The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6)

[MyUniBroDavis]

Rating out James/Davis

James +5.5 O / +1.5 D
Davis +3.5 O / +3.0 D

Both right around +6.5-7 range.

Don't know if we've had two guys at that level simultaneously before. 01 Shaq/Kobe and 91-93 Jordan/Pip combined were better, but that's off the back of Shaq/Jordan being at their peaks and ahead of either 20 James/Davis, so those duos were slightly more imbalanced. Here we might have two +6/7 guys at the same time.

Maybe KAJ/Magic in 1980, that might be a close comp.

1980 Magic is nowhere close to +7 level, though. Rating LeBron and Davis so highly I can't see how the others are better, unless you go to +9 for peak Jordan or something.

You're right. Looking at my own old notes I have Magic nowhere near that level in 1980.

Jordan/Pip I have at +8/+5 in 91/92 so they're close. Shaq/Kobe at 8/4.25 in 00 and 7.5/5.25 in 01 so right under the Bulls.

I guess I'll re-evaluate with more distance from this season, but I don't think my ratings for James/Davis seem wild. I have Lebron way off from his 14/17/18 offense and below 09-13/16 on defense. Maybe I'm giving Davis a bit too much credit on O, but even if I dock half a point he's +6 overall.

Is this based off their playoff run or in general?

[kayess]

Get your pitchforks out everyone, but I think Rondo might be the guy to push this team over the top. He just thrives in the playoffs. His mentality, intelligence, mental level is just at such a high point. Don't expect his outside shot to keep falling like this but he's been a stud in this series. Definitely has been a leader to some of the younger/less experienced guys too.

I don't know if we've seen too smarter and more seasoned guys play together in the playoffs in a long time with Lebron and Rondo. It will be a real struggle to get anything past the Lakers when one of them is on the court, especially late in a series. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Great point about the smartest duo we've seen in a while. Most recent duo with this much crystallized bball IQ may be MJ/Scottie tbh. Or perhaps Timmy D and Manu. I think LeBron > Timmy at this point and Rondo=Manu IQ-wise tho so it's barely in this duos favor. Good call on that. Very high level quarterbacking/middle-linebacking from both players. Love to see it.

Re: AD vs Lebron. If AD keeps his mid-range j going the way he's been doing I have no problem saying he's outplayed LeBron in the post-season. Part of me says there's a regression coming to both his and LeBron's shooting, but this is the bubble and maybe they're just gonna shoot better here.

I just threw up in my mouth a little at the assertion that Rondo's BBIQ = Manu's.

I guess there could be an argument. Rondo's lows are way lower (not pushing the pace enough, assist hunting) than Manu's though (just mind-bogglingly stupid turnovers)

Like one other poster said, AD's making Dirk look like a second rate shooter right now. Don't think this is his real jumpshooting level, but he's obviously uber talented enough to keep a hot streak going like this all the way to the chip.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Get your pitchforks out everyone, but I think Rondo might be the guy to push this team over the top. He just thrives in the playoffs. His mentality, intelligence, mental level is just at such a high point. Don't expect his outside shot to keep falling like this but he's been a stud in this series. Definitely has been a leader to some of the younger/less experienced guys too.

I don't know if we've seen too smarter and more seasoned guys play together in the playoffs in a long time with Lebron and Rondo. It will be a real struggle to get anything past the Lakers when one of them is on the court, especially late in a series. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Great point about the smartest duo we've seen in a while. Most recent duo with this much crystallized bball IQ may be MJ/Scottie tbh. Or perhaps Timmy D and Manu. I think LeBron > Timmy at this point and Rondo=Manu IQ-wise tho so it's barely in this duos favor. Good call on that. Very high level quarterbacking/middle-linebacking from both players. Love to see it.

Re: AD vs Lebron. If AD keeps his mid-range j going the way he's been doing I have no problem saying he's outplayed LeBron in the post-season. Part of me says there's a regression coming to both his and LeBron's shooting, but this is the bubble and maybe they're just gonna shoot better here.

