Shaq/Wade vs. TD/Kobe

[Shaq Daddy]

honestly i don't know why you guys bother. shaq fans always seem to derail threads like this going way into left field. the op asked who would people take either kobe/duncan shaq/wade. what the hell does loyalty,kobe's rape accusation and phil have to do with anything? smh

It happens because when we read some of the nonsense that Kobe fans post as their justification to not choose Shaq, we feel the need to correct them. Then it always turns out to be Shaq vs. Kobe and their feud. But it starts when misinformed (or Kobe fans that are in denial) individuals post things like "Shaq won't be loyal", or "he'll feud with teammates". Becasue they can see the future, you know???

I never enter a thread with the intention of posting the things I do. I actually like to see the warped sense of realism that some people have by listening to them justify things by saying that they know better than the players and coaches themselves. It gives me happiness!

Im not a Kobe fan by any means. In fact im a huge Shaq fan. I also believe Shaq is the GCOAT. But every thing you have said so far is insanely idiotic and your attempts to bash Kobe are pathetic. Pulling out the rape trial as an argument is dumb, not to mention it was never proven to be true.

To call people who disagree with you "Kobe fans" makes your arguments invalid and puts you on the level of Andrewchos


OT I would pick Kobe and Duncan easily on this one because the gap between Kobe and Wade is bigger than Shaq and Duncan. Also longetivity favors Kobe/Duncan

[Shaq Daddy]

Shaq is my favorite player ever. I would take 2000 Shaq over 1991 Jordan. But I know Shaq has burned too many bridges with organizations for me to ever call him loyal.

[USA]

USA- are you really gonna make me go into the same old crap again?

Oh the irony.

But that would have gone AGAINST Phil's wishes. .

And what were Phil's wishes? Provide quotes with time frame and links.

Again, another Kobe fan claiming to know better than Phil Jackson as to what was best for the team! And another Kobe fan claiming that he knew better about Shaq than Shaq did!

Not a Kobe fan, just a Shaq hater. Kobe is just as big of a piece of ****, ego driven douchebag as Shaq is. The difference between us is that I see it and admit it and you don't. I provide plenty of quotes from Phil that counter many of your arguments but you only stick to the few that make Kobe look bad while making Shaq look good.

Why is it that you put 100% faith in Phil Jackson's comments when they agree with you, but you disregard his comments when they prove you wrong?

I don't, I take everyone's comments with a grain of salt but you love to quote Phil as reliable so I do the same since that is who you love to quote.

Shaq admitted he made a mistake. Has Kobe ever done so?

Maybe because Shaq had knew his treating of Kobe from the get go is what started all of this nonsense.
Actually, yes Kobe has so it seams Shaq isn't a better man than Kobe in this instance.

I have nothing against [Shaq]. I'd definitely love to sit down and talk with him. I don't know, maybe that'll happen. ... I never intended to involve him in my troubles. I'd apologize to him for that. ”
— Kobe Bryant

Hell, even after SHAQ made the effort to patch things up

Was that before or after the whole immature, 'Kobe how does my ass taste" rant?

You say Shaq wasn't the one willing to work with Buss? Wasn't it Buss that wasn't willing to pay Shaq 30 million? That sounds like Buss not being willing!

So you are saying Buss should of gave an over weight (Jerry Buss, Phil Jackson and even Pat Riley words), over the hill non first option, something he never was again, max extension just because Shaq asked for it? No questions asked? You are right, it is Buss's fault.

As for the infidelity, well, that came from Kobe.....As far as Arenas's wife, I'm sure that if there were something to it, it would have made national media.

Infidelity didn't come from Kobe. The are multiple reports of emails and texts between Shaq and different womem, including Arenas wife, all over the internet, while he was still married. You cna even read said emails and texts if you search. Shaunie O'Neal even said such, but I am sure Kobe has something to do with it.

[qm22]

I would take Shaq/Wade mainly because of Shaq.

