PC Board OT thread

[Doctor MJ]

And what really sucks is how many other guys it works on too. Would Lopez be signing in NY? Hibbert traded to LA? Heck Kanter may have gotten an offer from someone even.

Yup. This is why absolutely everyone - other than the agents - should be on the same page about how stuff like this needs to play out generally, and why even as I give DeAndre sympathy based on him being a boy in a man's world, if he doesn't feel bad about what's happened, I'll lose sympathy very quickly.

[E-Balla]

Even if you disliked the joke there was nothing mean spirited about it at all.

It's not so simple. Things rarely are.

For me it was actually not simply a good joke, but an excellent one. The problem is in how the joke lands on DeAndre. Granted it's just one more thing landing on DeAndre - else the joke wouldn't work - but things are going to be rough for DeAndre in ways he doesn't realize, and if Griffin put as much effort into thinking about others' emotions as he does into being funny, he'd realize this too.

I can see fans being mad about it but IMO a joke isn't good if it wouldn't piss someone off. The timing was perfect too. It's like the second he tweeted this the memes started and it was when everyone realized he was 100% a Clipper.

So Doc MJ how you feeling about DeAndre?

Funny hitting all this after the conversation happened. Clearly you can read my posts to see what I think.

Clearly also I think, it's not what people expected. So am I biased? I'll be interested to see what people say.

I'm just shocked on how little you expect from DeAndre. Now he doesn't deserve more respect at all obviously but still...

[Doctor MJ]

Now that I got that out my system I'll say Booz is 100% worse than both of them. He actually deceived them into declining his option which they were doing to help him out. Brand is also worse since he supposedly opted out to help LA get some help, personally called Baron Davis to convince him to sign in LA, and left them the second Philly got some cap space.

Still there's something to be said when he hasn't answered any of Cuban's calls and texts in days.

I forgot about Brand. That really was awful, but it was also different from Boozer.

Boozer betrayed the Cavaliers who were quite honestly doing him a solid they didn't have to do. Yeah, they arranged it in a way where they got some benefit too, but all the power was in Boozer's hands and if he didn't think it was good, he didn't have to take it.

Brand to me was more of a "battered wife" scenario. Apologies if people find that offensive. Players got desperate in trying to escape Sterling. Brand tried to leave the Clippers the previous contract and couldn't. He found a way this time, in a horror movie type of way where you give the curse to an innocent person who thought you were friends. Brand should feel bad about that for Davis, but Sterling's Clippers never had any right to complain about anything. Every day worked under that man constituted abuse not simply to the players, but to all employees.

[Doctor MJ]

Yep, I like Paulie's analogy to taking one job and backing out. I went to the trade board and missed the convo here now.

Something I'll add here is that this type of stuff is something I've thought a lot about when I've switched jobs, and that a move quite like this proved key in my dad's career - the place he went to thrive and saw him rise up quickly, the place he went back on his word on went out of business, and his thoughts about these possibilities were key to why he sacrificed his integrity for it, and why he still felt bad about it decades later even though it was the right move.

I don't feel completely right about my track record dealing with past employers, and this comes despite the fact that I agonized over decisions from multiple perspectives before I made them, and I've made it a point to tell people face to face whenever I had disappointing news. So yeah, to me, if you're 100% doing things right, it's a very high standard, and hiding behind legal rights as if legality and ethics were the same thing is something done either out of poor ethics or poor something else.

Yeah, I've never switched jobs quite like this, always was with notice, but had a situation like this happen at my current job a few months ago. A person started then 2 days in just emailed and didn't show up. Needless to say its a big black mark on your resume, where DJ isn't getting that at all.

Actually for me it's less about places I'm deciding between, and more about leaving places. It's well and good to give notice, but all that does is help the company through the sheer abruptness of the transition.

[PaulieWal]

I have kinda started to not care much for Draymond because of his incessant whining but this is gold:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/619214240482742274[/tweet]

[E-Balla]

Now that I got that out my system I'll say Booz is 100% worse than both of them. He actually deceived them into declining his option which they were doing to help him out. Brand is also worse since he supposedly opted out to help LA get some help, personally called Baron Davis to convince him to sign in LA, and left them the second Philly got some cap space.

