The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[JulesWinnfield]

Lue was asked in the post game how he will use Kevin Love in game 4 if he is cleared to play.... He answered with a smile and said "Do I have to tell you?" Then paused and smiled again saying "I'm not going to tell you."

He did not come out and give Love that vote of confidence that he will start if cleared. You figure he would publicly back Love there if he intended on starting him, even at the expense of keeping Golden State guessing. That to me says all you need to know. Ty Lue is on the same page with many of us.

[kayess]

Lue was asked in the post game how he will use Kevin Love in game 4 if he is cleared to play.... He answered with a smile and said "Do I have to tell you?" Then paused and smiled again saying "I'm not going to tell you."

He did not come out and give Love that vote of confidence that he will start if cleared. You figure he would publicly back Love there if he intended on starting him, even at the expense of keeping Golden State guessing. That to me says all you need to know. Ty Lue is on the same page with many of us.

I agree with your analysis, but also don't want to get my hopes up

[Lost92Bricks]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw7SGQ1KK9k[/youtube]

[ceiling raiser]

Lue was asked in the post game how he will use Kevin Love in game 4 if he is cleared to play.... He answered with a smile and said "Do I have to tell you?" Then paused and smiled again saying "I'm not going to tell you."

He did not come out and give Love that vote of confidence that he will start if cleared. You figure he would publicly back Love there if he intended on starting him, even at the expense of keeping Golden State guessing. That to me says all you need to know. Ty Lue is on the same page with many of us.

Very interesting. I'm still not 100% sold he does it but he's not ruling it out.

[therealbig3]

BTW, I think it was tone wone that was saying that LeBron isn't a perimeter creator anymore, and is just a playmaking PF with limited range, and even if he rediscovered his jumper, he's a PF at this point? I disagree, and I think this game showed that with a decent jump shot, he's still very much the best wing in the game.

He doesn't have the freakish explosion he used to, but from what I've seen, he's still got enough quickness, explosion, and speed off the dribble to get by pretty much anyone...as long as they respect his jumper. If they don't, and LeBron can't punish them for that, then yes, he's a PF that should pretty much play exclusively in the post imo.

But the thing is, he hasn't lost THAT much athleticism, tbh. By far the biggest decline has been his outside shot. It's just that whatever he has lost athletically becomes more obvious if the only way he can generate offense is to try and break people down off the dribble and get to the hoop. As an exclusive means of offense, no, he's not as good at that as he used to be.

But with a jumper, he could be like any other superstar wing that aged gracefully, like 96-97 MJ, or 09-10 Kobe. Except I think he can be even better than they were at that point. But the jump shot is paramount to that happening. Him and Love would fit a lot better together in that case.

But Love might be unplayable for extended minutes against this specific matchup regardless.

[Quotatious]

I was pretty sure that Cleveland would bounce back at home, but damn, I really didn't expect THIS...Is it the biggest turnaround in finals history, as far as point differential between two consecutive games? GSW won game 2 by 33, now CLE won game 3 by 30...I don't remember anything like that happening before.

[Heej]

Posted this on RCF:

So I think Kyrie tipped off the Doc Rivers influence from Lue consulting with him when he said they weren't switching as much and the bigs played "up to touch." That scheme is in between a hard hedge and dropping on the PnR on the aggressiveness scale where the big comes up level with the screener and the ballhandler and scurries back to the roll man.

Doc has Deandre Jordan do this a lot to take advantage of his foot speed but still allow him to be close enough to get back into defensive rebounding position. This only works if the guard can fight through screens. Kyrie is making this scheme change work right now and he needs to be commended for it.

Also love how we stopped being cute and attacking switches with isos on everyone and basically just went at Steph over and over. Steph caused their scheme to collapsed while Kyrie allowed ours to flourish. Bodes well for the cavs big time going forward.

To add to the Love discussion here the Warriors bench lineup is another starting unit, Cleveland has played the starters to a standstill all series and gotten destroyed by the bench. Love featured against them could be big time keeping another elite offensive rebounder in all game. LeBron Love Frye with Lebron taking RJs spot and Love taking Lebrons spot on the Horns rub play they like to run with Delly would be killer. That warriors bench had run roughshod on the Cavs and the Cavs know it. That's why in the postgame presser Lebron talked about how it's not cavs starters vs GS starters it's 1-15. I think Love has to do it.

[Heej]

I was pretty sure that Cleveland would bounce back at home, but damn, I really didn't expect THIS...Is it the biggest turnaround in finals history, as far as point differential between two consecutive games? GSW won game 2 by 33, now CLE won game 3 by 30...I don't remember anything like that happening before.

Not quite to this scale but 2013 Finals I remember being seemingly blowout after blowout as each team showed their cards until the last 3 games their hands were exhausted and it came down to executing.

