The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 7)

[nzahir]

Lakers achillies heel are elite shot creators, heat don't have one.

They have a very balanced team but I got LA in 5 but I could see it go 6.

Butler, Dragic, and even Herro aren't shot creators?

But they do not have a true superstar imo and that may be the big difference

Butler and Bam are too up and down on offense

We will try to get Dragic, Robinson, and Herro in foul trouble by going at them constantly

Bam will also have his hands full with AD and our bigs. If he gets in foul trouble, who is even left to guard the rim?

[D.Brasco]

Herro is a rookie so he can't be expected to have any or many more 37 point nights. He needs to be watched but he doesn't need a whole game plan around him yet.

[xb3at band1tx]

Lakers achillies heel are elite shot creators, heat don't have one.

They have a very balanced team but I got LA in 5 but I could see it go 6.

Butler, Dragic, and even Herro aren't shot creators?

But they do not have a true superstar imo and that may be the big difference

Butler and Bam are too up and down on offense

We will try to get Dragic, Robinson, and Herro in foul trouble by going at them constantly

They are good shot creators but I meant guys like Harden, Murray, Dame, and hell even Jokic as in true elite scorers who LA's role guys could never really pin down individually.

[Ursusamericanus]

Lakers in 5.

Already explained my reasoning on the GB but IMO it comes down to Bam being overwhelmed/outmuscled by AD/Dwight/Javale, Bron simply outmatching Buckets in every facet of the game, Rondo's ability to dissect zone defense, and LA's swarming defenders putting the clamps on the Miami shooters. Also, LA has simply been on one since Kobe's death. Nothing will stop them. Literally since I found out the Mamba died, I've known they're winning it all.

With that said, I do want Danny Green to step up more. He has underwhelmed me the entire season. I know his 3FG% in the PO has been ok (.364), but not deadshot level, and I know he can do better. If he can hit a couple of those looks each game in the finals, that'd be great. Defenses do still respect his range and he has value in that sense because he opens up the floor for the other guys. KCP has been a better shooter than him in the PO (.421) - which is fine - but I know the Green Ranger can contribute. So Danny, if you're reading this: I believe in you. Please be the 3-and-D guy we know you can be.

[nzahir]

Lakers achillies heel are elite shot creators, heat don't have one.

They have a very balanced team but I got LA in 5 but I could see it go 6.

Butler, Dragic, and even Herro aren't shot creators?

But they do not have a true superstar imo and that may be the big difference

Butler and Bam are too up and down on offense

We will try to get Dragic, Robinson, and Herro in foul trouble by going at them constantly

They are good shot creators but I meant guys like Harden, Murray, Dame, and hell even Jokic as in true elite scorers who LA's role guys could never really pin down individually.

Yes, they do not have someone on that level

But for Hou and Portland, we would make the non shot creators shoot it or create. Even a bit for Denver

Are we going to let guys like Robinson, Dragic, and Herro get good shots? Miami is the best or 2nd best 3 point shooting team.

But there are times when their shooting can also be not so good if they are playing Jimmy, Bam, Crowder, and another not so good shooter like Jones, Hill, Nunn, Iggy

[xb3at band1tx]

Butler, Dragic, and even Herro aren't shot creators?

But they do not have a true superstar imo and that may be the big difference

Butler and Bam are too up and down on offense

We will try to get Dragic, Robinson, and Herro in foul trouble by going at them constantly

They are good shot creators but I meant guys like Harden, Murray, Dame, and hell even Jokic as in true elite scorers who LA's role guys could never really pin down individually.

Yes, they do not have someone on that level

But for Hou and Portland, we would make the non shot creators shoot it or create. Even a bit for Denver

Are we going to let guys like Robinson, Dragic, and Herro get good shots? Miami is the best or 2nd best 3 point shooting team.

But there are times when their shooting can also be not so good if they are playing Jimmy, Bam, Crowder, and another not so good shooter like Jones, Hill, Nunn, Iggy

If I'm the Lakers, I try to get Bam in foul trouble as fast as possible. He's there only real big guy and if you can nullify his presence, it could get ugly for Miami. Easier said than done of course, but Davis and Dwight are smart defenders and it'll be night and day for Bam after facing Kanter and Theis.

