The Lebron Thread (Pt. 3)

Rasho_libre · Post #121 » by **Rasho_libre** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:51 am

GC Pantalones wrote:WTF is wrong with Lebron. That's one game well below his average and one bad game so far. Today he played like garbage and say what you want about his 11 points in the run but 5 of them came after the Heat were up by 19+ and the rest came from cherry picking. I'm very disappointed in Lebron and he's making the 2012 Finals the odd one out right now...

What you talking bout Willis? If you watch he series spurs are making him into a passer. He will have his big scoring nights on the road. 2012 was his dirk playoff run. Miami is at its best when everyone hasn't going if not Lebron has to go into game 6 mode.

I also think fatigue is finally catching up to him a bit, he has played ball non stop since he entered the league. What the hell is up btw with that leg band he certainly looked hurt or gassed until that 4th run which looked all on adrenaline.

GSP · Post #122 » by **GSP** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:05 am

Lebron said he wanted to rest in the 4th quarter for game 1. This offseason will do a lot of good to him IMO

JulesWinnfield · Post #123 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:40 am

With all the over analysis of LeBron's game (and im not excusing myself from it), I just feel compelled to add the following big picture nugget...

He is 3 wins away from an NBA title and whomever you wish to label the 2nd best player on the Heat in this postseason ( be it Wade or Bosh), production wise they'd be one of the weaker 2nd fiddles on a title team in recent memory. He is 3 wins away from leading a team to a title with D-Wade averaging 14.0 pts on 44% FG in this postseason, stapled to the bench when the Heat are making their run tonight. We're at the point with Bosh now where he has been so pathetic of late that we almost have to grade him on a curve, and tonight was very encouraging if you take that view point.

Lebron hasn't had a breakout first 2 games scoring wise. I think he is going to play much better going forward and find a way to finish off the repeat bid. We over analyze every micro development during the process. But take a big picture look at the job he has done to put this team in this position. It doesn't seem special because we expect it of him. But it is. He has carried this team for the most part in this postseason, especially when more has been required

Rasho_libre · Post #124 » by **Rasho_libre** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:11 am

His title in 2012 also required him to go into god mode quite a bit. Wade wasn't as consistent as 2011 and bosh was hurt for half the playoffs, they were still playing Joel Anthony big minutes. 2011 is the only year they could have been considered cheap IMO. Wade was still old wade of 09ish. Bosh was coming off his best season on the raps.this year both wade and bosh have regressed significantly. If they win it would be huge. Which I think they will.

JulesWinnfield · Post #125 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:21 am

Rasho_libre wrote:His title in 2012 also required him to go into god mode quite a bit.

Yep. The guy gets 3 more wins and this is one of the best 2 year runs of all time. Back to back MVP+Finals MVP, only been done by MJ in 91/92 (May have been done by Russell from 61-63 but there was no finals MVP in those years). Once again leading Miami in scoring, rebounding and assists, I do not believe any player has ever led 2 title teams doing that, he's 3 wins from doing it back to back. If he gets this done, this will be looked at as one of the best 2 year runs of all time

orangeparka · Post #126 » by **orangeparka** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:16 pm

JulesWinnfield wrote:
Rasho_libre wrote:His title in 2012 also required him to go into god mode quite a bit.

Yep. The guy gets 3 more wins and this is one of the best 2 year runs of all time. Back to back MVP+Finals MVP, only been done by MJ in 91/92 (May have been done by Russell from 61-63 but there was no finals MVP in those years). Once again leading Miami in scoring, rebounding and assists, I do not believe any player has ever led 2 title teams doing that, he's 3 wins from doing it back to back. If he gets this done, this will be looked at as one of the best 2 year runs of all time

It will be very, very impressive for his legacy if he wins it this season no doubt. Pains me as a huge D-Wade fan, but he hasn't been consistently good at all this postseason (a lot to do with injury) and Bosh is 12/7.

Mutnt · Post #127 » by **Mutnt** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:36 pm

LeBron has been a little off scoring-wise in the Finals, but if you can put 18 points (still be clearly the best player on the team) and your team blows out the opponent by 20 points I don't see any need for big scoring games...

Post #128 » by **rrravenred** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:43 pm

orangeparka wrote:
It will be very, very impressive for his legacy if he wins it this season no doubt. Pains me as a huge D-Wade fan, but he hasn't been consistently good at all this postseason (a lot to do with injury) and Bosh is 12/7.

Sorta weird how the "OMG he had to join forces with superstars" point of view doesn't look quite as persuasive any more. The decline from both has been substantial this playoffs. Not to say that they don't have arguably the deepest squad in the POs, but the cream at the top has thinned dramatically...

E-Balla · Post #129 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:25 pm

If anything the fact that Lebron won't even have to play great to lead this team to the Finals makes the league look bad not Lebron look good. You can call it one of the best 2 year runs if you want to but there's no competition to Miami right now.

