The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2)

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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1181 » by nikomCH » Thu May 23, 2013 7:10 pm

CJ_18 wrote:
colts18 wrote:
CJ_18 wrote:Sideshow is -2.3 or -7.0 the stronger defense? Can you give me a brief explanation of what that number means please?

-7 is better for defense. +7 would be better for offense. -7.0 means that the defense he faced was 7 was points per 100 possessions below the league average of points per 100 possessions allowed. For example if the league allows 105 points per 100 possessions, a defense that allows 98 points per 100 possessions is a -7.0 defense. On the flipside, an offense is better with a higher positive number


Thank you. I wasn't sure because that 07 Pistons team had the lowest number and the pistons during those years were really good defensive teams.


The 07 Pistons had the highest number. Those are negative values because it's referring to points under the league average. So the 07 Pistons were by far the worst defensive team in that group.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1182 » by TheChosen618 » Fri May 24, 2013 4:30 am

Ranking Lebron's 5 best seasons as of now...

1. 2012 Lebron
2. 2013 Lebron
3. 2009 Lebron
4. 2010 Lebron
5. 2011 Lebron

Things can change especially with 2 more possible rounds left.

I like 2012 Lebron more than 2013 Lebron.

Ability wise, I would say 2013 Lebron is better, but it's the relentless effort and aggressiveness that makes me favor 2012 Lebron over 2013 Lebron at the moment. As I stated in another thread, I couldn't careless if a player has the ability to do something but doesn't do it.

Lebron played incredibly hard in the post-season last season and it shows with his rebound total. He averaged 10+ rpg as soon as he was inserted to that PF spot. Lebron so far in this 2013 post-season is averaging a career low in RPG.

The other thing I like about 2012 Lebron over 2013 Lebron is the post-game. Lebron so far in this post-season has not gone to it at all. The post-game is actually what made me favor 2012 Lebron over 2009 Lebron. I doubt Lebron has lost his ability to post up, but I dislike the fact that he has hardly gone to it so far this post-season.

I think one could say fatigue is starting to play a role and it is why Lebron has been somewhat underwhelming so far in this post-season. 2012, he had to play in that condensed schedule. Then during the off-season he had to play for the 2012 Olympics. While this might be the case, I still can't excuse him for it.

Things can change and I really hope they do, but as of now I'm going with 2012 Lebron over 2013 Lebron.

Truthfully, I think 2014 Lebron will be the absolute peak of his though.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1183 » by JulesWinnfield » Fri May 24, 2013 5:12 am

If Miami does what we expect and repeats, and Lebron wins Finals MVP as he inevitably will if they win the title, he'll join MJ as the only other guy to win back to back MVP + Finals MVP, which he did in 91 and 92 (Both players will have also won a gold medal during that span). They didn't start naming Finals MVPs until 1969, and if they did Russell would have almost certainly done it 3 straight times between 61 and 63.

7 wins from a pretty impressive piece of history. You basically can't own the league to any greater extent in a two year span if he closes this out. A span that now also includes leading a 46-3 record over 49 games (with one of the losses being a game he sat out). He has also won player of the month in 7 of a possible 10 months. As far as two year runs go, 2012-2013 Lebron is on basketball mount rushmore if he wins this
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1184 » by toodles23 » Fri May 24, 2013 6:40 am

SideshowBob wrote:
colts18 wrote:Am I the only one who notices that after Pacers FT's, LeBron is always the last guy to make it past halfcourt? He isn't on the screen until like 15 seconds left on the shot clock. I'm pretty sure its not good for the Heat offense for LeBron to be lazily jogging up the floor while the rest of the team is playing offense. It might have to do with him being fatigued.


Nope, I noticed that all night as well. He was only entering the frame halfway through the shot clock, and yeah, that certainly isn't good for the Heat offense, because he's not sucking defensive attention off the ball with his positioning/movement.

Which brings up a point that toodles brought up a few months back. This is the 17th straight month of basketball, and that includes a lockout condensed 4.5 months from last year. Fatigue may be a reasonable issue, it also may not be an issue at all, but its feasible as to why it may be an issue. An off season where he's actually "off" (like the one that's coming up) might do wonders for him if that's the case.

