2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[EmpireFalls]

I'm always amazed that SGA's WS/48 is as high as Jokic when the latter couldn't be more perfect for that stat.

You guys need to stop viewing Jokic as inherently having an advanced stats edge on SGA. Aside from the Neanderthal PER box score stuff, Shai is having one of the most impactful seasons of all time.

It’s a bias that stems from previous Jokic seasons but doesn’t hold true this year, at all. Shai is right there with him in every advanced stat, and deservedly so.

[falcolombardi]

Do we think that Luka has become a net positive on defense over the past 2 seasons? His metrics seem to be positive now

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

Honestly would argue the opposite

Stars can more often than not get a little to a freaking lot of benefit of the doubt in the defensive end, sometimes to the point of gettin defensive praise and accolades long after stopping being plus defenders (kobe)

The effort is kind of a pointless hypothetical because being good enough to play good D while still carryng a offensive load effectively is so rare that it i what makes 2-way players so valuable. Playing good on only one end at a time is a lot easier

One thing I noticed is that all else being equal, your reputation on defense gets worse the better you are on offense. And you reputation on defense gets better the worse you are on offense.

[TheGOATRises007]

What a performance from Jokic

He is just incredible

[Ambrose]

Do we think that Luka has become a net positive on defense over the past 2 seasons? His metrics seem to be positive now

I think the denigration of offensive superstars with massive offensive load was always a bit unfair. Given how important these guys are on offense, it just doesn’t make sense for them to expend a lot of energy on defense - especially during the regular season.

I'd agree with this, but Luka in last year's Finals was some of the worst defense I've ever seen from a star player non that stage in all my years of watching basketball. Dude was an absolute traffic cone out there.

The series where Boston was held to their worst playoff offense by a mile and like 13 points below their RS ORTG?

[Special_Puppy]

Am I dumb for thinking of the Clippers as a dark horse contender?

[tsherkin]

Am I dumb for thinking of the Clippers as a dark horse contender?

I don't think they are legitimate contenders at all. They're too crap on offense. They're a great defense right now, but they won't be healthy in the playoffs, they're 6-9 over their last 15, and there are a bunch of other teams who are a lot better.

[TheGOATRises007]

Am I dumb for thinking of the Clippers as a dark horse contender?

Kawhi is no longer an all-nba player and Harden's declined a lot.

Don't see them doing anything in the playoffs.

[70sFan]

Am I dumb for thinking of the Clippers as a dark horse contender?

Kawhi is no longer an all-nba player and Harden's declined a lot.

Don't see them doing anything in the playoffs.

They have all-star center though.

[70sFan]

Am I dumb for thinking of the Clippers as a dark horse contender?

I don't see them contending, but I will be on their side in any possible series, outside of the one against Houston.

[jalengreen]

Funny how quickly that went from a good game to OKC padding their historic net rating

[Doctor MJ]

Let me just put on record that OKC's bigs seemed to handle Jokic nicely today. More reason to see the Thunder as the favorites.

[bigboi]

Shai flat out looked better than Jokic. These bs box stats have some of you fooled lmao. Jokic is center version of Westbrook. I’ll always give him props for the finals run but other than that. Lmao. Shai is the best player in basketball rn.

[IlikeSHAIguys]

Funny how quickly that went from a good game to OKC padding their historic net rating

feel like this happens every game lol.

[TheGOATRises007]

Shai flat out looked better than Jokic. These bs box stats have some of you fooled lmao. Jokic is center version of Westbrook. I’ll always give him props for the finals run but other than that. Lmao. Shai is the best player in basketball rn.

You're a troll

And a terrible troll too

[parsnips33]

Draymond confidently pulling the 3 with 10 seconds on the shot clock down 1 with only 40 left in the game was so funny

Not always there when you call, but he's always on time

[RCM88x]

Funny how quickly that went from a good game to OKC padding their historic net rating

feel like this happens every game lol.

Lot of Cavs games have felt like that too this season.

I think they're 47-0 when leading after 3 quarters though, Thunder are pretty close to that iirc?

