'17-'18 POY discussion

[bondom34]

Lost but props to OG for really playing well on Lebron to me.

[dhsilv2]

You can certainly separate the two

i dont see how u can say playoff adjustments are overrated when Brett has yet to adjust to Simmons being guarded by a sagged off Horford or Marcus for the whole series.

Sixers were leading by 4 with a minute left and Brads after timeout plays literally won the game in Ot. How often do u see a coach call a timeout as ardently as Brad did seeing Marcus postup about to brick a shot? Then make that play after timeout. You saying Brads schemes look alot like what he ran at Butler arent relevant specially considering Pop himself said he still watches old Butler film to steal Stevens plays. Great plays are great plays

Yeah pelifan I really can’t agree with your take here. Stevens’ playoff adjustment is literally the reason why Boston is about to easily dispatch a team that many of us though was on the way to the Finals.

If you thought the 6ers were on their way to the finals that's exactly why you should listen to me. I've been pumping the breaks on that team for a month now. Playoff adjustments have meant about zero. The Celtics have won every game including game one. A big part of the reason the Celtics are winning is the head coach disparity but that is largely due to how they've developed their teams up until this point. The 76ers players clearly lack poise. One of their turnovers today was due to Ben Simmons running into his own player. The Celtics have an offensive system that creates shots the 76ers all year have had a 3 and foul team that relies on Simmons penetration and the gravity of Embiid. They were poorly prepared for playoff basketball. The Celtics D is too good for this. The one regular season win for the Sixers took the Celtics scoring 80 points, the Celtics won the other 3. In the big run the 6ers had to end the season only 3 of the teams they played were playoff teams. The Celtics have a better team before the series started. Adjustments made for the playoffs had very little to do with this.

I agree many other coaches have out coached Pop in a playoff series, I think it happens a lot actually. But a Pop coached team has never lost to a less talented team in the playoffs so obviously playoff adjustments can't mean that much.

06 Mavs were not more talented. 11 Grizzlies weren't either (that one isn't close imo). 12 thunder I guess were though so no ready and really kinda like the 76ers. 15 clippers might have been younger, but they weren't more talented either. 16 OKC was honestly just bad on all levels imo, Pop was out coached and he absolutely has more talent.

[bondom34]

Lost but props to OG for really playing well on Lebron to me.

http://stats.nba.com/impact/advanced/#!?LineupIDs=2544&VsLineupIDs=1628384&TeamID=1610612739&VsTeamID=1610612761&SeasonType=Playoffs&Season=2017-18

Was going eye test but wow yea OG's been their only hope.

[GSP]

Lost but props to OG for really playing well on Lebron to me.

http://stats.nba.com/impact/advanced/#!?LineupIDs=2544&VsLineupIDs=1628384&TeamID=1610612739&VsTeamID=1610612761&SeasonType=Playoffs&Season=2017-18

Was going eye test but wow yea OG's been their only hope.

Agreed i posted in the Lebron thread hes played Lebron the best ive seen out of anyone except maybe Iggy

This rookie class is ABSURD

[pelifan]

Yeah pelifan I really can’t agree with your take here. Stevens’ playoff adjustment is literally the reason why Boston is about to easily dispatch a team that many of us though was on the way to the Finals.

If you thought the 6ers were on their way to the finals that's exactly why you should listen to me. I've been pumping the breaks on that team for a month now. Playoff adjustments have meant about zero. The Celtics have won every game including game one. A big part of the reason the Celtics are winning is the head coach disparity but that is largely due to how they've developed their teams up until this point. The 76ers players clearly lack poise. One of their turnovers today was due to Ben Simmons running into his own player. The Celtics have an offensive system that creates shots the 76ers all year have had a 3 and foul team that relies on Simmons penetration and the gravity of Embiid. They were poorly prepared for playoff basketball. The Celtics D is too good for this. The one regular season win for the Sixers took the Celtics scoring 80 points, the Celtics won the other 3. In the big run the 6ers had to end the season only 3 of the teams they played were playoff teams. The Celtics have a better team before the series started. Adjustments made for the playoffs had very little to do with this.

I agree many other coaches have out coached Pop in a playoff series, I think it happens a lot actually. But a Pop coached team has never lost to a less talented team in the playoffs so obviously playoff adjustments can't mean that much.

06 Mavs were not more talented. 11 Grizzlies weren't either (that one isn't close imo). 12 thunder I guess were though so no ready and really kinda like the 76ers. 15 clippers might have been younger, but they weren't more talented either. 16 OKC was honestly just bad on all levels imo, Pop was out coached and he absolutely has more talent.