I definitely think fatigue is the biggest reason for his lackluster (for Lebron) boxscore output in the playoffs. Seems to explain his relatively poor finishing at the hoop, as well as his passiveness during stretches of games, he seemed fatigued late in the 4th/OT in game 1. It also doesn't look like he has the same spring in his step that he had earlier in the year - has anybody else noticed that, or is it just me?

I agree that this is his best season so far though, the only year being debateably better to me is '09. I think '14 will end up being his peak, having an actual offseason to rest and work on his game will help a lot, that might be the year he ends up looking at his best physically as a member of the Heat. Next year seems like the last possible year he could peak though, it's pretty hard to imagine him peaking at 30+ - the only superstars in history who peaked that late (that I can think of) are Kareem ('77), Hakeem ('93 or '94), and Karl Malone ('97 or '98).
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1185 » by TheChosen618 » Fri May 24, 2013 6:43 am

toodles23 wrote:I agree that this is his best season so far though, the only year being debateably better to me is '09..

When accounting for his best season, do you account regular season more than you account post-season? How much emphasis would you put on post-season play? And do you think Lebron's 2013 post-season run is better than his 2012 one?
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1186 » by toodles23 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:10 am

TheChosen618 wrote:
toodles23 wrote:I agree that this is his best season so far though, the only year being debateably better to me is '09..

When accounting for his best season, do you account regular season more than you account post-season? How much emphasis would you put on post-season play? And do you think Lebron's 2013 post-season run is better than his 2012 one?

Postseason definitely matters more to me than regular season, though it's not by any predetermined amount, and I do think Lebron's been better in this year's playoffs than last year. He's getting more defensive attention this year which is a major reason for his decreased boxscore production, and nobody remembers it now, but he had similar stretches of passiveness in last year's playoffs. His defense is also better this year.

His big advantage last year over this year was his scoring volume, but per 36 minutes, he was only +3.5 ppg and did it on noticeably worse efficiency (-3.2 TS%), and Miami's offense has been better this postseason than last year (at least in terms of raw ORTG, and they're playing similar quality defenses, though I'm not sure what the adjusted ratings look like). Hard to look too much into the impact of his scoring volume if it was leading to worse results, and keep in mind, Wade was much better last year, as well as Chalmers and Battier, so I don't think his cast is playing any better this year.

His passing has been clearly better this year too, and it's showing up in his assist totals. He's been spoonfeeding easy baskets to his teammates all playoffs, much more often than last year. Amazingly, 8 of his assists yesterday were setting up teammates for dunks/layups, the other 2 being threes.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1187 » by TheChosen618 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:24 am

toodles23 wrote:Postseason definitely matters more to me than regular season, though it's not by any predetermined amount, and I do think Lebron's been better in this year's playoffs than last year. He's getting more defensive attention this year which is a major reason for his decreased boxscore production, and nobody remembers it now, but he had similar stretches of passiveness in last year's playoffs. His defense is also better this year.

Good point on the defensive attention part. Lebron is seeing more doubles and more zones/help/traps/etc. this post-season compared to last season especially in that Bulls series. In the 2012 Celtics series, he was essentially dared to score the ball over them although the Celtics decided to double Wade instead. That is not really a bad idea because that is like doubling Mchale rather than Bird. However, OKC did start to double Lebron at the end of the series and then Lebron dissected the hell out of that defense and he ended up with a triple double.

I can't agree with that defense part unless you are basing it more so on +/- numbers or help defense. I felt like his defense was better last post-season than this season. We saw him shut down Melo last post-season and play some pretty tremendous defense on Pierce, Granger, and on Durant (when they were matched up). Again, maybe I'm not focusing enough on his help defense and paying attention to his man defense a little too much.

The more impressive part about Lebron to me in 2012 as I stated in my post earlier was his rebounding. He averaged 10+ RPG in every series when he started playing PF. I consider rebounding to be part of defense since you can't end the opponent's offensive possession until you get the rebound.