[sp6r=underrated]

Since the Luka trade, 5 worse teams by MOV and 5 best

Code: Select all

Team                   Wins   Losses    MOV
Charlotte Hornets       3       14     -14.5
Philadelphia 76ers      3       13     - 8.6
New Orleans Pelicans    5       11     - 8.1
Dallas Mavericks        6       10     - 7.8
Utah Jazz               4       13     - 7.1


5 Best Teams by MOV

Code: Select all

Team                       Wins   Losses   MOV
Cleveland Cavs             15       1      15.0
Oklahoma City Thunder      15       2      14.9
Golden State Warriors      12       4       9.5
Detroit Pistons            12       5       9.5
Boston Celtics             12       3       8.5

[/quote]

Stray thoughts
1. The Butler trade gave GSW one last puncher's chance at a title. I don't think they will win it but they could raise 1 more if everything bounces their way. Considering what they gave up that has to be considered a huge success.

2. OKC and CLE are just skull crushing the NBA as they have all season. I understand the skepticism of both team but strictly on performance so far they are the clear favorites for the title. I rank OKC title odds as better than CLE just because the other top flight contender is Boston and they are in the same conference.

3. For the first time in a generation Pistons fans have to feel good about their team. I don't see their young core as one that could develop into legit title contenders but they have the pieces of a very good team that fans can enjoy watching.

4. Everyone at the time thought the Dallas trade was a bad idea and the first month actually went worse than people expected.

AD wasn't able to make it through a full game before suffering a major injury. After a couple of years of good health he had a shook the "Day to Davis" meme. But it is back in full force. Unfairly to him he also has basically no goodwill with Dallas fans. They look at him as Nico's guy in the Luka trade which they never wanted. Even if he had been healthy and played at the Boston game level for the last month fans would have animosity. The venom could get real bad if he isn't able to demonstrate significant lift and health next year. And if he carries himself like he did in New Orleans, pouting about being on a mediocre team, it will get venomous.

I am not Kyrie fan. I wouldn't vote for him for the HOF but I do feel bad for him. He suffered an injury that is basically a career ender. When he comes back, best case scenario, is in a full year as an above average guard.

Just a total trainwreck. I don't know anything about Nico as a person but his professional behavior has been that of a coward. He's willing to sit among fans at Lakers games but hides in the tunnel for Mavericks games. He should be a man, sit among the crowd and let them boo him. And he should tell the Mavericks owners, fire Nico chants are acceptable. Instead he's being a total punk.

[f4p]

Funny how quickly that went from a good game to OKC padding their historic net rating

feel like this happens every game lol.

Lot of Cavs games have felt like that too this season.

I think they're 47-0 when leading after 3 quarters though, Thunder are pretty close to that iirc?

which makes it even more insane that the thunder blew a 19 point lead with 6 minutes to go (and 12 points with 2 minutes to go) to minnesota. like that's one of those "the last 1500 teams with such and such a lead have won" type situations and it happened against the most dominant regular season team in a while. such a weird game.

[f4p]

2. OKC and CLE are just skull crushing the NBA as they have all season. I understand the skepticism of both team but strictly on performance so far they are the clear favorites for the title.

i don't understand how anyone can be skeptical of OKC. they are putting up a historic net rating and have a clear MVP level player having a historically good year. those types of teams basically always win the title. OKC is going to win the title unless they get a major injury. and then one day they're going to use their million draft picks to get another all-star/superstar and probably rack up 4 or 5 titles during this run and probably take a run at 74 wins one season. unless they run out of money to pay everyone but that doesn't seem like a threat for now.

cleveland skepticism is much easier to understand. they are more like watching a better version of that "4 all-star" hawks team that started 40-8. mitchell isn't playing at an mvp level (or even close), with most of the stats on the team being won by mobley and allen. and it's way easier to not trust that darius garland is going to be great in the playoff or that mobley will not be able to make the outside shots when it really matters. and a healthy boston still has too much "role player" dominance in white/holiday/pritchard to not trust them more than cleveland's role players. if tatum shoots like last years playoffs though, maybe cleveland could beat them.

[penbeast0]

Since the Luka trade, 5 worse teams by MOV and 5 best

Code: Select all

Team                   Wins   Losses    MOV
Charlotte Hornets       3       14     -14.5
Philadelphia 76ers      3       13     - 8.6
New Orleans Pelicans    5       11     - 8.1
Dallas Mavericks        6       10     - 7.8
Utah Jazz               4       13     - 7.1


...

No Wizards on that list! We are almost at risk of screwing up the tank; fortunately we started the season like we did.