Herro and Robinson are super confident shooters, but I think LA can guard them with more success then they did with Murray. Atleast with Herro, KCP and Caruso, in particular, could match his speed when he's running off-ball and they both have size (or same size as him)

[Heej]

Caruso is gonna clamp Tyler Herro. GB has no idea what's coming for them. Once the Lakers obliterate their zone, Lebrons just gonna bum hunt Herro and Robinson. Robinson got b****ed by Marcus Smart in the post, LeBron might legitimately make him cry after one of the games.

[Heej]

All this talk about Miami having a better 3-8. How sure are we? Lakers have a bunch of very good 2-way 3&D role players. This is gonna be the ultimate test on my theory that being a jack of all trades with no weaknesses is better than a master of one. The Heat have 2 supremely exploitable role players in Robinson and Herro (who's a little better than Robinson imo) while the Lakers role players are serviceable on both ends. Dwight and Caruso are the weakest offensive role players but they contribute on the ORebs and Transition respectively. I think there's no one to truly exploit on the Lakers for the Heat the way Jokic had his pick of the litter to kill. The fact that the Heat have pronounced weak spots is gonna matter a lot more and I think our role players will come out looking much better in the 3-8 matchup than people think.

[Ursusamericanus]

All this talk about Miami having a better 3-8. How sure are we? Lakers have a bunch of very good 2-way 3&D role players. This is gonna be the ultimate test on my theory that being a jack of all trades with no weaknesses is better than a master of one. The Heat have 2 supremely exploitable role players in Robinson and Herro (who's a little better than Robinson imo) while the Lakers role players are serviceable on both ends. Dwight and Caruso are the weakest offensive role players but they contribute on the ORebs and Transition respectively. I think there's no one to truly exploit on the Lakers for the Heat the way Jokic had his pick of the litter to kill. The fact that the Heat have pronounced weak spots is gonna matter a lot more and I think our role players will come out looking much better in the 3-8 matchup than people think.

To be honest, I find people have been **** on the Lakers supporting cast far too much all year. As you said, the Lakers have a lot of solid two-way guys. They're underrated. And the way Rondo and Dwight have stepped up is more than enough to finish off Miami IMO. Caruso hustles so hard and has such a knack for getting in the passing lanes and finishes well in transition. KCP has stepped up as a long range threat. Danny G and Kuzma of course could play better. But the Lakers have plenty of options with range and scrappy defense. Almost any of them can go off for 15-20 on any given night and that's what makes them dangerous and unpredictable for the opponents.

So yeah, I find the "Lakers role players are weak" schtick to be massively overblown. But hey... let the clowns keep underestimating them.

[nzahir]

All this talk about Miami having a better 3-8. How sure are we? Lakers have a bunch of very good 2-way 3&D role players. This is gonna be the ultimate test on my theory that being a jack of all trades with no weaknesses is better than a master of one. The Heat have 2 supremely exploitable role players in Robinson and Herro (who's a little better than Robinson imo) while the Lakers role players are serviceable on both ends. Dwight and Caruso are the weakest offensive role players but they contribute on the ORebs and Transition respectively. I think there's no one to truly exploit on the Lakers for the Heat the way Jokic had his pick of the litter to kill. The fact that the Heat have pronounced weak spots is gonna matter a lot more and I think our role players will come out looking much better in the 3-8 matchup than people think.

Tbf, their 3-8 is probably better than ours, no? Lets add a couple more guys to go 3-10 though

Dragic, Herro, Robinson, Iggy, Crowder, Nunn, and Olynk/Leonard vs KCP, Caruso, Dwight, Green, Rondo, Kuzma, and Kieff

They have the best player in Dragic and the best shooters

When we hit our 3s at a respectable rate, then I think our role guys are good enough to beat Miami easily, so around 5 games

AD and Bron>>>Bam and Butler though

[Heej]

All this talk about Miami having a better 3-8. How sure are we? Lakers have a bunch of very good 2-way 3&D role players. This is gonna be the ultimate test on my theory that being a jack of all trades with no weaknesses is better than a master of one. The Heat have 2 supremely exploitable role players in Robinson and Herro (who's a little better than Robinson imo) while the Lakers role players are serviceable on both ends. Dwight and Caruso are the weakest offensive role players but they contribute on the ORebs and Transition respectively. I think there's no one to truly exploit on the Lakers for the Heat the way Jokic had his pick of the litter to kill. The fact that the Heat have pronounced weak spots is gonna matter a lot more and I think our role players will come out looking much better in the 3-8 matchup than people think.