I think part of why Lebron's rebounding total have fallen off is because of fatigue. It seemed like Lebron's rebound total has slowly declined throughout the regular season too. He was rebounding at an incredibly high rate earlier this season, but then it just slowly fell apart.

His big advantage last year over this year was his scoring volume, but per 36 minutes, he was only +3.5 ppg and did it on noticeably worse efficiency (-3.2 TS%), and Miami's offense has been better this postseason than last year (at least in terms of raw ORTG, and they're playing similar quality defenses, though I'm not sure what the adjusted ratings look like). Hard to look too much into the impact of his scoring volume if it was leading to worse results, and keep in mind, Wade was much better last year, as well as Chalmers and Battier, so I don't think his cast is playing any better this year.

What about the injury to Chris Bosh last season? Don't you think that may have affected the ORTG? Especially with Udonis Haslem and Joel Anthony being his replacement at Center. I think even the Birdman is a better replacement offensively than those two.

Bosh's ability to stretch the floor is huge.

It was shown last year in the Finals since he pulled Ibaka out of the paint and many of the shooters especially Shane Battier started going off. Personally, I don't think the Heat would have won had Bosh not been hurt and Lebron not been placed as the PF. Spo would have never thought about starting a front-court of Battier, Lebron, and Bosh.

It was a true blessing in disguise for the Heat
His passing has been clearly better this year too, and it's showing up in his assist totals. He's been spoonfeeding easy baskets to his teammates all playoffs, much more often than last year. Amazingly, 8 of his assists yesterday were setting up teammates for dunks/layups, the other 2 being threes.

True, he has been receiving great defensive attention and obviously he's a great passer so he'll find the holes in the defense.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1188 » by SideshowBob » Fri May 24, 2013 2:36 pm

ardee wrote:
SideshowBob wrote:

1. 2013 2nd half of RS
2. 2013 1st half of RS/ 2013 Playoffs
4. 2012 Playoffs (last 15 G)
5. 2012 RS - April
6. 2012 RS 1st half
7. 2012 Playoffs (first 8 G)
8. 2012 RS 2nd Half (minus April)


Sideshow, including 2009 and 2010?


1. 2013 2nd half of RS/09 Playoffs
2. 2013 1st half of RS/ 2013 Playoffs
3. 2010 2nd Half
4. 2010 1st Half/2009 2nd Half
5. 2012 Playoffs (last 15 G)
6. 2009 1st Half
7. 2012 RS - April
8. 2012 RS 1st half
9. 2012 Playoffs (first 8 G)
10. 2012 RS 2nd Half (minus April)
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1189 » by PCProductions » Fri May 24, 2013 6:58 pm

After rewatching the game on NBAtv, I didn't really notice how poorly Wade played down the stretch. He got stripped, caused unnecessary fouls etc. He needs to get it together if they wanna beat the Pacers as he was instrumental in the comeback last year. Either that or Bosh needs to rebound it more than twice.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1190 » by colts18 » Fri May 24, 2013 7:01 pm

PCProductions wrote:After rewatching the game on NBAtv, I didn't really notice how poorly Wade played down the stretch. He got stripped, caused unnecessary fouls etc. He needs to get it together if they wanna beat the Pacers as he was instrumental in the comeback last year. Either that or Bosh needs to rebound it more than twice.
Wade had one foul towards the end of the game that all I can describe it as is a frustration foul. He literally kept reaching in begging for the refs to call him for a foul. He has to be a little more subtle next time since that gave the Pacers FT's that could have cost the Heat the game.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1191 » by PCProductions » Fri May 24, 2013 7:04 pm

colts18 wrote:
PCProductions wrote:After rewatching the game on NBAtv, I didn't really notice how poorly Wade played down the stretch. He got stripped, caused unnecessary fouls etc. He needs to get it together if they wanna beat the Pacers as he was instrumental in the comeback last year. Either that or Bosh needs to rebound it more than twice.
Wade had one foul towards the end of the game that all I can describe it as is a frustration foul. He literally kept reaching in begging for the refs to call him for a foul. He has to be a little more subtle next time since that gave the Pacers FT's that could have cost the Heat the game.