[Dr Spaceman]

BTW, I think it was tone wone that was saying that LeBron isn't a perimeter creator anymore, and is just a playmaking PF with limited range, and even if he rediscovered his jumper, he's a PF at this point? I disagree, and I think this game showed that with a decent jump shot, he's still very much the best wing in the game.

He doesn't have the freakish explosion he used to, but from what I've seen, he's still got enough quickness, explosion, and speed off the dribble to get by pretty much anyone...as long as they respect his jumper. If they don't, and LeBron can't punish them for that, then yes, he's a PF that should pretty much play exclusively in the post imo.

But the thing is, he hasn't lost THAT much athleticism, tbh. By far the biggest decline has been his outside shot. It's just that whatever he has lost athletically becomes more obvious if the only way he can generate offense is to try and break people down off the dribble and get to the hoop. As an exclusive means of offense, no, he's not as good at that as he used to be.

But with a jumper, he could be like any other superstar wing that aged gracefully, like 96-97 MJ, or 09-10 Kobe. Except I think he can be even better than they were at that point. But the jump shot is paramount to that happening. Him and Love would fit a lot better together in that case.

But Love might be unplayable for extended minutes against this specific matchup regardless.

You're reading it as a criticism though, when I don't think it was meant that way. At this point of his career, with the skills he currently possesses, LeBron simply poses more of a problem for defenses playing at the 4. It gives him more space to work with his paint game, he can play better defense when he's not tasked with playing the lead ball handler, and he simply can't be guarded by anyone playing the 4 in the current NBA.

We just saw Cleveland pull off a 60 point swing in terms of point differential with a lineup of Kyrie/Smith/RJ/LeBron/Thompson. At least to me, that's a clear sign of where this thing is headed.

[Krodis]

They stopped forcing stupid isolations which helped their offense a lot, the Warriors are way too good defensively at containing that. Obviously they shot extremely well, better than you can reasonably expect going forward considering the looks they got imo.

I think pinning too much of the turnaround on Love is a bit hot takey for my tastes. Sure he's not a great match up versus the Warriors but a lot of other things changed that contributed to the turnaround that didn't have much to do with Kevin Love's absence.

[JulesWinnfield]

It's only 3 games, and I'm not trying to paint the picture of Lebron having an epic series thusfar or anything of the sort (great last night though), but he has definitely been the best player on either team through 3 games.... Can we all agree that this is the 5th consecutive finals we could say that? I don't think that's up for debate, including losses in '14 and '15. That's kind of what makes this whole finals record thing so incredibly dumb, and why I'm rooting harder than ever for him to get this done. It's just so damn unfair. If the best player on the floor always won the series he would be working on a 5 peat right now

[ppedro123]

It's only 3 games, and I'm not trying to paint the picture of Lebron having an epic series thusfar or anything of the sort (great last night though), but he has definitely been the best player on either team through 3 games.... Can we all agree that this is the 5th consecutive finals we could say that? I don't think that's up for debate, including losses in '14 and '15. That's kind of what makes this whole finals record thing so incredibly dumb, and why I'm rooting harder than ever for him to get this done. It's just so damn unfair. If the best player on the floor always won the series the would be working on a 5 peat right now

Curry's stans think Steph was better in last year's Finals.

[kayess]

It's only 3 games, and I'm not trying to paint the picture of Lebron having an epic series thusfar or anything of the sort (great last night though), but he has definitely been the best player on either team through 3 games.... Can we all agree that this is the 5th consecutive finals we could say that? I don't think that's up for debate, including losses in '14 and '15. That's kind of what makes this whole finals record thing so incredibly dumb, and why I'm rooting harder than ever for him to get this done. It's just so damn unfair. If the best player on the floor always won the series he would be working on a 5 peat right now

He's the best player on either team, but right now it's not really saying much.

That said, I never realized that. LeBron's last 5 CF/Finals runs:

2012: Turns in a GOAT-level performance to save them from elimination. Comes back from 1-0 down and enables the three point shooting flurry of the Heat.
2013: Game winner, dismantles the Pacers on O. Loses his jumper, but leads a comeback in game 6 against the Spurs, and there's that game 7
2014: Outside of the WOAT game due to foul trouble, flexes his complete skillset on O. Continues into the Finals, could've been up 2-0 on the road, but cramps up. I wanna say he could've shot more - but the Spurs actually increased their lead in his 20 point quarters
2015: Atlanta was overmatched, clean sweep. Almost up 3-0 against the Warriors, entire team literally can't make anything without him. Singlehandedly makes the series close

He has a reasonable claim as the best player in 5 straight Finals. I think Kawhi had more EV in 2014 though (as per ElGee)

[MisterHibachi]

If they win this series that could very well wind up being the most replayed highlight of his entire career. It's on the very short list. It's like the Hakeem move on David Robinson or the Jordan lefty layup vs the Lakers. If they lose it largely gets lost to history and blends in with a million other highlights he has given us

I actually didn't realize he stole that ball from Curry to set up the alley. Definitely an iconic play if they win the series.

