#3 Highest Peak of All Time (Russell '65 wins)

[Doctor MJ]

Okay folks, I'm going to call it, and start the next thread. Anyone who voted who doesn't see their name on the above list should say something ASAP. If an error is found by the time I log back in tomorrow, we'll deal with it.

For now, 'grats to Russ '65.

[lorak]

Like I asked before, why is Hakeem's peak better than Duncan's? Where is the evidence for that?

Playoffs offensive dominance (scoring) and clutch moments. Hakeem was also probably more versatile defender.

And like fatal, I don't understand how people could vote for Russell while at the same time ignoring Hakeem, who defensively was comparable to Bill (adjusting for era) and offensively was WAY, WAY better.


vote: LeBron '09 (would be Hakeem, but nobody is voting for him, so my pick is LeBron, who IMO has better peak than both Russell and Wilt)

[therealbig3]

@drza

That wasn't directed at you, it was more meant for the people that are considering Hakeem as part of the Wilt/Russell tier and nobody else.

If you feel that guys like Duncan and Garnett are legitimate candidates at this point, then by all means, discuss Hakeem. But I have a feeling he's held in much higher (or at least, clearly higher) regard than Duncan or Garnett, and I don't see the case for that.

And personally, I don't think Duncan/Garnett deserve to go as of yet, and so I don't think that Hakeem should either. They're all on the same tier to me.

[therealbig3]

Playoffs offensive dominance (scoring)

If that's the difference, then that should be reflected in SPM, no? Or even PER, which tends to favor volume scorers? Duncan is clearly ahead with both.

Olajuwon (93/94-94/95 RS), per 36: 24.6 ppg, .564 TS%, 25.6 PER
Olajuwon (93/94-94/95 PS), per 36: 26.1 ppg, .563 TS%, 27.2 PER

Duncan (01/02-02/03 RS), per 36: 22.0 ppg, .570 TS%, 27.0 PER
Duncan (01/02-02/03 PS), per 36: 21.6 ppg, .569 TS%, 29.3 PER

There's really not a significant difference in scoring, and PER and SPM both clearly favor Duncan in the regular season and playoffs.

clutch moments

Duncan was incredibly "clutch" as well, and anyway, as ElGee would attest to, "clutch" is kind of a bogus concept.

Hakeem was also probably more versatile defender.

Fair enough, but neither guy was really defending anyone other than PFs and Cs. Hakeem was probably better in the PnR, because of his superior ability to stick with guards than Duncan, but Duncan was pretty great himself. And I would argue that Duncan is a "smarter" defender, as in, his positioning and rotations are superior.

[ThaRegul8r]

Hmm. I see Russell was voted in at #3, which rather surprises me. I saw no chance that he would get in this early.

But I'm a bit disappointed in that, as I said, before this project there was no agreement on which season was Russell's best, with people saying '62, '65 or '64, and all people did was simply jump on the bandwagon of what someone said instead of looking at the seasons and trying to come to a decision about what one one thinks is the best. It seems to me that whenever people say something is "a tough decision," they don't take that as a challenge to roll up their sleeves and actually grapple with it in order to come to some level of understanding about it, but would rather just leave it alone. So the easy way out is to simply go along with what other people seem to be saying. I've done a comparison on the aforementioned seasons, but it seems none of that will be necessary now as it's been settled.

[ardee]

That was a nice post by Fatal about Hakeem. As you might have guessed from my earlier post about LeBron, I'm finding myself leaning towards the bigs over him. I'm not sure that Hakeem is next for me, but I do think he, Duncan and KG are ahead of LeBron on my ballot. I still have to figure out where to put Magic and Bird, as well as Wilt, Doc and Kareem.

I'm surprised he hasn't received any chatter yet when practically everyone else has. People are really underestimating his 1977 performance in arguably the most loaded league in history.

at your sig.

And I agree with KAJ in '77. I know I mentioned Hakeem earlier in this thread, but KAJ definitely deserves more discussion here as well. There's a solid chance Kareem and Hakeem are better than Wilt and Russell.

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