2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

RCM88x · Post #121 » by **RCM88x** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:34 am

It is interesting Kawhi can play more games than KD and yet is the one being kicked off the list due to not playing enough.

70sFan · Post #122 » by **70sFan** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 11:06 am

Dutchball97 wrote:Apparently that top 10, despite being named the 2023 top 10, is heavily influenced by previous seasons. I get using previous seasons to make a prediction for new seasons but when the season in question already happened I'm no longer following the thought process.

I mean, he doesn't have James inside top 10. That alone shows it's not really that influenced by previous seasons.

AEnigma · Post #123 » by **AEnigma** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:16 pm

70sFan wrote:
Jaivl wrote:And KD does it again! One more year being top 4 by virtue of fantasy and magic!

Yeah, it's shocking to me that even someone as knowledgeable as Ben has Durant that high another year. It's strange that people ignore him missing tons of RS games and playing mediocre in the playoffs, while accounting for that with any other player.

Greatest theoretical player in NBA history.

Dutchball97 · Post #124 » by **Dutchball97** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:36 pm

70sFan wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:Apparently that top 10, despite being named the 2023 top 10, is heavily influenced by previous seasons. I get using previous seasons to make a prediction for new seasons but when the season in question already happened I'm no longer following the thought process.

I mean, he doesn't have James inside top 10. That alone shows it's not really that influenced by previous seasons.

I saw this posted on reddit before here and someone who listened to the podcast said Ben didn't just base it on what happened this season. I didn't listen to it myself so I'm not going to claim that it's definitely the case or anything but if it's only based on this season and not taking into account 1-2 seasons before this I don't know how this list makes sense either. Tatum and Butler were 2 and 3 in our POY project and towards the bottom of this list. How else does it make sense to have Embiid and Giannis seperated by KD and Curry?

70sFan · Post #125 » by **70sFan** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 2:48 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:Apparently that top 10, despite being named the 2023 top 10, is heavily influenced by previous seasons. I get using previous seasons to make a prediction for new seasons but when the season in question already happened I'm no longer following the thought process.

I mean, he doesn't have James inside top 10. That alone shows it's not really that influenced by previous seasons.

I saw this posted on reddit before here and someone who listened to the podcast said Ben didn't just base it on what happened this season. I didn't listen to it myself so I'm not going to claim that it's definitely the case or anything but if it's only based on this season and not taking into account 1-2 seasons before this I don't know how this list makes sense either. Tatum and Butler were 2 and 3 in our POY project and towards the bottom of this list. How else does it make sense to have Embiid and Giannis seperated by KD and Curry?

Yes, Ben takes into account larger samples than one season, which makes sense.

We need to remember that Ben list isn't a POY list. He creates the list with the players that gives you the highest odds to win the title on a contending team. I don't love the whole concept personally, but it makes sense that he's higher on Steph than Tatum, despite Tatum having a better season.

I still fail to see the case for KD being that high though...

eminence · Post #126 » by **eminence** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:47 pm

C'mon, Kyrie to the Suns for the minimum.

Lou Fan · Post #127 » by **Lou Fan** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:49 pm

It's about as likely as Kyrie to the Lakers for the minimum was

eminence · Post #128 » by **eminence** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 7:51 pm

Lou Fan wrote:It's about as likely as Kyrie to the Lakers for the minimum was

But that one would be relatively boring. Kyrie/LeBron/AD - great trio, easy fit, seen it before.

I would actually enjoy the ridiculousness of a Kyrie/Beal/Booker/KD/Ayton squad.

Post #129 » by **Doctor MJ** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:17 pm

Y’all, Ben’s been using the same criteria for these lists for years:

It’s his assessment of who is best at basketball right now assuming good health. (Though when health concerns are big enough that they are keeping him from having confidence In what the player can be expected to do, that’s a bit different.)

It’s just a different thing from the MVP/POY stuff, and it’s worthwhile for different reasons. I certainly like hearing his take in this.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rk2023 · Post #130 » by **rk2023** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:49 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=_HOjrsiLtTYaVpOZxyl7Iw

Wow. I don’t know how to react at this point.

Mos_Heat · Post #131 » by **Mos_Heat** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 8:54 pm

Balmer gonna triple down on this miserable Kawhi-PG experience

eminence · Post #132 » by **eminence** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:24 pm

If they can hit the one in 50 all 3 are healthy playoff run, Harden/Kawhi/George is still a crazy good core. Not much reason not to for the Clippers.