I think Wade's partnership with Shaq was far more effective than Kobe's, considering Kobe had the prime Shaq. In Wade's 2nd year and Shaq's first year in Miami they were a major threat to win the title and go down in the ECF in 7 to the defending champs because 4/5 of their starting 5 had major injuries and Wade even sat a game out. In 2006 they demolished everyone.

Unfortunately those were the only two relevant years.

I always liked Wade > Kobe too. I think Wade's playoff record speaks for itself, though his time on contending teams is a lot less so there is not a in depth comparison available.

But all of these players are so good this question is impossible to predict. I think Wade/Shaq are better and easier to build around, but you could mix up these 4 in any way and it would be tough to call. Wade/Duncan would be nasty too...

[llllllllllllll]

There is seriously no hope for some of yall.

Yall claim that Kobe is at another level than Wade but if you look up all the players in the history of the sport to average 25/5/5 for their careers you'll see Dwyane Wade # 3 SG Miami Heat right there next to Kobe Bryant.

Plus he's a champion himself. Scoring champ himself. Multiple All Star himself, All NBA defender himself...

But forget stats and accolades for a sec, you want to talk about pure basketball ability ? Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

I'd love to know cuz I've seen Wade do some things Kobe couldn't dream of doing.

So when I hear that Kobe is 5-10 in the all time list and Wade proved over the years that he was always as effective and sometimes more effective a basketball player is a joke to me.

This ain't Tmac here man, or VC, or Iverson. Just because Kobe outclassed them doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes down to Wade. Hell, he passed all them guys up himself in his 3rd year.

So quit **** on a top 2-4 SG of all time just to prop up your guy. It irritates the hell outta people and makes them bring up off the court issues.

[jaypo]

Oh, so everything on the internet is true, but a police transcript isn't? Got it. And Riley saying Shaq was overweight? Was that the same Riley that praised how good of shape Shaq was in each year?

I'll give you quotes. Phil Jackson- the Last Season. Read it. You'll find all the quotes you need in there. What exactly is it that you see that I don't see? Are you saying that because I defend Shaq, that I'm wrong? You jabroni's seem to think that because we defend some things, we are saying that the player is perfect. Well, I'm not. As I said many times, there were a lot of things Shaq did that I don't agree with. And if infedilty was one of them, he is a douchebag for it. However, you guys are constantly defending Kobe. So I ask you this- if it's ok for you to cast stones at me for defending Shaq, why do you get your little panties in a bunch when I cast stones for you defending Kobe? I'm not stating conjecture about Kobe being a mean, bad person. I'm listing things that actually happened and trying to figure out how you rubes are gonna justify them! So if it's impossible to defend a player and admit he has faults at the same time (like you apparently think of Shaq fans), then, by default, you are admitting that Kobe has no faults! See how I can use YOUR double standard against you????

So now it's okay for Kobe to do the things he did to the organization because "Shaq was mean to him"? Poor baby! Shaq didn't take me out with him, so I'm gonna force him to be traded. Whaaaaaaaa whaaaaa. Funny! The feud starts because Shaq tells the coaches that Kobe was playing selfishly, a thing that YOU guys accuse Shaq of! You guys make me laugh!! And you do realize that Shaq's "treating of Kobe" was actually Shaq not kissing his ass, right? You DID read the article about how his teammates realized that Kobe was receiving special treatment from the organization and coaches, and that Shaq was the one that spoke up about it and wanted him to earn what he got and not have it handed to him, right? That sounds to me like a leader trying to preserve the integrity of his team. But you make it out to be him starting a feud! By taking up for 99% of his team? But because he hurt the feelings of your little hero, that was Shaq starting a feud.

Shaq made the effort to patch things up on all star weekend after talking to Bill Russell. Shaq made the offer, and Kobe never accepted it. He smiled in front of the camera, but he never accepted it. The "how does my ass taste" was all in fun, and Shaq even made fun of himself with it. He even made fun of himself by tweeting about Kobe asking him how his own ass tastes. Add to that the fact that other teammates said that they used to rap worse than that about each other all the time. BTW- if Shaq rapping was horrible, what about Kobe at the press conference saying "It's 1 more than Shaq. You know me. I don't forget anything". Had SHaq done that, the world would stop turning. But because it is the poster boy, it got right on thru!!