Still there's something to be said when he hasn't answered any of Cuban's calls and texts in days.

I forgot about Brand. That really was awful, but it was also different from Boozer.

Boozer betrayed the Cavaliers who were quite honestly doing him a solid they didn't have to do. Yeah, they arranged it in a way where they got some benefit too, but all the power was in Boozer's hands and if he didn't think it was good, he didn't have to take it.

Brand to me was more of a "battered wife" scenario. Apologies if people find that offensive. Players got desperate in trying to escape Sterling. Brand tried to leave the Clippers the previous contract and couldn't. He found a way this time, in a horror movie type of way where you give the curse to an innocent person who thought you were friends. Brand should feel bad about that for Davis, but Sterling's Clippers never had any right to complain about anything. Every day worked under that man constituted abuse not simply to the players, but to all employees.

I don't disagree with this but like you said he didn't have to do Baron like that... He's a good dude and according to all reports he hated working in LA (I remember hearing about how much he hated Sterling back in 09).

[Doctor MJ]

Even if you disliked the joke there was nothing mean spirited about it at all.

It's not so simple. Things rarely are.

For me it was actually not simply a good joke, but an excellent one. The problem is in how the joke lands on DeAndre. Granted it's just one more thing landing on DeAndre - else the joke wouldn't work - but things are going to be rough for DeAndre in ways he doesn't realize, and if Griffin put as much effort into thinking about others' emotions as he does into being funny, he'd realize this too.

I can see fans being mad about it but IMO a joke isn't good if it wouldn't piss someone off. The timing was perfect too. It's like the second he tweeted this the memes started and it was when everyone realized he was 100% a Clipper.

First and foremost thing is this:

Griffin's not just another guy, he's a 600 lb gorilla in a position to lead who absolutely has the brain to be a great leader. And when you're a leader, sometimes you stop yourself from saying perfectly funny jokes because you understand that the benefit of a laugh is transient but the subtler things the joke says may not be.

So when Griffin does his impression of Rivers, oh it's funny, but to what other end are you making the joke. If Griffin did that because he thought he was sending a message and the laughter just made it easier to swallow, good, but if he just thought it was funny that's not good.

And in this case, I don't think the pissing people off part is even a thing. I'm sure it pissed off some Mavs fans, but I really don't care. The issue for me is that I think Griffin really needs to be looking out for DeAndre here.

I'm just shocked on how little you expect from DeAndre. Now he doesn't deserve more respect at all obviously but still...

Well to be fair - it's not like my opinions on DeAndre were set in stone before this. I thought he was a pretty dumb player with delusions of grandeur, and so I didn't think highly of him, but it's not like I would have called all this other stuff ahead of time. Mostly I'm just reacting to what seems to be clearly going on in his head based on how it played out. It's not the behavior of a manipulator, it's not the behavior of someone primarily vainglorious. When a player does something that makes him the laughing stock of the basketballinati, it's almost always because they just don't know what they are doing.

[Doctor MJ]

I have kinda started to not care much for Draymond because of his incessant whining but this is gold:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/619214240482742274[/tweet]

Ugh. How I hate it when people say "If X were taller...".

[E-Balla]

I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to Blake's comments. Personally I don't think he should be doing anything for DeAndre because its not like the text made him look any worse.

[PaulieWal]

I have kinda started to not care much for Draymond because of his incessant whining but this is gold:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/619214240482742274[/tweet]

Ugh. How I hate it when people say "If X were taller...".

Right, but this is just Green trolling Kyrie back based on his comments that they would have won the ring if they were healthy.

I think it's a pretty good come back all things considered lol.

[Doctor MJ]

I have kinda started to not care much for Draymond because of his incessant whining but this is gold:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SherwoodStrauss/status/619214240482742274[/tweet]

Ugh. How I hate it when people say "If X were taller...".

Right, but this is just Green trolling Kyrie back based on his comments that they would have won the ring if they were healthy.