Beyond that, though, he just fumbled the ball and didn't even pick up Cole's potential steal. These past 2 years have been rough for Wade and I think it's more than just injury.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1192 » by orangeparka » Sat May 25, 2013 3:28 am

Damn. Amazing game by Lebron in the second half, thought it'd be his first really amazing game... Until those two TOs.

Credit IND defense but sucks that he wasn't able to close it out.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1193 » by TheChosen618 » Sat May 25, 2013 3:36 am

He was pretty spectacular today aside from those costly turnovers. It's too bad his teammates are starting to play poorly at this time.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1194 » by NaturalThunder » Sat May 25, 2013 3:39 am

orangeparka wrote:Damn. Amazing game by Lebron in the second half, thought it'd be his first really amazing game... Until those two TOs.

Credit IND defense but sucks that he wasn't able to close it out.

I had something already typed up and ready to post after the game was over, and didn't know what to do after those two turnovers late in the game. On the second one, where he got into the lane and threw it away, I don't know why he didn't just elevate and shoot the ball?

But still, he was amazing tonight, and was aggressive from start to finish. He put up 36-8-3-3 on 14/20 shooting, playing 45 minutes against maybe the best defensive team in the league. The 5 turnovers against the 3 assists isn't good, and the 2 turnovers in the final minute were head-scratching, but he was still really, REALLY good tonight.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1195 » by E-Balla » Sat May 25, 2013 3:48 am

Finally was having a great game... And then two head scratchers (one was to an open man but you gotta take that to the rim) made it a good game.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1196 » by SideshowBob » Sat May 25, 2013 4:05 am

Lebron has played 26 ECF games. Here's the level of defense in those 5 series.

Spoiler:
2007 Pistons: -2.3 (6 G)
2009 Magic: -6.4 (6 G)
2011 Bulls: -7.0 (5 G)
2012 Celtics: -6.4 (7 G)
2013 Pacers: -6.1 (2 G)


Average: -5.5 (26 G)

In those 26 games

Code: Select all

MP    PTS    TRB    AST    TO    STL    BLK    TS%    ORTG    PER
45.4  31.3   9.2    6.6    3.7   1.8    1.1   .580    116     29.7


Excluding 2007: -6.5 (20 G)

Code: Select all

MP    PTS    TRB    AST    TO    STL    BLK    TS%    ORTG    PER
45.3  33.1   9.2    6.1    3.8   1.5    1.5   .591    117     30.6
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1197 » by orangeparka » Sat May 25, 2013 4:08 am

NaturalThunder wrote:
orangeparka wrote:Damn. Amazing game by Lebron in the second half, thought it'd be his first really amazing game... Until those two TOs.

Credit IND defense but sucks that he wasn't able to close it out.

I had something already typed up and ready to post after the game was over, and didn't know what to do after those two turnovers late in the game. On the second one, where he got into the lane and threw it away, I don't know why he didn't just elevate and shoot the ball?

But still, he was amazing tonight, and was aggressive from start to finish. He put up 36-8-3-3 on 14/20 shooting, playing 45 minutes against maybe the best defensive team in the league. The 5 turnovers against the 3 assists isn't good, and the 2 turnovers in the final minute were head-scratching, but he was still really, REALLY good tonight.


Me too, was ready to finally give him due praise in this thread. Ugh.

It's like a reverse of last game.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1198 » by WinisKing » Sat May 25, 2013 4:17 am

This loss could be a blessing in disguise for Lebron and the Heat. They need reestablish themselves under adversity, just like last year.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1199 » by therealbig3 » Sat May 25, 2013 4:28 am

This is pretty much exactly like last year...LeBron with big performances, but Wade and co. play like crap...the big difference though is that Bosh is playing this year, which I think is going to make a big difference.

But he's got to do a much better job of keeping Hibbert off the glass and getting rebounds, damn.
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Re: The Lebron Thread (Pt. 2) 

Post#1200 » by Rasho_libre » Sat May 25, 2013 4:55 am

He was nuts today issue with Miami seems to be when they build like a 4 point cusion or so. Stupid wade and chalmers start playing erratic. Chalmers needs to gtfo. I said he was gonna cost Miami a game and he did. Dude loses his man on d all the time.

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