James Harden is a superstar

JordansBulls · Post #1201 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 am

Dr Positivity wrote:It's funny that he's on pace for almost exactly the same WS as last year (6.7 in 45 Gs extrapolates to 9.2 over 62 Gs, and last year he put up 9.3 in 62 Gs)

True but also last year his WS/PER 48 minutes was at .230 while this year it is at .185

ardee · Post #1202 » by **ardee** » Thu Feb 7, 2013 5:29 pm

35.5 Game Score today.

If LeBron/Wade is considered the acid test for guards, I can't think of anyone who's passed it better than anyone. This was probably the best game anyone has played against the Heat in a while.

Dr Positivity · Post #1203 » by **Dr Positivity** » Thu Feb 7, 2013 7:28 pm

This guy probably should be considered the 4th best player in the league after Lebron, Durant and Paul. Call him the Andy Murray to their Federer/Nadal/Djokovic. If the Rockets become a top 2 seed at some point he'll be a serious threat to win an MVP

Black Feet · Post #1204 » by **Black Feet** » Thu Feb 7, 2013 7:33 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:This guy probably should be considered the 4th best player in the league after Lebron, Durant and Paul. Call him the Andy Murray to their Federer/Nadal/Djokovic. If the Rockets become a top 2 seed at some point he'll be a serious threat to win an MVP

More like top 10 player, and lol at the rockets becoming a top 2 seed that clearly isn't happening this season(they might not even make the playoffs) or anytime in the near future.

sprint2thecup · Post #1205 » by **sprint2thecup** » Thu Feb 7, 2013 7:39 pm

Black Feet wrote:
Dr Positivity wrote:This guy probably should be considered the 4th best player in the league after Lebron, Durant and Paul. Call him the Andy Murray to their Federer/Nadal/Djokovic. If the Rockets become a top 2 seed at some point he'll be a serious threat to win an MVP

More like top 10 player, and lol at the rockets becoming a top 2 seed that clearly isn't happening this season(they might not even make the playoffs) or anytime in the near future.

the landscape of the nba changes quite a bit from season to season. it wouldn't exactly shock me if houston made a good trade, and became a top 4 seed anytime within the next few years. top 2 might be pushing it but who knows, they seem like a team that could foster its chemistry and really rack up the regular season Ws.

Post #1206 » by **rrravenred** » Thu Feb 7, 2013 10:55 pm

There's still a reasonable amount of growth in the team and a pretty strong base to build on. Team's only got an average age of 23 and added a high-volume on-ball shooter without getting a full pre-season to work out sets and roles.

Next sesason's Rockets could be even more interesting than this year's...

Post #1207 » by **Doctor MJ** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 1:29 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:
G35 wrote:I have a feeling that players are affected by their stats also. Lebron and Wade are having their efficiency battle. I'm sure Harden is aware of what TS% is also......

What's more likely is he's aware of what's a good shot and what isn't. Which in turn, helps his team win.

But hey, spin your own narrative.

Exactly and wow, it's bizarre to me how alien it is for many people to think about efficiency like a player thinks about efficiency.

While it's certainly true that there are players who have become obsessed with efficiency to an unhealthy extreme, volume scorers pretty much by definition don't have that luxury. If a volume scorer is efficient, it means that he's willing to take a lot of shots that aren't easy, but that he's still recognizing what a truly bad shot is.

JordansBulls · Post #1208 » by **JordansBulls** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:04 pm

I wanted this guy to start in the ASG in Houston this year since he plays there.

G35 · Post #1209 » by **G35** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:30 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:
G35 wrote:I have a feeling that players are affected by their stats also. Lebron and Wade are having their efficiency battle. I'm sure Harden is aware of what TS% is also......

What's more likely is he's aware of what's a good shot and what isn't. Which in turn, helps his team win.

But hey, spin your own narrative.

Exactly and wow, it's bizarre to me how alien it is for many people to think about efficiency like a player thinks about efficiency.

While it's certainly true that there are players who have become obsessed with efficiency to an unhealthy extreme, volume scorers pretty much by definition don't have that luxury. If a volume scorer is efficient, it means that he's willing to take a lot of shots that aren't easy, but that he's still recognizing what a truly bad shot is.

I agree. I don't think that many of the posters here think the way players do and base many of their arguments on a fans perspective and not the way many players actually play the game. Which is why the whole impact vs winning argument is so funny to me. During a game, during the heat of the competition, especially at the highest levels players are not giving a damn about their efficiency.

However if a player is in a contract year, or his team is not in contention, or the player is just selfish they may concern themself more with their "impact stats" than with teams success.