LukaTheGOAT · Post #133 » by **LukaTheGOAT** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:50 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:
70sFan wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:Apparently that top 10, despite being named the 2023 top 10, is heavily influenced by previous seasons. I get using previous seasons to make a prediction for new seasons but when the season in question already happened I'm no longer following the thought process.

I mean, he doesn't have James inside top 10. That alone shows it's not really that influenced by previous seasons.

I saw this posted on reddit before here and someone who listened to the podcast said Ben didn't just base it on what happened this season. I didn't listen to it myself so I'm not going to claim that it's definitely the case or anything but if it's only based on this season and not taking into account 1-2 seasons before this I don't know how this list makes sense either. Tatum and Butler were 2 and 3 in our POY project and towards the bottom of this list. How else does it make sense to have Embiid and Giannis seperated by KD and Curry?

You don't actually think Tatum and Booker are top 3 players in the world though, right?

MartinToVaught · Post #134 » by **MartinToVaught** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 9:57 pm

eminence wrote:If they can hit the one in 50 all 3 are healthy playoff run, Harden/Kawhi/George is still a crazy good core. Not much reason not to for the Clippers.

I'd say the odds are more like one in a million at this point. And even then, I don't think even a healthy Kawhi would be enough to make up for Harden's annual playoff disappearing act and the roller-coaster ride that is PG.

Even if all the stars align, they'd still have no chance against Denver, a properly-constructed team that does all the things the Clippers have steadfastly refused to do for decades, and the results speak for themselves.

Lou Fan · Post #135 » by **Lou Fan** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:04 pm

If I'm Philly I'm tempted to just hang on to him if the returns not great. May as well give this one more chance considering they were pretty close and maybe Harden changes his mind. If there was no long term interest in Harden this offseason there probably won't be next season either.

eminence · Post #136 » by **eminence** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:11 pm

Lou Fan wrote:If I'm Philly I'm tempted to just hang on to him if the returns not great. May as well give this one more chance considering they were pretty close and maybe Harden changes his mind. If there was no long term interest in Harden this offseason there probably won't be next season either.

I got the impression he opted in after them agreeing to a trade. Barring a change of heart from Harden that’d destroy their rep with players/agents around the league.

Lou Fan · Post #137 » by **Lou Fan** » Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:20 pm

eminence wrote:
Lou Fan wrote:If I'm Philly I'm tempted to just hang on to him if the returns not great. May as well give this one more chance considering they were pretty close and maybe Harden changes his mind. If there was no long term interest in Harden this offseason there probably won't be next season either.

I got the impression he opted in after them agreeing to a trade. Barring a change of heart from Harden that’d destroy their rep with players/agents around the league.

Maybe but it's also possible that he opted in and is just demanding a trade. If that was the agreement they should honor it of course but if it's Harden making a power play then the Sixers can exert some power of their own. Harden would probably pull his Rockets shenanigans again but if they just still hold then he'll have to play and play well or tank his own value.

Statlanta · Post #138 » by **Statlanta** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:54 am

Read on Twitter

?s=61

The Lakers 46th pick is more valuable than the Magic’s 5th pick.

Stuff like this is why the East is behind the West

AEnigma · Post #139 » by **AEnigma** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:58 am

Crazy how the Lakers could have two more rings if they had made that Lowry trade. :devil:

Dutchball97 · Post #140 » by **Dutchball97** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:42 am

LukaTheGOAT wrote:
Dutchball97 wrote:
70sFan wrote:I mean, he doesn't have James inside top 10. That alone shows it's not really that influenced by previous seasons.

I saw this posted on reddit before here and someone who listened to the podcast said Ben didn't just base it on what happened this season. I didn't listen to it myself so I'm not going to claim that it's definitely the case or anything but if it's only based on this season and not taking into account 1-2 seasons before this I don't know how this list makes sense either. Tatum and Butler were 2 and 3 in our POY project and towards the bottom of this list. How else does it make sense to have Embiid and Giannis seperated by KD and Curry?

You don't actually think Tatum and Booker are top 3 players in the world though, right?

Tatum and Butler, not Tatum and Booker, but yeah if we're making list of who were the best players in the 2023 season then I have Butler and Tatum top 3.

Even after all these pages I'm not getting the purpose of these "who are the best right now" lists. They're not judging who had the best season, they're not judging who will be the best going forward. Instead it's a weird mix of like an established ranking getting impacted by the current season but on both cases it's not consistent.