I just threw up in my mouth a little at the assertion that Rondo's BBIQ = Manu's.

I guess there could be an argument. Rondo's lows are way lower (not pushing the pace enough, assist hunting) than Manu's though (just mind-bogglingly stupid turnovers)

Like one other poster said, AD's making Dirk look like a second rate shooter right now. Don't think this is his real jumpshooting level, but he's obviously uber talented enough to keep a hot streak going like this all the way to the chip.

I mean theres a difference between iq and ability to apply it

In terms of pure bball knowledge rondos probably one of the absolute top in the league but his decision makinf can be suspect

[E-Balla]

Great point about the smartest duo we've seen in a while. Most recent duo with this much crystallized bball IQ may be MJ/Scottie tbh. Or perhaps Timmy D and Manu. I think LeBron > Timmy at this point and Rondo=Manu IQ-wise tho so it's barely in this duos favor. Good call on that. Very high level quarterbacking/middle-linebacking from both players. Love to see it.

Re: AD vs Lebron. If AD keeps his mid-range j going the way he's been doing I have no problem saying he's outplayed LeBron in the post-season. Part of me says there's a regression coming to both his and LeBron's shooting, but this is the bubble and maybe they're just gonna shoot better here.

I just threw up in my mouth a little at the assertion that Rondo's BBIQ = Manu's.

I guess there could be an argument. Rondo's lows are way lower (not pushing the pace enough, assist hunting) than Manu's though (just mind-bogglingly stupid turnovers)

Like one other poster said, AD's making Dirk look like a second rate shooter right now. Don't think this is his real jumpshooting level, but he's obviously uber talented enough to keep a hot streak going like this all the way to the chip.

I mean theres a difference between iq and ability to apply it

In terms of pure bball knowledge rondos probably one of the absolute top in the league but his decision makinf can be suspect

Yeah even for all this temperament issues Rondo will probably be an amazing coach one day because of his understanding of the game.

[SideshowBob]

Rating out James/Davis

James +5.5 O / +1.5 D
Davis +3.5 O / +3.0 D

Both right around +6.5-7 range.

Don't know if we've had two guys at that level simultaneously before. 01 Shaq/Kobe and 91-93 Jordan/Pip combined were better, but that's off the back of Shaq/Jordan being at their peaks and ahead of either 20 James/Davis, so those duos were slightly more imbalanced. Here we might have two +6/7 guys at the same time.

Maybe KAJ/Magic in 1980, that might be a close comp.

1971 Oscar and Kareem?

Nah. I had Oscar peaking in the mid-60s at like 5.5-6ish.

Is 2020 AD clearly better than 18 or 19 for you, or do you think he's been at a +6ish level for a while??

I didn't watch enough RS basketball in 2019 to say. I'd say a notch above 2018 though.

Is this based off their playoff run or in general?

General.

[Heej]

Get your pitchforks out everyone, but I think Rondo might be the guy to push this team over the top. He just thrives in the playoffs. His mentality, intelligence, mental level is just at such a high point. Don't expect his outside shot to keep falling like this but he's been a stud in this series. Definitely has been a leader to some of the younger/less experienced guys too.

I don't know if we've seen too smarter and more seasoned guys play together in the playoffs in a long time with Lebron and Rondo. It will be a real struggle to get anything past the Lakers when one of them is on the court, especially late in a series. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

Great point about the smartest duo we've seen in a while. Most recent duo with this much crystallized bball IQ may be MJ/Scottie tbh. Or perhaps Timmy D and Manu. I think LeBron > Timmy at this point and Rondo=Manu IQ-wise tho so it's barely in this duos favor. Good call on that. Very high level quarterbacking/middle-linebacking from both players. Love to see it.