Now I may be wrong here. Perhaps Harden does know when he is taking a bad shot. Perhaps he does know that he should only be attacking the rim. Well let's go to the game logs this year and see:

Nov 3 POR 8-24 FG, 1-6 3P
Nov 7 DEN 5-15 FG, 0-5 3P
Nov 9 MEM 4-18 FG, 1-6 3P
Nov 12 MIA 6-17 FG, 1-6 3P
Nov 18 LAL 7-18 FG, 3-7 3P
Nov 28 OKC 3-16 FG, 2-5 3P
Dec 4 LAL 3-19 FG, 0-4 3P
Dec 14 BOS 6-17 FG, 2-7 3P
Dec 16 TOR 7-18 FG, 0-3 3P
Dec 29 OKC 6-17 FG, 2-7 3P
Dec 31 ATL 7-17 FG, 2-6 3P
Jan 5 CLE 6-17 FG, 3-9 3P
Jan 16 DAL 5-23 FG, 1-8 3P
Jan 18 IND 5-19 FG, 3-7 3P
Jan 19 MIN 5-18 FG, 0-7 3P
Jan 21 CHA 5-20 FG, 0-5 3P

I wonder at what point during that road trip in January that Harden went 4-27 on 3PA's if he thought he was taking a bad shot? Or when he went 20-80 FGA over a four game stretch if he was wondering what a bad shot was. Let's get back to that later.

Harden has 16 games where his FG% is under 40%. In comparison Kobe has 12.

So I'm spinning a narrative and I'm sure there will be no spin response. These are just abberations that can easily explained away by Harden's loyal followers.....

Post #1210 » by **tsherkin** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:39 pm

I doubt Harden does, for example, TS%-based analysis but he takes primarily the two most-efficient types of shots, threes and shots at the rim (likely to draw fouls, higher FG%). That's a strategy, at lead in rudimentary form. With threes, as any ranged shot, the trade-off is weaker consistency, so you get those kinds of games when you're taking a high volume of shots that have a raw 40% FG or thereabouts.

Players have bad nights, and we know that even inefficient scorers have utility to a point. Ignoring the fact that, historically, the best scorers tend to be the more efficient ones (at volume) or the implications of winning percentage and offensive efficiency would be a mistake though.

There's a balance point between looking only at numbers and only at context, though.

Doormatt · Post #1211 » by **Doormatt** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 5:50 pm

JordansBulls wrote:I wanted this guy to start in the ASG in Houston this year since he plays there.

theres no way in hell hes going to start in the all star game as long as kobe and paul are still playing.

ardee · Post #1212 » by **ardee** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 7:34 pm

He has a good shot at going down as a top 30 player all time, as I see it right now.

People, we're witnessing the next great shooting guard here. I don't know how anyone can deny the fact that he's 23 years old, in the alpha role for the first time, and is a top 10 player, anymore.

Mavericksfan · Post #1213 » by **Mavericksfan** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 7:49 pm

Dont you think top 30 is quite a stretch so soon?

Who knows what kind of team success he'll see

Krodis · Post #1214 » by **Krodis** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 7:53 pm

I mean he hasn't even finished his first season as the #1 guy, contemplating his legacy might be a BIT premature >.>

fallacy · Post #1215 » by **fallacy** » Fri Feb 8, 2013 8:15 pm

ardee wrote:He has a good shot at going down as a top 30 player all time, as I see it right now.

People, we're witnessing the next great shooting guard here. I don't know how anyone can deny the fact that he's 23 years old, in the alpha role for the first time, and is a top 10 player, anymore.

uhhhh, wut? He needs to have some sort of team success before we could even think about that

Krodis · Post #1216 » by **Krodis** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 2:15 am

Can't do much better than the first half today. 20 points, 8 assists on 8/8 shooting.

90sAllDecade · Post #1217 » by **90sAllDecade** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:10 am

The man is TEARING IT UP tonight.

Krodis · Post #1218 » by **Krodis** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 3:56 am

Couple misses towards the end ruined what would've been >100% TS% game. Had to settle for 35/11/7 on a mere 94% TS%.

Somehow, not even the most efficient 30 point night tonight though. LeBron did slightly better in TS%.

Dr Positivity · Post #1219 » by **Dr Positivity** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 4:00 am

This guy is just stunningly good. Top 5 player in the NBA

MisterWestside · Post #1220 » by **MisterWestside** » Sat Feb 9, 2013 4:07 am

Krodis wrote:Couple misses towards the end ruined what would've been >100% TS% game. Had to settle for 35/11/7 on a mere 94% TS%.

Somehow, not even the most efficient 30 point night tonight though. LeBron did slightly better in TS%.

Good. He had to make up for his Westbrook-like January. And posters here don't like Westbrook.