JulesWinnfield · Post #130 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:35 pm

Just looked through all the champions since the merger (only reason I stopped there is because I have to run to work and pressed for time.) Only the 1994 Rockets won a title getting as little scoring production from their 2nd scorer (in terms of ppg in the playoffs) as Miami is getting from Wade right now. Of course scoring average doesn't mean everything and Wade has been more efficient than a bunch of guys who may have averaged a tick more as a sidekick (Parker in 03 for instance). But still. And Miami's offense has largely been its most dynamic in this postseason when Wade is on the bench and Lebron is surrounded by shooting.

therealbig3 · Post #131 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:44 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:If anything the fact that Lebron won't even have to play great to lead this team to the Finals makes the league look bad not Lebron look good. You can call it one of the best 2 year runs if you want to but there's no competition to Miami right now.

You're trying way too hard to discredit him. How are the Pacers "no competition"? That was a series in which he played great and had to play great, because Wade and Bosh were contributing nothing. So yeah, LeBron did put a team on his back and lead them over a damn good team in order to get to the Finals.

And these Finals are no joke. LeBron hasn't had a good start in these first 2 games, but he's clearly been the MVP of the Heat so far.

As someone else pointed out, IF he wins the title/Finals MVP, how is it NOT one of the best 2-year runs of all time, if not THE best? Back to back MVPs, back to back rings, back to back Finals MVPs, and incredible statistical production in the box score and otherwise.

JulesWinnfield · Post #132 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:49 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:If anything the fact that Lebron won't even have to play great to lead this team to the Finals makes the league look bad not Lebron look good. You can call it one of the best 2 year runs if you want to but there's no competition to Miami right now.

This is all that's left for Skip Bayless' children of the world to spout. Lebron might be compiling chips now, and we can't kill him for having a loaded cast, so the last resort is to crap on the league as a whole

Among some of the few similarities between Lebron and MJ are the arguments their detractors would use during their respective primes to rationalize their success away.

therealbig3 · Post #133 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:05 pm

I will say that LeBron looks "human" for the first time since 2011 really, at least in the eyes of many. Which does have an impact, because coming into this season, you would think he had the MVP award on lockdown as long as he's in his prime. But if he labors through another Finals, even if they win, he could easily lose the MVP next year as a combination of looking vulnerable and not as dominant beginning to end as 2012 (he never had a down moment in 2012, I don't think) and voter fatigue.

orangeparka · Post #134 » by **orangeparka** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:09 pm

rrravenred wrote:
orangeparka wrote:
It will be very, very impressive for his legacy if he wins it this season no doubt. Pains me as a huge D-Wade fan, but he hasn't been consistently good at all this postseason (a lot to do with injury) and Bosh is 12/7.

Sorta weird how the "OMG he had to join forces with superstars" point of view doesn't look quite as persuasive any more. The decline from both has been substantial this playoffs. Not to say that they don't have arguably the deepest squad in the POs, but the cream at the top has thinned dramatically...

I have faith that Bosh and Wade will step it up in the offseason... Wade at the very least. I can't see him just disappear after a 15ppg postseason.

E-Balla · Post #135 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:26 pm

therealbig3 wrote:
GC Pantalones wrote:If anything the fact that Lebron won't even have to play great to lead this team to the Finals makes the league look bad not Lebron look good. You can call it one of the best 2 year runs if you want to but there's no competition to Miami right now.

You're trying way too hard to discredit him. How are the Pacers "no competition"? That was a series in which he played great and had to play great, because Wade and Bosh were contributing nothing. So yeah, LeBron did put a team on his back and lead them over a damn good team in order to get to the Finals.

And these Finals are no joke. LeBron hasn't had a good start in these first 2 games, but he's clearly been the MVP of the Heat so far.

The Pacers won 49 games in the weakest eastern conference since the early 2000s. Miami made them look good but if they made the Finals they might've been the weakest Finals team ever. I love how you guys ride him do hard and dismiss the facts:
Fact one - Only 3 teams we commonly thought to have a chance of beating Miami. Chicago, LA, and OKC. All three teams were without (at least) a top 2 player on their roster in the playoffs. The Heat have played the 38 win Bucks, the -0.01 SRS Bulls (who were without 3 starters and had another one seriously injured) and the Pacers who only looked good because they couldn't stop Hibbert (didn't matter that they couldn't stop him though because the coach would bench him).
Being the MVP of the Heat right now isn't that big a deal because they aren't really playing that good. The 2011 Heat would sweep this team even with the shored up bench and role players.

As someone else pointed out, IF he wins the title/Finals MVP, how is it NOT one of the best 2-year runs of all time, if not THE best? Back to back MVPs, back to back rings, back to back Finals MVPs, and incredible statistical production in the box score and otherwise.

I should sig this.

JulesWinnfield wrote:This is all that's left for Skip Bayless' children of the world to spout. Lebron might be compiling chips now, and we can't kill him for having a loaded cast, so the last resort is to crap on the league as a whole

Among some of the few similarities between Lebron and MJ are the arguments their detractors would use during their respective primes to rationalize their success away.

Lebron shot 4-13 with 10 points through 3 quarters and Miami was still up 10 but yes he's carrying the team :roll:

. His cast might not be "loaded" but they're well over the competition. Ray Allen and Birdman would start on half the teams right now and they outplayed most other players in the playoffs.

