2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[Colbinii]

Also, damn, I might actually pause watching Jazz games for the first time in almost a decade. With Rudy out we suck, and now with Joe gone my favorite is out. Season has turned rough pretty quick.

Super bummed if those were Joes last NBA minutes.

I say it all the time over on the T & T Board: "If you're close to a championship, make win-now moves as Championship Windows close before you know it".

Its unfortunate because the Jazz did make a good move [Conley addition]. Shame they couldn't make another move--maybe they can move Ingles for Terrance Ross.

[GSP]

Also, damn, I might actually pause watching Jazz games for the first time in almost a decade. With Rudy out we suck, and now with Joe gone my favorite is out. Season has turned rough pretty quick.

Super bummed if those were Joes last NBA minutes.

I say it all the time over on the T & T Board: "If you're close to a championship, make win-now moves as Championship Windows close before you know it".

Its unfortunate because the Jazz did make a good move [Conley addition]. Shame they couldn't make another move--maybe they can move Ingles for Terrance Ross.

Terrence Ross and Jordan Clarkson off the bench.....

Unless they somehow get a Gary Harris type wing on buyout they're screwed IMO

[eminence]

There are players I'd still trade Ingles for (as much as it'd hurt), but if they traded him for Terrence Ross so help me.

[falcolombardi]

jazz issue is that they have too many scorers/creators, not enough stoppers

they should have built with mitchell and conley as the first and second option ball handlers, then bring as many defensive stoppers as possible

instead they have bogdanovic, clarkson, inglés as 3rd,4th,5th option for offense while getting little defense from them

too many diminishng returns compared to Defensive role players

[Doctor MJ]

Also, damn, I might actually pause watching Jazz games for the first time in almost a decade. With Rudy out we suck, and now with Joe gone my favorite is out. Season has turned rough pretty quick.

Super bummed if those were Joes last NBA minutes.

I say it all the time over on the T & T Board: "If you're close to a championship, make win-now moves as Championship Windows close before you know it".

Its unfortunate because the Jazz did make a good move [Conley addition]. Shame they couldn't make another move--maybe they can move Ingles for Terrance Ross.

So, in general, my big objection to "win now moves" is that they often don't have the effect you want.

When we look at the Jazz last year, the glaring weakness had a lot to do with not having anyone in their main 5 who could stop a hot Reggie Jackson, but while they could have prioritized getting more players to stop penetration from quick guards, you can't just put your 3/4 on the opponents' 1 and expect that your guards will be able to function against the opponents' forwards.

It's possible that even if the Jazz backcourt guys were fully healthy last year they'd have run into the same issue, and if that's the case then acquiring Mike Conley was a mistake, but I don't really think that having more guard defenders in their starting 5 was really the answer to get them past all matchup issues.

And on Conley: The thing is that on offense, he contributed a ton of value playing like an actual floor general instead of playing like a volume scorer, because a floor general is what you need to unlock Gobert as an offensive threat. Well and good to say that it would have been better to have a point guard who could play floor general and lock-down defense...but of course they'd had Rubio on the roster previously.

Sometimes, in addition to luck with health and matchups, I think it's impossible to get all the things you want with the guys you add to your roster - all the more true when you're talking about getting guys to come to Utah - and I think the Jazz really did a build a team that could have won the title last year if things broke the right way (including health), but in general they don't have a good enough superstar 2-some in Mitchell/Gobert to expect to be able to clinch this with mere good GMing.

[Colbinii]

I know most of you don't watch the team from the Land of 10,000 Lakes but Jared Vanderbilt is the perfect 4 next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

First of all, he is, without a doubt the best offensive rebounding non-center in the league and has an argument for the best offensive rebounder in the league [counting centers].

He is averaging 3.4 Oreb/G since getting consistent minutes [Starting game 4 of the season] and his Oreb% is 12.1%. Its a joy to watch him in today's NBA as he is a hawk and utilizes the spacing on the court as a weapon to cut through the lane for offensive rebounds. I have never seen someone do what he does on every single possession offensively.

Defensively he is extremely active, strong enough to hang with guys like LeBron but quick enough to defend larger 2's. He averages 1.5 steals per game and doesn't let his offensive rebounding get in the way of getting back defensively.

Extremely unique player in todays NBA.

Over 1 month later...

League Rankings

48th in +/- [Next to Caruso, P.J. Tucker, Bane and Mobley]
5th in Steals
9th in Offensive Rebounds [Only Centers ahead of him
24th in RAPTOR
32nd in EPM

[LukaTheGOAT]

Anthony Edwards last 18 games, 24.5 points per game on 62.2% TS

He might be an all-star sooner rather than later.

