2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[sp6r=underrated]

To make a side point, the conspiracy theorists are out in force with Luka. if the NBA really fixed games why are they allowing Cleveland/OKC to build dominant teams?

Neither team has actually proven anything in the playoffs yet.

Why would the NBA allows the OKC/Cleveland to build up dominant RS teams? There is a strong correlation between RS play and PS play.

The Spurs, who had little fans, excellent RS netted 5 titles, 6 finals appearances and 10 WCF appearances over 20 yrs. The NBA is seemingly risking the same outcome here.If the NBA fixes things why run the risk here? Force OKC to trade away SGA and force Presti to leave OKC.

What makes conspiracy theorists annoying is nothing can disprove the conspiracy.

The Knicks being the worst professional sports team in North America for decades didn't disprove the conspiracy. The Spurs having one of the great runs in NBA history didn't disprove the conspiracy.

In 2014 to 18, the Lakers had the worst record and the knicks the 4th worse record and that didn't disprove the conspiracy.

My take is most of the conspiracy theorists really don't believe in the conspiracy theory. Instead they are angry the Lakers have a competitive advantage.

Players are entertainers and entertainers want to live in Los Angeles. Due to strong management during the West years and terrible Clippers ownership, the Lakers built up a national brand and annexed almost the entire SoCal market. Those 2 facts give the Lakers a modest advantage over the other 3 mega-market teams and a real advantage over everyone else.

If they limited their complaints to that it would be tolerable. Even if I disagree that this is unfair, they are complaining about something that is real.

Instead they have to go further and invent a shadowy conspiracy when the evidence is overwhelming there is none.

1. The NY teams are dreadful this century.
2. The Clippers were a joke for most of their history in LA.
3. A very small market franchise has the best RS record this century and the 2nd best PS record this century.

[Doctor MJ]

Last i remember we have the #1 offense since january 1 (and top 1 defense over the whole year, included since january 1)

The team is incredible.

I'm still afraid in the playoffs going against a good defense with a smart coach, that it might let them down. Trust me as a fan of the 07 Mavs I understand all too well what can happen...

I could be wrong and they could blitz through and go 16-3 or something. But I worry.

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

[Special_Puppy]

What do you guys think of the Grizzlies' odds of winning it all?

[sp6r=underrated]

People are focusing on AD's injury history and with him already going down that will be the focus. Under-discussed is how aggressive Davis was in expressing his discontent playing for New Orleans and openly having an "LA only" mindset.

I'd love to know whether Dallas Ownership/Nico considered that history in making this trade. Did they ignore it or did they assume that because AD is on the waydown he won't have the leverage to push around Dallas the way he did NO?

If it was the former it makes them look even more amateurish than they already do. If it is the later it shows how little they think of Luka.

[penbeast0]

To make a side point, the conspiracy theorists are out in force with Luka. if the NBA really fixed games why are they allowing Cleveland/OKC to build dominant teams?

It's a conspiracy led by the shadowy big money interests to build Cleveland and OKC into the two dominant American cities despite their having two of the worst climates of any city. In 50 years, it won't be NY and LA, it will be Cleveland and OKC dominating all facets of American life.

Of course, by then no one will care because India, China, and Indonesia will be running the world and Europe and North America will be afterthoughts.

[CKRT]

To make a side point, the conspiracy theorists are out in force with Luka. if the NBA really fixed games why are they allowing Cleveland/OKC to build dominant teams?

It's a conspiracy led by the shadowy big money interests to build Cleveland and OKC into the two dominant American cities despite their having two of the worst climates of any city. In 50 years, it won't be NY and LA, it will be Cleveland and OKC dominating all facets of American life.

As a former Okie, the climate isn't that bad. It's a more uncomfortable average midwest city summer and a more comfortable average midwest city winter.

OKC is also one of the most car dependent cities in the world because of the insane sprawl. I know you're making jokes, but OKC is going to be an interesting city to see down the line because the city can't afford to maintain their existing roads, the sprawl is still actively spreading/developing, and the residents lean heavily republican for a city so they won't approve additional taxes to help maintain roads.

[falcolombardi]

Last i remember we have the #1 offense since january 1 (and top 1 defense over the whole year, included since january 1)

The team is incredible.

I'm still afraid in the playoffs going against a good defense with a smart coach, that it might let them down. Trust me as a fan of the 07 Mavs I understand all too well what can happen...

I could be wrong and they could blitz through and go 16-3 or something. But I worry.

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

If people told me they have doubts about okc offense becauae it struggled last year i would find it understandable and a obvious concern to have, but doubting okc -defense- is what is puzzling me

[Special_Puppy]

The team is incredible.

I'm still afraid in the playoffs going against a good defense with a smart coach, that it might let them down. Trust me as a fan of the 07 Mavs I understand all too well what can happen...

I could be wrong and they could blitz through and go 16-3 or something. But I worry.

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

Which team in the West do you think is the most likely to “upset” OKC in your view?

[falcolombardi]

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

Which team in the West do you think is the most likely to “upset” OKC in your view?