2006 Mavs I'll give you. the 11 Grizzlies Ginobili was hurt and is in the weird years of Duncan ineffectiveness and I'm not sure what kind of blame Pop gets for that exactly. I disagree on 15 and 16 Clips and Thunder. Both of those teams are clearly more talented. The Spurs big 3 is on the last of their last legs by then. And the 2014 Spurs are the all time great do more with less team maybe barring a team from the late 70s. With honorable mentions to bad boy Pistons.

Bottom line is Stevens is a great coach and the best basketball mind in the game today if you consider both sides of the ball in my opinion. But there is little to suggest he's a better coach than Pop and by the time he has enough seasons under his belt his record will be blemished as well. If Rondo doesn't get hurt we might be talking about how he blew a series as a one seed right now.

[dhsilv2]

If you thought the 6ers were on their way to the finals that's exactly why you should listen to me. I've been pumping the breaks on that team for a month now. Playoff adjustments have meant about zero. The Celtics have won every game including game one. A big part of the reason the Celtics are winning is the head coach disparity but that is largely due to how they've developed their teams up until this point. The 76ers players clearly lack poise. One of their turnovers today was due to Ben Simmons running into his own player. The Celtics have an offensive system that creates shots the 76ers all year have had a 3 and foul team that relies on Simmons penetration and the gravity of Embiid. They were poorly prepared for playoff basketball. The Celtics D is too good for this. The one regular season win for the Sixers took the Celtics scoring 80 points, the Celtics won the other 3. In the big run the 6ers had to end the season only 3 of the teams they played were playoff teams. The Celtics have a better team before the series started. Adjustments made for the playoffs had very little to do with this.

I agree many other coaches have out coached Pop in a playoff series, I think it happens a lot actually. But a Pop coached team has never lost to a less talented team in the playoffs so obviously playoff adjustments can't mean that much.

06 Mavs were not more talented. 11 Grizzlies weren't either (that one isn't close imo). 12 thunder I guess were though so no ready and really kinda like the 76ers. 15 clippers might have been younger, but they weren't more talented either. 16 OKC was honestly just bad on all levels imo, Pop was out coached and he absolutely has more talent.

2006 Mavs I'll give you. the 11 Grizzlies Ginobili was hurt and is in the weird years of Duncan ineffectiveness and I'm not sure what kind of blame Pop gets for that exactly. I disagree on 15 and 16 Clips and Thunder. Both of those teams are clearly more talented. The Spurs big 3 is on the last of their last legs by then. And the 2014 Spurs are the all time great do more with less team maybe barring a team from the late 70s. With honorable mentions to bad boy Pistons.

Bottom line is Stevens is a great coach and the best basketball mind in the game today if you consider both sides of the ball in my opinion. But there is little to suggest he's a better coach than Pop and by the time he has enough seasons under his belt his record will be blemished as well. If Rondo doesn't get hurt we might be talking about how he blew a series as a one seed right now.

Manu missed game 1 in the griz series and came back and hit a game winner in game 2. There's no case the clipppers were more talented. You must only look at the top 2-3 guys to claim 15 or 16. 16 was humiliating for pop imo. There was no reason they should have ever lost that series.

[NinjaSheppard]

So does anyone still think Embiid is a better basketball player than Anthony Davis?

[HeartBreakKid]

If you thought the 6ers were on their way to the finals that's exactly why you should listen to me. I've been pumping the breaks on that team for a month now. Playoff adjustments have meant about zero. The Celtics have won every game including game one. A big part of the reason the Celtics are winning is the head coach disparity but that is largely due to how they've developed their teams up until this point. The 76ers players clearly lack poise. One of their turnovers today was due to Ben Simmons running into his own player. The Celtics have an offensive system that creates shots the 76ers all year have had a 3 and foul team that relies on Simmons penetration and the gravity of Embiid. They were poorly prepared for playoff basketball. The Celtics D is too good for this. The one regular season win for the Sixers took the Celtics scoring 80 points, the Celtics won the other 3. In the big run the 6ers had to end the season only 3 of the teams they played were playoff teams. The Celtics have a better team before the series started. Adjustments made for the playoffs had very little to do with this.

I agree many other coaches have out coached Pop in a playoff series, I think it happens a lot actually. But a Pop coached team has never lost to a less talented team in the playoffs so obviously playoff adjustments can't mean that much.