[Colbinii]

Anthony Edwards last 18 games, 24.5 points per game on 62.2% TS

He might be an all-star sooner rather than later.

Its crazy looking at him both in comparison to other shooting guards of today and in NBA History.

Statistically he most resembles 2nd year Kobe [Kobe being a year younger however] and he [ANT] blows guys like Booker and LaVine out of the water at this stage in their careers--and I would argue ANT's defensive potential is closer to Kobe than it is either of the other two guys.

After last year I thought his 90% outcome was [Peak/Prime] Jaylen Brown. Now I think his 90% outcome is something closer to a perennial/fringe All-NBA player.

[Statlanta]

Ironically I think consolidating for Conley before COVID was the mistake the Jazz made. It took an entire year incorporating Conley into the roster till he was the player they thought they were getting from the Grizzlies.

I think having more depth would have stopped some of their inconsistencies from injuries these COVID seasons. I'd rather keep Ingles then trade for a definite worse player like Ross or Harris.

[parsnips33]

Anthony Edwards last 18 games, 24.5 points per game on 62.2% TS

He might be an all-star sooner rather than later.

He also looks incredibly poised and confident with the ball. Even with all his crazy athleticism, it never seems like he's playing out of control

[LukaTheGOAT]

Anthony Edwards last 18 games, 24.5 points per game on 62.2% TS

He might be an all-star sooner rather than later.

He also looks incredibly poised and confident with the ball. Even with all his crazy athleticism, it never seems like he's playing out of control

That's the big thing with him. It was generally seen coming into the NBA that he would be fine as NBA shooter as a baseline to go along with his athleticism though the range outcomes with hia shooting were wide. And ideally it was expected he should be able to create with his strength, size, and smooth, but inconsistent handle. More than anything people questioned if he would ever have enough feel to be an appropriate secondary ball-handler and attack gaps when they are made available to him, or hit his teammates. Hope this continues.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Ironically I think consolidating for Conley before COVID was the mistake the Jazz made. It took an entire year incorporating Conley into the roster till he was the player they thought they were getting from the Grizzlies.

I think having more depth would have stopped some of their inconsistencies from injuries these COVID seasons. I'd rather keep Ingles then trade for a definite worse player like Ross or Harris.

They really need a defender who can maybe chase around some of the high-scoring guards they might go against such as Morant, Steph, etc. Probably need more than just 1 guy to be honest, but just having 1 would be a start. Otherwise, they could be dealing to a situation similar to last year where every wing is beating their guys off the dribble, and Rudy's in a tough bind trying to correct everything.

[falcolombardi]

seeing people still call draymond or gobert as great role players is crazy

makes me think that if you tood todays basketball media and public to the past they would say bill russel was a incredible role player for sam Jones/cousy beung the real stars

same with 72 wilt for that matter

[parsnips33]

Dispatch from the Wonderful World of Warriors:

Kevon Looney is averaging a career high 7.5 rebounds per game in just over 21 minutes a game. Since Draymond went out (14 games) he's averaging 11 rebounds per game in just 25 minutes a game. Defense has also been elite while Dray has been out. Although Loon doesn't get all the credit for that he's been a big piece.

He's also top 5 leaguewide in offensive rebound %age this year. Hot diggity!

[Colbinii]

seeing people still call draymond or gobert as great role players is crazy

makes me think that if you tood todays basketball media and public to the past they would say bill russel was a incredible role player for sam Jones/cousy beung the real stars

same with 72 wilt for that matter

Often time Humans have a weakness of categorizing things too much.

In theory, All basketball players should be viewed as an extremely complicated 3D/4D Model but to simplifying we use categories but often times the categories we attempt to use fail.

How is Draymond Green more of a role player than Zach LaVine or DeMar DeRozan? How is Rudy Gobert more of a role player than James Harden?

[LukaTheGOAT]

The San Antonio Spurs are currently 19-32 with an SRS of -0.03. If the Spurs can flip the SRS a few decimal points up to positive by the end of the season, they have a real shot at the worst winning percentage ever with a positive SRS.

The all time record is the 1977 Suns who went 34-48 with a +0.64 SRS.

Some other incredible ones are the 1998 Pistons who went 37-45 with a +1.95 SRS and the 1979 Bucks at 38-44 with a +2.12 SRS.