They should have worked on a suitable extension. And judging by his next 2 years (and 3 if it weren't for misdiagnosed injuries), the salary would have been justified. I'm pretty sure that a core of Shaq, Kobe, Malone (healed and ultra motivated) and GP (he helped in Miami and got a ring) along with some suitable bench players would have been able to come out of the west and feast on the east for the next 3 to 4 years. Shaq was still doing fine for that amount of time. He put up numbers equal to the 2nd best C in the league in Phoenix, and was fine in Cleveland. Even now, he's matching Duncan's productivity per 36 and he's 5 years older. To put it in perspective, at the point in his career that Duncan is in now, Shaq was putting up better numbers and hoisting up his 4th title. So I think an extension would have been justified, and it would have been up to both sides to negotiate. Remember, Shaq said AFTER the season that he would make it work- and he knew he would need to redo his contract. And if he was so overweight and unmotivated, he must be the GOAT ever to do what he did while being so fat and unmotivated.

The accusations of him paying off women came from Kobe. That's the only place I ever heard it from. Reports from the internet are great and all, but I also found reports that they found Elvis, bigfoot, hard proof of UFO's, and a missile hitting the pentagon instead of a terrorist attack. So needless to say, I'm kinda skeptical when it comes to those things!!!

Sure, Shaunie said so, but was it before or after she was sleeping around? Was it before or after Shaq filed for divorce and said he found out that she was hoarding his money into different ventures without his consent????

[Shaq Daddy]

Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

Shoot midrange, long twos and threes
Post up
Lock down opposing players (Wades good at blocking and thats it. He got abused by Marquis Daniels in the post)

[jaypo]

There is seriously no hope for some of yall.

Yall claim that Kobe is at another level than Wade but if you look up all the players in the history of the sport to average 25/5/5 for their careers you'll see Dwyane Wade # 3 SG Miami Heat right there next to Kobe Bryant.

Plus he's a champion himself. Scoring champ himself. Multiple All Star himself, All NBA defender himself...

But forget stats and accolades for a sec, you want to talk about pure basketball ability ? Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

I'd love to know cuz I've seen Wade do some things Kobe couldn't dream of doing.

So when I hear that Kobe is 5-10 in the all time list and Wade proved over the years that he was always as effective and sometimes more effective a basketball player is a joke to me.

This ain't Tmac here man, or VC, or Iverson. Just because Kobe outclassed them doesn't mean a damn thing when it comes down to Wade. Hell, he passed all them guys up himself in his 3rd year.

So quit **** on a top 2-4 SG of all time just to prop up your guy. It irritates the hell outta people and makes them bring up off the court issues.

It's useless! No matter how much hard proof you spit out, they won't accept it. Hell, I used Kobe's own words, and they won't accept it! There's nothing you can do to change the mind of irrational people!

[kasino]

Kobe is the better shooter/post player(most skilled post game for a perimeter IMO)
Wade better ballhandler/to the rim player with his athletcism
it means really little but thats the main difference i see
really like both but Wade ain't doing ish Kobe couldn't dream of

[jaypo]

Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

Shoot midrange, long twos and threes
Post up
Lock down opposing players (Wades good at blocking and thats it. He got abused by Marquis Daniels in the post)

Actually, I'd rather have Wade taking the midrange jumpers and long 2's. And when he's been in the league 14 years, I'd think his 3 pt range would be on par. I'd rather his defense as well.

But Kobe is, well, taller? One thing that Wade did far earlier in his career than Kobe EVER did was embrace the team game. Wade was able to mesh with Shaq's "huge ego" without a problem. Maybe it was different because Shaq knew he was 2nd option. But Wade shows me that he has the same abilities as Kobe but is a more willing teammate. And he put forth one of the best finals performances of all time. He didn't shoot 6 for 24 in the most important game of his life AT HOME. As a matter of fact, anyone wanna post Wade's finals numbers vs. Kobe's??? That would be fun!