I think it's a pretty good come back all things considered lol.

Aah. Apologies, I'm slow sometimes.

[RSCD3_]

It's not so simple. Things rarely are.

For me it was actually not simply a good joke, but an excellent one. The problem is in how the joke lands on DeAndre. Granted it's just one more thing landing on DeAndre - else the joke wouldn't work - but things are going to be rough for DeAndre in ways he doesn't realize, and if Griffin put as much effort into thinking about others' emotions as he does into being funny, he'd realize this too.

I can see fans being mad about it but IMO a joke isn't good if it wouldn't piss someone off. The timing was perfect too. It's like the second he tweeted this the memes started and it was when everyone realized he was 100% a Clipper.

First and foremost thing is this:

Griffin's not just another guy, he's a 600 lb gorilla in a position to lead who absolutely has the brain to be a great leader. And when you're a leader, sometimes you stop yourself from saying perfectly funny jokes because you understand that the benefit of a laugh is transient but the subtler things the joke says may not be.

So when Griffin does his impression of Rivers, oh it's funny, but to what other end are you making the joke. If Griffin did that because he thought he was sending a message and the laughter just made it easier to swallow, good, but if he just thought it was funny that's not good.

And in this case, I don't think the pissing people off part is even a thing. I'm sure it pissed off some Mavs fans, but I really don't care. The issue for me is that I think Griffin really needs to be looking out for DeAndre here.

I'm just shocked on how little you expect from DeAndre. Now he doesn't deserve more respect at all obviously but still...

Well to be fair - it's not like my opinions on DeAndre were set in stone before this. I thought he was a pretty dumb player with delusions of grandeur, and so I didn't think highly of him, but it's not like I would have called all this other stuff ahead of time. Mostly I'm just reacting to what seems to be clearly going on in his head based on how it played out. It's not the behavior of a manipulator, it's not the behavior of someone primarily vainglorious. When a player does something that makes him the laughing stock of the basketballinati, it's almost always because they just don't know what they are doing.

I also think it's important to know that BBALL intelligence and real life smarts don't always correlate.

Brandon knight maintained a 4.0 through college but watching him without any knowledge of that you'd think he never used his brain in the first place and relied completely on athleticism when the reality is he would have been well set to succeed if he ruptured both Achilles.

[Doctor MJ]

I also think it's important to know that BBALL intelligence and real life smarts don't always correlate.

Brandon knight maintained a 4.0 through college but watching him without any knowledge of that you'd think he never used his brain in the first place and relied completely on athleticism when the reality is he would have been well set to succeed if he ruptured both Achilles.

You're absolutely right of course.

[GSP]

Its very interesting that supposedly Deandres agent wasnt allowed in his house during the whole signing at midnight thing. His agent tried to get Dwight to the Mavs and it seems like Deandre was a makeup for it. I think he mightve planted the Cp3 bad talk in his mind to strain their relationship and i think Cuban is obviously involved. Its in his personality to do something like that and lets not forget he was one of the biggest proponents of the Cp3/Hornets fiasco. Him and Parsons saying all those things about Deandre being the best big, 20/20 potential and all that was just so over the top.

[RSCD3_]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1398773&start=1

Doc is being deliberately obtuse...

[sp6r=underrated]

my guess is the 2nd meeting with the Lakers was probably a favor to his agent--especially in light of the reports that got out about LMA hating the Lakers' presentation. His agent is going to have to work with the Lakers in the future and probably wanted to keep that relationship in a good place.

I think people really underestimate just how much influence these agents have. I mean we might as well call Dallas the Fegans instead of the Mavericks for instance. I could easily see LMA giving the Lakers a 2nd meeting as a favor to his agent. I mean he met with several teams I don't think he was ever seriously considering--again including my Mavs. I don't think poorly of him for it. Just like I didn't with Dwight or Melo or Deron or any of the big-time FA's we struck out on.

Regardless of whether Jordan signs with Dallas or re-signs with Los Angeles the actions of the last few hours have proven you correct that Jordan’s agent was pushing him hard to sign with Dallas.