[MisterHibachi]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/740770642027532294[/tweet]

[Sedale Threatt]

BTW, I think it was tone wone that was saying that LeBron isn't a perimeter creator anymore, and is just a playmaking PF with limited range, and even if he rediscovered his jumper, he's a PF at this point? I disagree, and I think this game showed that with a decent jump shot, he's still very much the best wing in the game.

He doesn't have the freakish explosion he used to, but from what I've seen, he's still got enough quickness, explosion, and speed off the dribble to get by pretty much anyone...as long as they respect his jumper. If they don't, and LeBron can't punish them for that, then yes, he's a PF that should pretty much play exclusively in the post imo.

But the thing is, he hasn't lost THAT much athleticism, tbh. By far the biggest decline has been his outside shot. It's just that whatever he has lost athletically becomes more obvious if the only way he can generate offense is to try and break people down off the dribble and get to the hoop. As an exclusive means of offense, no, he's not as good at that as he used to be.

But with a jumper, he could be like any other superstar wing that aged gracefully, like 96-97 MJ, or 09-10 Kobe. Except I think he can be even better than they were at that point. But the jump shot is paramount to that happening. Him and Love would fit a lot better together in that case.

But Love might be unplayable for extended minutes against this specific matchup regardless.

You're reading it as a criticism though, when I don't think it was meant that way. At this point of his career, with the skills he currently possesses, LeBron simply poses more of a problem for defenses playing at the 4. It gives him more space to work with his paint game, he can play better defense when he's not tasked with playing the lead ball handler, and he simply can't be guarded by anyone playing the 4 in the current NBA.

We just saw Cleveland pull off a 60 point swing in terms of point differential with a lineup of Kyrie/Smith/RJ/LeBron/Thompson. At least to me, that's a clear sign of where this thing is headed.

I've been saying this for a couple of years: He needs to get tape of Magic's last few seasons and pattern his game on that. The majority of what Magic did at that point was just back down smaller guards, bull his way to the basket or create for teammates out of the double team. Teams generally weren't very creative back then with how they handled matchups, so LeBron would have to deal with bigger defenders. But he's still got more than enough quickness, strength and especially court vision to dominate. Indeed, he played some of his best basketball in Miami at PF. So if he has to pick one or the other, and maybe he doesn't, I'd much rather see him start moving closer to the basket and posting up more.

[PCProductions]

JR hitting those threes was huge this game. He definitely seems like the X-factor to me.

[MisterHibachi]

Kerr has some interesting decisions to make. Warriors starting line up with Bogut is a net negative in this series so far. He can either ride with it and hope they turn it around, which isn't out of the question, or he starts Iggy. In the second case, their bench gets a lot weaker. Here's where Lue can gain the upper hand by benching Love and having him play with that Frye-LeBron-Delly unit to start the second. That should be a potent offensive lineup, and no Kyrie means you only really have to cover for Love (Frye I think is a decent enough defender to hold his own against their bench bigs). If W's starting line up can't pull its weight and Kerr has to start the Death line up, the bench story could flip on its head. Hopefully it works out in the Cavs favor.

[PaulieWal]

IMO it's time to start the death lineup. There are only 4 games remaining at the most in the RS. No need to ride Bogut now. Just go for the kill.

[G35]

They stopped forcing stupid isolations which helped their offense a lot, the Warriors are way too good defensively at containing that. Obviously they shot extremely well, better than you can reasonably expect going forward considering the looks they got imo.

I think pinning too much of the turnaround on Love is a bit hot takey for my tastes. Sure he's not a great match up versus the Warriors but a lot of other things changed that contributed to the turnaround that didn't have much to do with Kevin Love's absence.

I agree, I think Kyrie was the main protagonist that the Warriors could not handle. Lebron played the way he should for the Cavs to succeed. I think if he cut/flashed through the middle more it would create havoc with the Warriors defense. I do think the shooting was superb for the Cavs and that will have to continue for the rest of the series which may prove difficult as the Warriors inevitably adapt.

I don't think there would have been much difference with or without Love on the floor. The Cavs were ready for this game and the Warriors are known for coming out poorly in G3's. Desperate energy + home court fans = good things, the Warriors can sometimes get lackadaisical (Curry has been lazy with his ball handling all year). I don't think the Cavs can pin their hopes on Richard Jefferson when the Warriors have countermoves they can make. I think the Cavs huge edge in rebounding (52-32) was also a big factor; Tristan was once again huge on the offensive boards with seven and the Cavs as a whole had 17 OREB's. The only issue is when can Love play, because I don't think Love/Thompson/Lebron can all be on the floor at the same time.

The others played well this game, can't complain about their performance......