[Colbinii]

The San Antonio Spurs are currently 19-32 with an SRS of -0.03. If the Spurs can flip the SRS a few decimal points up to positive by the end of the season, they have a real shot at the worst winning percentage ever with a positive SRS.

The all time record is the 1977 Suns who went 34-48 with a +0.64 SRS.

Some other incredible ones are the 1998 Pistons who went 37-45 with a +1.95 SRS and the 1979 Bucks at 38-44 with a +2.12 SRS.

The 2014 Wolves were 40-42 with a 3.10 SRS.

A 3.10 SRS is a 50 win estimate

[yoyoboy]

The San Antonio Spurs are currently 19-32 with an SRS of -0.03. If the Spurs can flip the SRS a few decimal points up to positive by the end of the season, they have a real shot at the worst winning percentage ever with a positive SRS.

The all time record is the 1977 Suns who went 34-48 with a +0.64 SRS.

Some other incredible ones are the 1998 Pistons who went 37-45 with a +1.95 SRS and the 1979 Bucks at 38-44 with a +2.12 SRS.

Last year's Raptors were close.

27-45 with a -0.54 SRS. Equivalent of less than 31 wins over an 82 game season.

[yoyoboy]

Any of you guys catch the TNT show where the cast can't even pronounce or recognize half the names of the Rising Stars? And they don't even remember which teams guys are on, thinking Precious is still with the Heat. This time it was the replacement cast with guys like Wade and Lefkoe, but I'm sure the regulars would have had the same issues. I mean Kenny Smith wrote down Jared Jeffries for the ASG when he was thinking of Jaren Jackson Jr.

It's so insulting to viewers that the NBA continuously provides such pitiful "analysis" from former players who probably barely watch the games anymore because they don't need to prepare for the show when they have their reputations to ride off, and journalists who don't seem like they have the passion for the sport to put in even a little bit of work. When you watch the NFL, it's such an insane difference to actually learn something during the halftime shows or in-game commentary. To hear from people who actually know more than you instead of just being half-assed "entertainment." With the popularity of Ben Taylor's series, Lowe's columns, The Ringer, and plenty of analysis channels on YT, I'm not convinced that it's necessary for the NBA to completely dumb down its presentation to appeal to all the casual fans. Other sports are able to refrain from it, yet NBA fans have to be spoon fed hot takes, dumb generalities, and statements not backed by any data or evidence nonstop? Give fans a chance to really learn about the game and I guarantee it'll go over well.

Draymond is essentially the lone exception, and I'm glad TNT is rolling with him going forward.

[falcolombardi]

Any of you guys catch the TNT show where the cast can't even pronounce or recognize half the names of the Rising Stars? And they don't even remember which teams guys are on, thinking Precious is still with the Heat. This time it was the replacement cast with guys like Wade and Lefkoe, but I'm sure the regulars would have had the same issues. I mean Kenny Smith wrote down Jared Jeffries for the ASG when he was thinking of Jaren Jackson Jr.

It's so insulting to viewers that the NBA continuously provides such pitiful "analysis" from former players who probably barely watch the games anymore because they don't need to prepare for the show when they have their reputations to ride off, and journalists who don't seem like they have the passion for the sport to put in even a little bit of work. When you watch the NFL, it's such an insane difference to actually learn something during the halftime shows or in-game commentary. To hear from people who actually know more than you instead of just being half-assed "entertainment." With the popularity of Ben Taylor's series, Lowe's columns, The Ringer, and plenty of analysis channels on YT, I'm not convinced that it's necessary for the NBA to completely dumb down its presentation to appeal to all the casual fans. Other sports are able to refrain from it, yet NBA fans have to be spoon fed hot takes, dumb generalities, and statements not backed by any data or evidence nonstop? Give fans a chance to really learn about the game and I guarantee it'll go over well.

Draymond is essentially the lone exception, and I'm glad TNT is rolling with him going forward.

it also has downstream effects in how the public perceives basketball

the respect given to defense in baseball or football compared to basketball is a staggering difference

or the "rings only" obssesion in evaluating players

or the scoring tunnel vision

basketball is also odd in that a lot of guys that hate modern basketball and think modern players suck compared to the past shape the narrative for the greater public (skip, barkley, shaq)

that is somethingh really. really inusual if you think about it

nfl has its own share of fans who hate how the game has changed to a long distance passing game and diminishng the running game (see some similarities with 3-ball? vs mid/post game?)

but they dont have the biggest reach in media and is instead more modern players like Tony romo who like the current game and can explain it and understand it