06 Mavs were not more talented. 11 Grizzlies weren't either (that one isn't close imo). 12 thunder I guess were though so no ready and really kinda like the 76ers. 15 clippers might have been younger, but they weren't more talented either. 16 OKC was honestly just bad on all levels imo, Pop was out coached and he absolutely has more talent.

2006 Mavs I'll give you. the 11 Grizzlies Ginobili was hurt and is in the weird years of Duncan ineffectiveness and I'm not sure what kind of blame Pop gets for that exactly. I disagree on 15 and 16 Clips and Thunder. Both of those teams are clearly more talented. The Spurs big 3 is on the last of their last legs by then. And the 2014 Spurs are the all time great do more with less team maybe barring a team from the late 70s. With honorable mentions to bad boy Pistons.

Bottom line is Stevens is a great coach and the best basketball mind in the game today if you consider both sides of the ball in my opinion. But there is little to suggest he's a better coach than Pop and by the time he has enough seasons under his belt his record will be blemished as well. If Rondo doesn't get hurt we might be talking about how he blew a series as a one seed right now.

He got to a final four with a mid major...twice - his resume is already HOF caliber.

Stevens and Carslile are both better coaches than Popovich.

[HeartBreakKid]

James is POY, I don't think anyone is going to pass him at this point.

I think Curry will probably make my top 5, even with games missing.

I'd say Davis, Harden and probably Durant round out my top 5.

Don't think CP3 will make it, he's playing below part this post season.

[dhsilv2]

So does anyone still think Embiid is a better basketball player than Anthony Davis?

I guess the counter question is does anyone think Embiid's guards are as good as Davis's?

[dhsilv2]

James is POY, I don't think anyone is going to pass him at this point.

I think Curry will probably make my top 5, even with games missing.

I'd say Davis, Harden and probably Durant round out my top 5.

Don't think CP3 will make it, he's playing below part this post season.

How in the heck is Lebron ahead of harden?

[GSP]

06 Mavs were not more talented. 11 Grizzlies weren't either (that one isn't close imo). 12 thunder I guess were though so no ready and really kinda like the 76ers. 15 clippers might have been younger, but they weren't more talented either. 16 OKC was honestly just bad on all levels imo, Pop was out coached and he absolutely has more talent.

2006 Mavs I'll give you. the 11 Grizzlies Ginobili was hurt and is in the weird years of Duncan ineffectiveness and I'm not sure what kind of blame Pop gets for that exactly. I disagree on 15 and 16 Clips and Thunder. Both of those teams are clearly more talented. The Spurs big 3 is on the last of their last legs by then. And the 2014 Spurs are the all time great do more with less team maybe barring a team from the late 70s. With honorable mentions to bad boy Pistons.

Bottom line is Stevens is a great coach and the best basketball mind in the game today if you consider both sides of the ball in my opinion. But there is little to suggest he's a better coach than Pop and by the time he has enough seasons under his belt his record will be blemished as well. If Rondo doesn't get hurt we might be talking about how he blew a series as a one seed right now.

He got to a final four with a mid major...twice - his resume is already HOF caliber.

Stevens and Carslile are both better coaches than Popovich.

Rick isnt a better coach than Pop

[HeartBreakKid]

James is POY, I don't think anyone is going to pass him at this point.

I think Curry will probably make my top 5, even with games missing.

I'd say Davis, Harden and probably Durant round out my top 5.

Don't think CP3 will make it, he's playing below part this post season.

How in the heck is Lebron ahead of harden?

He's averaging more points, rebounds and assist on better efficiency. How the heck is saying James > Harden worthy of a "how the heck"?

[dhsilv2]

2006 Mavs I'll give you. the 11 Grizzlies Ginobili was hurt and is in the weird years of Duncan ineffectiveness and I'm not sure what kind of blame Pop gets for that exactly. I disagree on 15 and 16 Clips and Thunder. Both of those teams are clearly more talented. The Spurs big 3 is on the last of their last legs by then. And the 2014 Spurs are the all time great do more with less team maybe barring a team from the late 70s. With honorable mentions to bad boy Pistons.

Bottom line is Stevens is a great coach and the best basketball mind in the game today if you consider both sides of the ball in my opinion. But there is little to suggest he's a better coach than Pop and by the time he has enough seasons under his belt his record will be blemished as well. If Rondo doesn't get hurt we might be talking about how he blew a series as a one seed right now.