Unironically lakers if they get a decent rim protector, at least a bit more so than denver imo

Playing 2 big wings together actually puts some interestibg matchup problems for us defensively (that i still think okc could handle ideally) because we are thinner at the wing and have players who are long but not heavy/built like tanks (jalen and specially dort aside)

and they have the most firepower if luka and lebron are both 100%

[Special_Puppy]

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

Which team in the West do you think is the most likely to “upset” OKC in your view?

Unironically lakers if they get a decent rim protector, at least a bit more so than denver imo

Playing 2 big wings together actually puts some interestibg matchup problems for us defensively (that i still think okc could handle ideally) because we are thinner at the wing and have players who are long but not heavy/built like tanks (jalen and specially dort aside)

and they have the most firepower if luka and lebron are both 100%

What about the Grizzlies?

[falcolombardi]

Which team in the West do you think is the most likely to “upset” OKC in your view?

Unironically lakers if they get a decent rim protector, at least a bit more so than denver imo

Playing 2 big wings together actually puts some interestibg matchup problems for us defensively (that i still think okc could handle ideally) because we are thinner at the wing and have players who are long but not heavy/built like tanks (jalen and specially dort aside)

and they have the most firepower if luka and lebron are both 100%

What about the Grizzlies?

Lack the X factor denver (jokic) or lakers (LeLuka) have to even thinghs up as a underdog

We are better defensively (and are well equipped to guard morant ) and have the better lead offense star

[itsxtray]

To make a side point, the conspiracy theorists are out in force with Luka. if the NBA really fixed games why are they allowing Cleveland/OKC to build dominant teams?

It's a conspiracy led by the shadowy big money interests to build Cleveland and OKC into the two dominant American cities despite their having two of the worst climates of any city. In 50 years, it won't be NY and LA, it will be Cleveland and OKC dominating all facets of American life.

As a former Okie, the climate isn't that bad. It's a more uncomfortable average midwest city summer and a more comfortable average midwest city winter.

OKC is also one of the most car dependent cities in the world because of the insane sprawl. I know you're making jokes, but OKC is going to be an interesting city to see down the line because the city can't afford to maintain their existing roads, the sprawl is still actively spreading/developing, and the residents lean heavily republican for a city so they won't approve additional taxes to help maintain roads.

Everyone should check out not just bikes, dude has an insightful channel:

Watch on YouTube

[Doctor MJ]

The team is incredible.

I'm still afraid in the playoffs going against a good defense with a smart coach, that it might let them down. Trust me as a fan of the 07 Mavs I understand all too well what can happen...

I could be wrong and they could blitz through and go 16-3 or something. But I worry.

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

If people told me they have doubts about okc offense becauae it struggled last year i would find it understandable and a obvious concern to have, but doubting okc -defense- is what is puzzling me

Good post. Not going to say I'm picking Denver or anyone else over a healthy OKC team, but their success to this point has been about playing a radical defense with smaller guys, and I'm skeptical they'll really be able to play the same way against a star with serious mass. Certainly the hope has to be that IHart can stand up to Jokic because KAT & Gobert are both much more like IHart in sturdiness than Chet.

[falcolombardi]

Yeah for me the thing is that I'm not at all cynical about OKC being able to be a champion, but at this point they might still have a real match-up issue against teams that dominate with size. It won't shock me, for example, if the Thunder lose to the Nuggets if Jokic can just dominate the interior.

In the longer term though, presuming Chet can be in good health as he ages and gets his man mass, to say nothing of IHart, I don't see it as a fundamental vulnerability.

(Of course if Chet ends up not able to stay healthy, I expect lack of size will be a chronic problem for the team.)

Not saying that denver is not a threat, they are on fire currently and have jokic after all so if they catch fire offensively they have a good shot. But i am a bit perplexed they are the team picked as a "favorite" to upset current okc

Mainly because the team to take them down last year (wolves) basically played a similar version of what mark daigneaukt likely would do vs denver

Put a sturdy center on jokic (towns/harstentein), use your lankier/super long center in a secondary rim protection role (gobert/chet) and use your unit of elite defensive guards and long wing defenders to cut passing lanes, double jokic and recover and chase nuggets cutting players across the court

In fact, they are probably better equipped to do this/a better defensive team than minnesota so they should be a even bigger challenge to jokic and mike malone to solve

In the other end, just like with minnesota, they have the ability to use two centers together without compromising their offense thanks to their center shooting (towns/chet) and have a all nba guard to exploit jokic drop defense (shai/ant)

People also remember last year version of okc being "destroyed" by dallas size (in a close 6 game series where both teams scored exactly the same total points), and forget lost mainly in the offensive end (where dallas defense was a lot tougher that currently below league average denver)

The offensive rebounding from dallas helped them to win, but it was only because it made up for how well okc limited kyrie and (an admittedly not 100%) luka.okc defense still held dallas to a low scoring series

and that was a weaker defense than current okc, without harstentein (okc notoriously suffered when chet sat yet won the holgrem minutes) that had exploitable weak links like giddey for dallas to attack in the first games.