Agents perform a vital service as most athletes are similar to most people in being god awful negotiators. Agents still should act on their client’s desires if it disagrees with what the agent perceives to be in their best interest. They should urge them to reconsider if their goal is illogical but it is the player’s decision in the end.

In this case it appears Fagan was determined to get Jordan in Dallas regardless of whether Deandre wanted to go there in the first place.

Los Angeles remains a legitimate contender if they can get him to return. Los Angeles not making the CF the last few years is mainly a product of them getting brutally unlucky in their post-season draw. I ran the number on this a while ago and no team in NBA history has been more unlucky with regards to caliber of teams they face in the first few rounds after taking into account regular season performance. Despite this they have not been decisively outplayed in any series over the last two years and knocked out the team that won the title the year before and the title the year after.

This club could win a title with Deandre. It is a shame they get labeled pretenders due to the lopsided conferences. It reminds of when people would sleep on Dallas for most of the last decade.

I find this very interesting and perhaps quite insightful. What you say makes sense, but I don't feel confident enough to say it myself at this point, so if you could elaborate I'd appreciate that.

Before the recession hit, I was working as a Public Defender in a large metropolitan area. Public Defender Offices are maligned in the media as having incompetent or disinterested attorneys. That is true in many parts of the country but many other offices are staffed with high quality but admittedly overworked attorneys.

One of the important things I took away from that job is a greater appreciation for the importance of intelligence and the difficulties that can be caused by large intellectual differences. I feel comfortable in stating that the typical Public Defender is significantly more intelligent than their average client.

As a general rule clients set the destination and attorneys determine the legal route to accomplishing that goal. As a PD you were often working with clients who had a combination of weak intellectual abilities and under education. This can and does cause significant problems. Many clients cannot articulate in clear language what they want to accomplish. The senior attorneys in this office advised me that my duty was to best accomplish the client’s goal if it is clearly articulated. If it is not, you should attempt to determine to the best of your ability what the client wishes to accomplish and what is in his best interest. This does not always align. As a result you can engage in tiring and constant conversation with clients over matters to the attorney that seem obvious.

The same intellectual differences frequently occur in the relationship between players and agents. Jordan’s agent is a graduate of Yale Law School. Based on LSAT scores I feel comfortable in assuming that he is in the 99th percentile for raw intellectual abilities. Jordan is not. Fegan had a duty to attempt to determine what Jordan wanted to accomplish. I don’t think he engaged in that analysis. It looks pretty plain to me that he wanted to go to LA but that Fegan wanted him to go to Dallas. Even if Jordan could not articulate what he wanted he still should have reached the conclusion that Jordan should go to LA based on the contractual terms and basketball team. Fegan’s advice to go to Dallas was not in Jordan’s interest and the PR disaster that followed is mainly his fault.

[Moonbeam]

And what really sucks is how many other guys it works on too. Would Lopez be signing in NY? Hibbert traded to LA? Heck Kanter may have gotten an offer from someone even.

Don't worry, Portland has Kanter's back.

[bondom34]

And what really sucks is how many other guys it works on too. Would Lopez be signing in NY? Hibbert traded to LA? Heck Kanter may have gotten an offer from someone even.

Don't worry, Portland has Kanter's back.

At that price, take him please .

[Texas Chuck]

Doc is a joke:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/619236474626670592[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/619238017249579009[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/619239524531466240[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/619241005464682500[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/619240637477486592[/tweet]

Is there any way the Clippers could handle this any worse? Blake's jokes, CP3 instagram-post & now these comments from the HC/GM?

Yeah his agent that we are keeping Jordan from talking to should call the Mavs. I was just about to a point where very little of my vitriol was towards the Clippers. Not anymore. What a clown.

[Moonbeam]

And what really sucks is how many other guys it works on too. Would Lopez be signing in NY? Hibbert traded to LA? Heck Kanter may have gotten an offer from someone even.

Don't worry, Portland has Kanter's back.

At that price, take him please .

Please keep him. Please? With sugar on top?!