2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[Peregrine01]

The on-ball creation that the Lakers have with Bron and Luka means that they’ll never hurt for a bad look. I think they’re a real threat to OKC.

Two pretty bad looks at the end there … and Luka is gonna have foul issues every other game just like he did in the Finals.

The more I watch the more I feel that while we have a lot of good teams that elite level of OKC Boston Cleveland is just another tier of basketball

I’m talking about the match-up and I think the Lakers match up really well against OKC.

[Ron Swanson]

Do we think that Luka has become a net positive on defense over the past 2 seasons? His metrics seem to be positive now

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

I'd agree with this, but Luka in last year's Finals was some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star player non that stage in all my years of watching basketball. Dude was an absolute traffic cone out there.

[tsherkin]

Do we think that Luka has become a net positive on defense over the past 2 seasons? His metrics seem to be positive now

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

I'd agree with this, but Luka in last year's Finals was some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star player non that stage in all my years of watching basketball. Dude was an absolute traffic cone out there.

This was the same Finals where he was bleeding out of his knee the entire time and obviously hobbled, yes?

[Ron Swanson]

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

I'd agree with this, but Luka in last year's Finals was some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star player non that stage in all my years of watching basketball. Dude was an absolute traffic cone out there.

This was the same Finals where he was bleeding out of his knee the entire time and obviously hobbled, yes?

Sure, he was hurt, but weird that he seemed to hold up "fine" against Minnesota the round prior. I'm just kinda done with the injury excuses with him. A player who constantly demonstrates poor conditioning and poor defensive instincts/effort doesn't really get a pass from me if they always seem to be "playing hurt". Not being able to move well laterally is one thing, but the pathetic effort and complete cluelessness/ball-watching that he was doing in that series was crazy to see happen in real time. You can't blame half that stuff on a gimpy knee.

[tsherkin]

Sure, he was hurt, but weird that he seemed to hold up "fine" against Minnesota the round prior. I'm just kinda done with the injury excuses with him. A player who constantly demonstrates poor conditioning and poor defensive instincts/effort doesn't really get a pass from me if they always seem to be "playing hurt". Not being able to move well laterally is one thing, but the pathetic effort and complete cluelessness/ball-watching that he was doing in that series was crazy to see happen in real time. You can't blame half that stuff on a gimpy knee.

Yeah, he's consistently not a good defender. But when you make qualifying statements about "some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star," then those contributing factors do become relevant to the overall picture.

[Peregrine01]

I'd agree with this, but Luka in last year's Finals was some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star player non that stage in all my years of watching basketball. Dude was an absolute traffic cone out there.

This was the same Finals where he was bleeding out of his knee the entire time and obviously hobbled, yes?

Sure, he was hurt, but weird that he seemed to hold up "fine" against Minnesota the round prior. I'm just kinda done with the injury excuses with him. A player who constantly demonstrates poor conditioning and poor defensive instincts/effort doesn't really get a pass from me if they always seem to be "playing hurt". Not being able to move well laterally is one thing, but the pathetic effort and complete cluelessness/ball-watching that he was doing in that series was crazy to see happen in real time. You can't blame half that stuff on a gimpy knee.

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

[tsherkin]

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

That's another good point. Teams are much more punishing if they can put you on an island in space because of the way they stretch the floor.

[RCM88x]

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

That's another good point. Teams are much more punishing if they can put you on an island in space because of the way they stretch the floor.

Probably the biggest reason why despite the recent surge, LAL isn't a real contender. You need to go through teams like this to win it all, and they just aren't equipped to do that consistently currently. If somehow they manage to avoid OKC, Boston and I guess Cleveland during the postseason they have as good of a shot as anyone else.

[Special_Puppy]

Do we think that Luka has become a net positive on defense over the past 2 seasons? His metrics seem to be positive now

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

One thing I noticed is that all else being equal, your reputation on defense gets worse the better you are on offense. And you reputation on defense gets better the worse you are on offense.