Re: AD vs Lebron. If AD keeps his mid-range j going the way he's been doing I have no problem saying he's outplayed LeBron in the post-season. Part of me says there's a regression coming to both his and LeBron's shooting, but this is the bubble and maybe they're just gonna shoot better here.

I just threw up in my mouth a little at the assertion that Rondo's BBIQ = Manu's.

I guess there could be an argument. Rondo's lows are way lower (not pushing the pace enough, assist hunting) than Manu's though (just mind-bogglingly stupid turnovers)

Like one other poster said, AD's making Dirk look like a second rate shooter right now. Don't think this is his real jumpshooting level, but he's obviously uber talented enough to keep a hot streak going like this all the way to the chip.

Overexaggeration much? They're very comparable pure IQ-wise wtf lol

[bballcool34]

Yeah the other aspect of Rondo’s IQ which tends to get overlooked - partially because of his lack of effort and diminished athleticism - is his ability to recognize patterns on the defensive end.

He’s in the LeBron, Paul territory where he can be a QB on that end - and enable his teammates - even if he isn’t always the executor those guys are. That level of two way IQ is pretty rare.

[Homer38]

Are you agree with Chris Bosh?

Watch on YouTube

[Heej]

Are you agree with Chris Bosh?

Watch on YouTube

NGL man there's a big part of me that wonders if 2014 is actually Peak Lebron. We've seen what he can do on defense in all the surrounding years. I feel like we don't look at that season's play in a vacuum. I think I'll go with 2017 but idk man 2014 Lebron with the kind of firepower around him that 2017 had might have been insane. That being said tho, LeBron's IQ got soooo much higher in those later years imo that the extended rests in playoffs might actually give that version an edge.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Are you agree with Chris Bosh?

Watch on YouTube

NGL man there's a big part of me that wonders if 2014 is actually Peak Lebron. We've seen what he can do on defense in all the surrounding years. I feel like we don't look at that season's play in a vacuum. I think I'll go with 2017 but idk man 2014 Lebron with the kind of firepower around him that 2017 had might have been insane. That being said tho, LeBron's IQ got soooo much higher in those later years imo that the extended rests in playoffs might actually give that version an edge.

2016 finals lebron converted me so im going with that year lmao

Made me go through 4 straifht years of being on the losing end, im 8/2 past 10 years i think lol

[Heej]

Are you agree with Chris Bosh?

Watch on YouTube

NGL man there's a big part of me that wonders if 2014 is actually Peak Lebron. We've seen what he can do on defense in all the surrounding years. I feel like we don't look at that season's play in a vacuum. I think I'll go with 2017 but idk man 2014 Lebron with the kind of firepower around him that 2017 had might have been insane. That being said tho, LeBron's IQ got soooo much higher in those later years imo that the extended rests in playoffs might actually give that version an edge.

2016 finals lebron converted me so im going with that year lmao

Made me go through 4 straifht years of being on the losing end, im 8/2 past 10 years i think lol

Lmao this boutta be dumb as hell but I'm one of those that thinks winning a chip makes you better loll so I can't put 2016 over 2017. Especially with the shooting improvement

[TheGOATRises007]

Rockets look dead in the water and Lebron senses the kill.

[Homer38]

Now,need to keep the focus....

[limbo]

''Apparently, if you don't have size you can't finish layups under the rim, despite AD barely trying to contest.''

- Houston Rockets

[MisterHibachi]

Lakers smelling blood in the water tonight.

[Fadeaway_J]

LeBron seems to snatch Westbrook's soul at least once every game.

[TheGOATRises007]

Lebron has owned Westbrook all series for rim protection.

[dreamshake]

LeHibbert with the block

[MisterHibachi]

Lebron has owned Westbrook all series for rim protection.

It's kinda crazy that LeBron is still athletic enough to bully an athlete like Westbrook. He seems to have hunted him all series to get in his head.

[MisterHibachi]

Read on Twitter

?s=19