Tbf, their 3-8 is probably better than ours, no? Lets add a couple more guys to go 3-10 though

Dragic, Herro, Robinson, Iggy, Crowder, Nunn, and Olynk/Leonard vs KCP, Caruso, Dwight, Green, Rondo, Kuzma, and Kieff

They have the best player in Dragic and the best shooters

When we hit our 3s at a respectable rate, then I think our role guys are good enough to beat Miami easily, so around 5 games

AD and Bron>>>Bam and Butler though

I think in aggregate they got it. But people make it sound like Miami has players 3-8 in the series while we have 9-16. It's probably much more mixed than people think. Like KCP as a role player is probably better than everyone on Miami except for Dragic and maybe Herro you know what I mean? Like there's a lotta guys the Lakers have that are in the same tier. Dragic might be the only role player that completely outclasses our guys, and even rondo will have nights where he somewhat matches him.

[xb3at band1tx]

All this talk about Miami having a better 3-8. How sure are we? Lakers have a bunch of very good 2-way 3&D role players. This is gonna be the ultimate test on my theory that being a jack of all trades with no weaknesses is better than a master of one. The Heat have 2 supremely exploitable role players in Robinson and Herro (who's a little better than Robinson imo) while the Lakers role players are serviceable on both ends. Dwight and Caruso are the weakest offensive role players but they contribute on the ORebs and Transition respectively. I think there's no one to truly exploit on the Lakers for the Heat the way Jokic had his pick of the litter to kill. The fact that the Heat have pronounced weak spots is gonna matter a lot more and I think our role players will come out looking much better in the 3-8 matchup than people think.

Yeah, I need to see the Heat when the pressure is on and Lakers start taking things away from them.

Especially if they can mess with Bam.

[Baski]

Well right, but who is this "everybody else"?

Wade? We knew his body likely wouldn't hold up because of the way he played.
Melo? Not smart enough to learn evergreen skills to make up for physical short-comings.
Bosh? Freak health condition.
Howard? See Melo and multiply by farts.

Meanwhile Chris Paul, aka "the smart one"? Holding up pretty damn well. He's degraded further than LeBron specifically because at his size explosiveness is more important.

It's certainly no question that LeBron's longevity in general is incredibly impressive, it's really just a question of whether we can explain it with an answer other than "He's just built more solidly than everybody else."

Yeah exactly everybody. Throw in Curry's ankles early on and general fragility that makes him miss entire series, KD and the achilles, AD and his in-game injuries, Westbrook, Embiid, Luka in his 2nd year already, Zion as a rookie, Dame and that issue with his ribs etc. And this is just players who are younger than him. You add Kobe, KG, Duncan, VC and co and the list gets too long.

You can point to any number of "non-natural" reasons for why they're all under some form of rehab/decline, but the telling thing to me is that those things simply haven't happened to Lebron. Murphy's Law can only avoid one guy for so long. And it's not like he's at low risk for injuries. We've seen him land awkwardly on layups/dunks, seen him roll his ankle numerous times, there's zero chance he has never ever landed on someone's foot after a jumpshot, he probably places his joints under more stress than anyone but Zion, has logged more minutes than anyone ever at his age, etc. It's hard to justify all of that as just luck. Those things that set these guys off on a path of nagging injuries and the related decline just haven't happened to Lebron, and I doubt he's gone to greater lengths than they have to avoid them.

Yeah I think there's more to it than him being built like a tree trunk, but it's only slightly more. My money's on Lebron's longevity being as freakish 20 years from now as it is today.

[JVL]

I love this matchup but the Heat don't have an answer for the size of the Lakers and won't get hot from 3 to claim 4 wins.

LA in 6.

Lebron vs. Jimmy should be fun.

[Baski]

How do we know LeBron's not just built different mentally? Like I remember reading a biography about Larry Legend when I was young, and one of the things that has stuck with me my entire life is that when you look at where he was born and brought up and the situations he was raised in, there's almost no way that Larry could've grown up not being racist that can't get along with black people. But somehow he did. And from the authors point of view he was just made of sterner stuff than almost every other human. He was literally just built different mentally to be able to block out that kind of environment and truly see into who people are beyond the color of their skin.

There's just something different about LeBron's mental fortitude and constitution. The same way in the Jordan documentary The Last Dance one of the most profound points to me was that Jordan was a master of constantly being present in the moment. It just came naturally to him to not dwell in the past or ruminate about the future. He just existed in his flow state constantly. There are people who are naturally wired like that, I've heard stories of people that are extremely calm most of the time having tests run on them and finding that they naturally just have brainwave patterns similar to Buddhist monks.