[falcolombardi]

The on-ball creation that the Lakers have with Bron and Luka means that they’ll never hurt for a bad look. I think they’re a real threat to OKC.

The Lakers offense hasn’t been as great as you’d expect given that idea. It’s been good, but nowhere near the top offenses of the league

Is more about high floor and resiliency which i think they are well built to have, lebron and luka are very good at providing both of those thinghs to a offense

On the other end, i think some of their defensive work will tire them out and they will drop a bit from their current defensive run

[tsherkin]

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

That's another good point. Teams are much more punishing if they can put you on an island in space because of the way they stretch the floor.

Probably the biggest reason why despite the recent surge, LAL isn't a real contender. You need to go through teams like this to win it all, and they just aren't equipped to do that consistently currently. If somehow they manage to avoid OKC, Boston and I guess Cleveland during the postseason they have as good of a shot as anyone else.

Sure. Their lack of a frontcourt presence is an issue, there are questions about their defense, etc. We'll see what happens, but they will have their challenges, especially against a team like OKC.

[parsnips33]

Warriors have come back from down 20 to win twice in the 11 games with Jimmy Butler. Only did it once prior to acquiring him this season.

More than any specific on-the-court thing, the confidence that Butler has given this team has been the biggest impact I think. They really believe they can win any game.

[Peregrine01]

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

That's another good point. Teams are much more punishing if they can put you on an island in space because of the way they stretch the floor.

Probably the biggest reason why despite the recent surge, LAL isn't a real contender. You need to go through teams like this to win it all, and they just aren't equipped to do that consistently currently. If somehow they manage to avoid OKC, Boston and I guess Cleveland during the postseason they have as good of a shot as anyone else.

The reasons why I think they match up well with OKC are mainly two-fold:
1) OKC doesn't have the size to really punish the Lakers inside
2) Lakers have a lot of big wing defenders to throw at OKC's wings - especially if Vando is healthy

Shai is great of course but there's some Harden in his game and he benefits from a fairly friendly whistle. In the playoffs, that whistle gets tighter and is a reason why Harden has struggled to replicate his impact in the regular season. But unlike Harden, Shai doesn't have the body to bully guys through contact so I suspect that he may have even more difficulty getting into the paint when more physicality is allowed.

On the flip side, a big reason why Luka and Lebron are so sturdy in the playoffs is because they're just huge wings and defenders just bounce off of them. The playoffs have historically shown that size becomes even more of a premium.

[capfan33]

Boston was also uniquely able to expose his defense with how spread out their offense is. Minny wasn’t.

That's another good point. Teams are much more punishing if they can put you on an island in space because of the way they stretch the floor.

Boston was just a buzz saw that was a perfect storm to make Luka look bad. Best guard defensive tandem possibly ever which completely took Kyrie out of the game and forced Luka to do everything offensively, and the ability to 5 out and just target Luka over and over. His defense was all time bad but it was an impossible situation.

[tsherkin]

Boston was just a buzz saw that was a perfect storm to make Luka look bad. Best guard defensive tandem possibly ever which completely took Kyrie out of the game and forced Luka to do everything offensively, and the ability to 5 out and just target Luka over and over. His defense was all time bad but it was an impossible situation.

Boston was a good team. Their O actually collapsed pretty badly against Dallas, but they were very effective at attacking Luka particularly. If Dallas had any ability to hit shots against the Celtics in that series, there would have been a very different outcome. Remember, Boston was -12.2 ORTG in the Finals vs. their regular season offense.

[parsnips33]

2 big stories on De'Aaron Fox leaving Sac dropping on the same day on ESPN and The Athletic

Rich Paul is relentless

[Dr Positivity]

I'm always amazed that SGA's WS/48 is as high as Jokic when the latter couldn't be more perfect for that stat.

[AEnigma]

Not enough wins.

[jalengreen]

Draymond is insufferable man

[RCM88x]

I'm always amazed that SGA's WS/48 is as high as Jokic when the latter couldn't be more perfect for that stat.

Team record matters a lot with WS/48