He got to a final four with a mid major...twice - his resume is already HOF caliber.

Stevens and Carslile are both better coaches than Popovich.

Rick isnt a better coach than Pop

I'll second heartbreak's nod to rick. Pop is a better president of basketball, but in terms of actual coaching I'll give it to rick.

[dhsilv2]

James is POY, I don't think anyone is going to pass him at this point.

I think Curry will probably make my top 5, even with games missing.

I'd say Davis, Harden and probably Durant round out my top 5.

Don't think CP3 will make it, he's playing below part this post season.

How in the heck is Lebron ahead of harden?

He's averaging more points, rebounds and assist on better efficiency. How the heck is saying James > Harden worthy of a "how the heck"?

Well Harden just took a team to the best record while leading the league in PER, WS/48, BPM, WS, and was second in VORP. While he missed 10 games, the lower minutes because his team blew people out is why he didn't get the VORP title. He was also 2nd in RPM while Lebron was 15th.

Harden came into the playoffs with a massive lead over Lebron who had himself a really nice season. This is a rare year where I can actually argue that Harden might have been the better defender than Lebron.

There's no real case for James passing harden in the playoffs given Harden's team is blowing teams out and in cruise control and harden is playing great. So yeah I don't see any case to move Lebron over Harden based on early round playoff series.

Now I can understand those who might think Lebron can pass harden, but there's no possible way it has already happened.

[GSP]

He got to a final four with a mid major...twice - his resume is already HOF caliber.

Stevens and Carslile are both better coaches than Popovich.

Rick isnt a better coach than Pop

I'll second heartbreak's nod to rick. Pop is a better president of basketball, but in terms of actual coaching I'll give it to rick.

Whats the reasoning behind it? I always saw Rick a step behind. I didnt think the 11 playoffs changed that with Dirk going god mode and him and the team putting up Goat clutch numbers

[dhsilv2]

Rick isnt a better coach than Pop

I'll second heartbreak's nod to rick. Pop is a better president of basketball, but in terms of actual coaching I'll give it to rick.

Whats the reasoning behind it? I always saw Rick a step behind. I didnt think the 11 playoffs changed that with Dirk going god mode and him and the team putting up Goat clutch numbers

I feel pop's been outcoached multiple times over the last 5-6 years, especially with in game changes. Rick isn't perfect but I feel he's step ahead of pop. It's hard as both are certainly top tier coaches and have different rosters, but Pop constantly puts out lineups that don't make sense. I don't see that with rick.

System's I don't see a gap here. I oddly think pop might be as good or better offensively, but rick seems like he's got a better handle on defense.

[HeartBreakKid]

Rick isnt a better coach than Pop

I'll second heartbreak's nod to rick. Pop is a better president of basketball, but in terms of actual coaching I'll give it to rick.

Whats the reasoning behind it? I always saw Rick a step behind. I didnt think the 11 playoffs changed that with Dirk going god mode and him and the team putting up Goat clutch numbers

What about the years after 2011 then? When those teams were hobbling and still overachieving by quite a bit. It's a shame Carslile is stuck with these treadmill and now lotto teams.

As for the reason, Carslile doesn't get sentimental like Popovich does. He is more objective and calculating - if he thinks a player sucks then that player won't play; not a discipline tactic like Popovich it's just that Carslile is way more cut throat.

I find Popovich makes relatively more questionable in game decisions - Carslile doesn't get too cute. If Rick gets a better roster for the next decade, I bet he'll start to get a GOAT narrative.

[ardee]

I could see LeBron at 1 now.

[INKtastic]

James is POY, I don't think anyone is going to pass him at this point.

I think Curry will probably make my top 5, even with games missing.

I'd say Davis, Harden and probably Durant round out my top 5.

Don't think CP3 will make it, he's playing below part this post season.

How in the heck is Lebron ahead of harden?

Best games of the playoffs so far - sorted by game score



http://bkref.com/tiny/o00BE

LeBron isn't just having a good playoffs, he's having a top 2 all time playoffs , second only to LeBron James in 2009

PER: 35.3 - 2nd all time to LeBron 2009 (minimum 5 games played)
BPM: 16.3 - 2nd all time to LeBron 2009
WS/48: .323 - 3rd all time (since all stats were tracked in 77-78, minimum 5 games played). 09 LeBron is 1 with .3994, 91 Jordan #2 with .332

LeBron's win share so far is 2.8, #2 in the league is 1.8