If people told me they have doubts about okc offense becauae it struggled last year i would find it understandable and a obvious concern to have, but doubting okc -defense- is what is puzzling me

Good post. Not going to say I'm picking Denver or anyone else over a healthy OKC team, but their success to this point has been about playing a radical defense with smaller guys, and I'm skeptical they'll really be able to play the same way against a star with serious mass. Certainly the hope has to be that IHart can stand up to Jokic because KAT & Gobert are both much more like IHart in sturdiness than Chet.

Not saying okc doesnt have weaknesses that could be exploited or lead to a loss, almost by definition teams lose because they had weaknesses compared to rivals, otherwise they never would lose

I am just a bit confused people are now saying that a "smaller" (and reminder no other team in the playoffs is going to play 2 shot blocking 7 footers together or have as much lenght across the court) is such a fatal flaw.

It is starting to remind me of 2015 warriors and "no jumpshooting team would win a ring"

[Special_Puppy]

Sixers need to abandon this season and go all to save their pick. They should only aim to only 5 games for the rest of the season

[itsxtray]

Sixers need to abandon this season and go all to save their pick. They should only aim to only 5 games for the rest of the season

Yeah, they're being dumb. Morey said they still feel like they can make a run, but with the way Embiid looks, I doubt it. They should shut him down and get him his surgery right now so he can recover and be ready for next season. Why waste these next two months?

[MartinToVaught]

Sixers need to abandon this season and go all to save their pick. They should only aim to only 5 games for the rest of the season

I knew the PG hate watch would be something special, but it's been beyond even my wildest expectations. Only 2 points all game against a tanking Nets team, looking like the worst player on what's functionally a G-League roster. Tobias Harris can legitimately say "Paul George over me?" And after all the victory laps he did on his podcast about "leaving the B-Team," he's an afterthought in his own city now with the Eagles winning the Super Bowl and the Phillies' pitchers and catchers reporting yesterday.

I'd almost feel bad for him, but he's become such an unlikeable diva and excuse-maker while doing nothing of note since he left the Pacers. He's brought it on himself.

[Texas Chuck]

Not saying okc doesnt have weaknesses that could be exploited or lead to a loss, almost by definition teams lose because they had weaknesses compared to rivals, otherwise they never would lose

I am just a bit confused people are now saying that a "smaller" (and reminder no other team in the playoffs is going to play 2 shot blocking 7 footers together or have as much lenght across the court) is such a fatal flaw.

It is starting to remind me of 2015 warriors and "no jumpshooting team would win a ring"

Dallas might not make the playoffs. And they currently are playing two inexperienced 6'8" guys as literally the only bigs. But...

there is still very much a scenario where Dallas makes the playoffs as the 8th seed, gets both AD and Lively back and now has even more big wings to boot. And this after Dallas has won the season series without most of that even entering into the equation.

OKC would, and should, be a heavy paper favorite over an 8th seeded Dallas. But boy that cannot be a matchup they want, even with Luka in LA. Even with Chet and Hart healthy and playing.

Fabulous team, but not impervious. Again, maybe its just my nightmares but the 06-07 Mavs went 67-11 against every team not named the Warriors and 2-8 against them. And they had a huge net rating and were top 5 at both ends and had an MVP.

But had a matchup that was horrible for them and got it.

And it requires no false narratives about what teams can and cannot win a title.

[itsxtray]

Not saying okc doesnt have weaknesses that could be exploited or lead to a loss, almost by definition teams lose because they had weaknesses compared to rivals, otherwise they never would lose

I am just a bit confused people are now saying that a "smaller" (and reminder no other team in the playoffs is going to play 2 shot blocking 7 footers together or have as much lenght across the court) is such a fatal flaw.

It is starting to remind me of 2015 warriors and "no jumpshooting team would win a ring"

Dallas might not make the playoffs. And they currently are playing two inexperienced 6'8" guys as literally the only bigs. But...

there is still very much a scenario where Dallas makes the playoffs as the 8th seed, gets both AD and Lively back and now has even more big wings to boot. And this after Dallas has won the season series without most of that even entering into the equation.

OKC would, and should, be a heavy paper favorite over an 8th seeded Dallas. But boy that cannot be a matchup they want, even with Luka in LA. Even with Chet and Hart healthy and playing.

Fabulous team, but not impervious. Again, maybe its just my nightmares but the 06-07 Mavs went 67-11 against every team not named the Warriors and 2-8 against them. And they had a huge net rating and were top 5 at both ends and had an MVP.

But had a matchup that was horrible for them and got it.

And it requires no false narratives about what teams can and cannot win a title.

I wrote a MySpace post on my youth pastor's wall about how there was no way the Warriors could beat the Mavericks. This was in SoCal, and he was the only Warriors fan I knew. He gloated for months—lol, good times.

[jalengreen]

Dunno exactly what impact the move will end up having (how much it moves the needle), but regardless, I’m glad the Warriors made the move for Butler. It was becoming pretty frustrating to watch them play, would’ve sucked if they just rode it out with that incredibly mediocre team.