LeBron might just be one of those mental anomalies. His durability must be partly born from extremely good stress management practices that minimize inflammation, and probably a great deal of natural visualization of his body state that he imprints on the world. His longevity and ability to improve the longer he goes, whether it be in a series or his career, is almost superhuman.

He's certainly a physical marvel but there's something else there about his mental state that we'll probably only get a real grasp of once the in-depth career retrospective comes out. There are insane stories of people doing stuff all around the world when they focus their mind on it, this guy must be an adept at controlling whatever energy or consciousness field effect is being manipulated, and then honed his techniques to a razor sharp precision on maximizing his basketball career. Maybe he's just the basketball Wym Hoff

Plus one on the Bird point. Bird's mindset was incredibly pure both on and off the court. Imagine telling your rival not to get too buddy buddy with you after introducing him to your mum. Revelling in his failure but still being the first to call him when he announced he had AIDS.

I think it applies less to Lebron though. We've seen him show incredible focus, but we've also kind of seen him get distracted in ways we can't imagine Bird (could be from lack of footage) and Jordan be.
With Lebron I think he actively built up his mental state to what you're talking about now, compared to what MJ, Kobe and Bird seemed to have from day 1.

[Baski]

You know what? I'm finally done doubting this guy. Dumbest thing I did this year.
Next season if he has a dud 4th quarter and I come in here bitching like a worried parent somebody please please tell me to shut the hell up and wait for the POs.

What the hell is this guy made of?


This is how I picture Lebron haters right now:

I’ve been saying it every single year since this whole “he’s done” narrative has been appearing annually:

He’s the best player in the world until proven otherwise when it matters.

And last year doesn’t count; the reason has been endlessly repeated so I hope I don’t have to repeat it again.

I'm completely sold on that now. I made the mistake of thinking he's human. Done with that mess now. Gonna ride this L-train till the wheels run off, and even when he's 55 I'm gonna be among those saying he could still win the MVP of that year if he came back from retirement.

[Freighttrain]

The heat can send multiple bodies to LeBron though with Butler, Iggy and Crowder. I can see LeBron having to work harder than all of the previous series. The heat also play zone so it's hard to switch the mismatch like with Denver. Spo will build that wall for sure to stop LeBron. It's gonna be all about making cuts, like Caruso & Kuzma do so well, and being able to be decent enough on three so the Heatles respect our shooters. This is going 6.

[Baski]

Ima make it simple for y’all.

What Bam does, I do better.
What Jimmy does, Bron does better.
They run zone, Bron and Doe will shred it to pieces.
Kuz will show out against Herro against his old side piece.
Crowder is the what, 100th Bron stopper now? Iggy had a tough time a few years back and he’s older now.

Bron is motivated like you don’t even know....That trophy is coming back to Staples. Book it

AD is the kind of guy I'd enjoy watching a game with more than I would watching him play.

Good luck man. You guys got this.

[kayess]

The heat can send multiple bodies to LeBron though with Butler, Iggy and Crowder. I can see LeBron having to work harder than all of the previous series. The heat also play zone so it's hard to switch the mismatch like with Denver. Spo will build that wall for sure to stop LeBron. It's gonna be all about making cuts, like Caruso & Kuzma do so well, and being able to be decent enough on three so the Heatles respect our shooters. This is going 6.

I mean the Lakers already beat the Heat's zone earlier. The role players are better now and LeBron/AD look fully engaged.

Caruso and Kuzma (and Green) being good-great cutters will also help in this regard. They've gotten a lot of free buckets that way, which is a great.

And when they switch off the zone, I suspect we'll finally start seeing the Bron/AD 1-5 PNR again. There's zero defense against that if they're hitting their jumpers (LeBron pls)

[JulesWinnfield]

I don’t think anyone views Boston as the more historic franchise than the Lakers even with one more ring, given how frontloaded all their titles were... I mean I’m pushing 40 and I can remember one Celtics title in my conscious basketball fan life. But once the Lakers get this done and tie Boston it becomes totally unarguable. Same number of chips, only far more spread out and not so front loaded like Boston who won basically half of them before JFK got shot. 11 more finals appearances. A greater/deeper list of historic players. The Lakers are about to put their flag in the ground and claim GOAT franchise status without pushback