I know what the hero worshippers are gonna say. "Yeah, but Kobe had 15 rebounds!" Yeah. There were plenty of opportunities. He missed 18 shots!!

[jaypo]

Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

Shoot midrange, long twos and threes
Post up
Lock down opposing players (Wades good at blocking and thats it. He got abused by Marquis Daniels in the post)

Actually, I'd rather have Wade taking the midrange jumpers and long 2's. And when he's been in the league 14 years, I'd think his 3 pt range would be on par. I'd rather his defense as well.

But Kobe is, well, taller? One thing that Wade did far earlier in his career than Kobe EVER did was embrace the team game. Wade was able to mesh with Shaq's "huge ego" without a problem. Maybe it was different because Shaq knew he was 2nd option. But Wade shows me that he has the same abilities as Kobe but is a more willing teammate. And he put forth one of the best finals performances of all time. He didn't shoot 6 for 24 in the most important game of his life AT HOME. As a matter of fact, anyone wanna post Wade's finals numbers vs. Kobe's??? That would be fun!

I know what the hero worshippers are gonna say. "Yeah, but Kobe had 15 rebounds!" Yeah. There were plenty of opportunities. He missed 18 shots!!

[Shaq Daddy]

Give Wade Kobe's current athleticism and see how effective he would be

[Shaq Daddy]

Well then tell me WTF does Kobe do on the floor that Wade can't do himself ??????????????????????????????????????

Shoot midrange, long twos and threes
Post up
Lock down opposing players (Wades good at blocking and thats it. He got abused by Marquis Daniels in the post)

Actually, I'd rather have Wade taking the midrange jumpers and long 2's. And when he's been in the league 14 years, I'd think his 3 pt range would be on par. I'd rather his defense as well.

But Kobe is, well, taller? One thing that Wade did far earlier in his career than Kobe EVER did was embrace the team game. Wade was able to mesh with Shaq's "huge ego" without a problem. Maybe it was different because Shaq knew he was 2nd option. But Wade shows me that he has the same abilities as Kobe but is a more willing teammate. And he put forth one of the best finals performances of all time. He didn't shoot 6 for 24 in the most important game of his life AT HOME. As a matter of fact, anyone wanna post Wade's finals numbers vs. Kobe's??? That would be fun!

I know what the hero worshippers are gonna say. "Yeah, but Kobe had 15 rebounds!" Yeah. There were plenty of opportunities. He missed 18 shots!!

Let's see Wade put up those numbers against the 2008 Boston Celtics or 2004 Pistons

Let's see Wade put up those numbers without insanely one sided officiating

[llllllllllllll]

So Kobe has all these post moves, and is the better shooter but his two best shooting years happen to be Wade's worst shooting years.

Let's see yall spin those facts.

[kasino]

is Wade a jumpshooter now?
or is he to the rim first giving him the edge in FG%
but you knew that, thats basic basketball knowledge

[llllllllllllll]

Give Wade Kobe's current athleticism and see how effective he would be

Not Wade's fault he's the superior athlete.

[Shaq Daddy]

Give Wade Kobe's current athleticism and see how effective he would be

Not Wade's fault he's the superior athlete.

We'll see how productive he is when he's 32

[Wavy Q]

So Kobe has all these post moves, and is the better shooter but his two best shooting years happen to be Wade's worst shooting years.

Let's see yall spin those facts.

Wade scores the majority of his baskets as high percentage shots around the rim...

it's really not hard to understand.

[Vincent 666]

But when the rape exam states that the tears were consistent with rape, I trust that rather than your word.

!

Actually the nurse that administered the test testified to the opposite because of the fact that the accuser showed up the exam with the semen of another man on her.

As usual, you have your facts wrong.

Its really amazing how you can be factually wrong about so many different things.


The rest of your posts are more bs Kobe hate and revision of history.

[Shaq Daddy]

So Kobe has all these post moves, and is the better shooter but his two best shooting years happen to be Wade's worst shooting years.

Let's see yall spin those facts.

Wade scores the majority of his baskets as high percentage shots around the rim...

it's really not hard to understand.

where is your avatar from