Say MJ was in a crap league but he was compared to Bird and Magic. Lebron is in a crap league period. ALL OF THE BEST TEAMS ARE MISSING STAR PLAYERS!

This is why I hate fanboys. Any legit criticism is written off as "hating".

therealbig3 · Post #136 » by **therealbig3** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 2:40 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:The Pacers won 49 games in the weakest eastern conference since the early 2000s. Miami made them look good but if they made the Finals they might've been the weakest Finals team ever.

The Pacers had a 3.34 SRS this year, which was 3rd best in the East, and 9th best overall. They were a very good team.

GC Pantalones wrote:Fact one - Only 3 teams we commonly thought to have a chance of beating Miami. Chicago, LA, and OKC.

So yeah, you're starting off with something false right off the bat. Only a healthy Chicago and maybe Memphis was considered to be on a fully healthy Miami's level. LA was all hypothetical and they bombed like crazy this year. OKC was considered a weaker version of Miami, and got punked both times they played them this year. I have no idea how preseason predictions matter. Also, a ton of people thought Indiana matched up well with Miami and could give them a run for their money, which they did.

GC Pantalones wrote:The Heat have played the 38 win Bucks, the -0.01 SRS Bulls (who were without 3 starters and had another one seriously injured) and the Pacers who only looked good because they couldn't stop Hibbert (didn't matter that they couldn't stop him though because the coach would bench him).

So a joke of a 1st round opponent (this has never happened in the history of the NBA, I'm sure), a Bulls team with a lot of heart that relies more on coaching than talent anyway, and a Pacers team that had a 3.34 SRS during the regular season with Hibbert playing like garbage offensively.

But preconceived notions and biases for the win!

GC Pantalones wrote: I should sig this.

Go for it. Nothing I said was wrong. It very clearly would be one of the best 2-year runs for a player all time.

GC Pantalones wrote:Lebron shot 4-13 with 10 points through 3 quarters and Miami was still up 10 but yes he's carrying the team

Super small sample sizes for the win!

Let's ignore the rest of the playoffs.

GC Pantalones wrote:Say MJ was in a crap league but he was compared to Bird and Magic. Lebron is in a crap league period. ALL OF THE BEST TEAMS ARE MISSING STAR PLAYERS!

INCLUDING LeBron's own team! The ONLY star on Miami is LeBron right now. Wade and Bosh have not been close to being stars throughout the playoffs. If the Heat are going through the same thing as everyone else, but they're still a whole lot better, that puts in perspective how good LeBron is.

GC Pantalones wrote:This is why I hate fanboys. Any legit criticism is written off as "hating".

This is why I hate haters. They think delusional reaching is legit criticism and are shocked when they're called out on it.

E-Balla · Post #137 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:33 pm

Pacers were not good. In a eastern conference ravaged by injuries they were only the 3rd seed. They were 5 wins behind the 2nd team and people might not want to admit it but they were on healthy Chicago's level (not counting D. Rose). Miami being weak enough to make Hibbert look like a hall of famer does not make the team any better. Hell even going by SRS you realize that your talking about the 9th best team in the league? Not that impressive.

And what's false about the preseason prediction? Who the hell had Memphis even making it to the Finals?

Say what you want abou Wade and Bosh not being superstars but against scrub teams he doesn't need stars. Again those "not star" players carried Lebron's corpse last game.

therealbig3 wrote:This is why I hate haters. They think delusional reaching is legit criticism and are shocked when they're called out on it.

What makes someone a hater? If I see Lebron play like ass I'm going to say he played like ass. I didn't criticize him against Indiana when he looked great. I didn't criticize him last year when he looked great. But suddenly when he starts to play bad it's hating.

I called you a homer because you said in your post that LEBRON "PLEASE HOLD ME RIO" JAMES IS HAVING ONE OF THE BEST IF NOT THE BEST 2 YEAR RUN EVER. Jordan has at least 5 better 2 year runs, Hakeem has 2 better, Shaq has 4 better, LEBRON MIGHT EVEN HAVE ONE BETTER! Two great regular seasons and one great postseason isn't something that's never been done before but in the case of Lebron James nothing that happened before 2012 matters right?

colts18 · Post #138 » by **colts18** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:45 pm

The Pacers are a good team. They had arguably the best starting lineup in the NBA. That is good enough to do damage in the playoffs.

lorak · Post #139 » by **lorak** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:59 pm

GC Pantalones wrote:Pacers were not good. In a eastern conference ravaged by injuries they were only the 3rd seed.

Hibbert had his hand injured until mid January and because of that he was shooting around 40% from the field. Bunt when he healed his hand Pacers played like top 5 team in the NBA. Since mid January Indiana's efficiency differential (ortg-drtg) was +7.4, better than Spurs (+5.2) or Grizzlies (also +5.2).

In other words: when Hibbert was healthy only Heat and Thunder were better than Pacers.

colts18 · Post #140 » by **colts18** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:09 pm

Top lineups in the NBA this year

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... y=diff_pts

The Pacers starting lineup even played better than the Heat's starting lineup.