2021-22 NBA Season Discussion

[MartinToVaught]

Nobody thinks owners are underdogs. Most people can correctly recognize that too much "player empowerment" is bad for competition and the overall product and still not view owners as sympathetic figures.

[Colbinii]

Nobody thinks owners are underdogs. Most people can correctly recognize that too much "player empowerment" is bad for competition and the overall product and still not view owners as sympathetic figures.

There is more competition now than there was in the 1980s and 1990s.

[falcolombardi]

thinking about all nba teams

imo the best 3 guys in the nba right now are embiid, giannis and jokic so that should be the front court of the all nba first team, positions be damned, curry is probably fourth with an argument for first before his slump

curry and someone between morant/luka/booker/cp3 should be the guards

1st team: embiid/jokic/giannis/curry/booker? (thinking suns record will be rewarded)

2nd team: draymond/lebron/durant/luka/morant

3rd team: gobert/derozan/ butler/cp3/mitchell

somethingh like that imo is what is gonna happen although i dont remember if the rules allow it positions wise

[Fadeaway_J]

Ja absolutely has to be there over Booker. I'm not even 100% sure Booker would make any of the teams.

Steph
Ja
CP3
Luka
Trae
Mitchell

I could see him in over Mitchell maybe?

[Colbinii]

My current teams

Jokic/Giannis/James/CP3/Curry
Embiid/Durant/Tatum/Luka/Morant
Gobert/Draymond/Butler/Trae/VanVleet

[RCM88x]

As a Cavs fan I really hope that Garland doesn't sneak onto the 3rd team somehow due to some nonsense that might happen down the stretch.

Would rather him really earn it next year (or get snubbed).

CP3, Curry
Luka, Ja
Trae, Mitchell

Booker and FVV first two out

[CKRT]

The time to trade Simmons was before last year's playoff trauma. Simple as that. His stock has fallen drastically, as has other franchise's perception of the 76ers' leverage. This may seem like a "Well sure, given everything we know now.", but many of us said that one of the two stars needed to be traded after the 2020 playoffs, and speaking for myself, I had assumed that they brought Morey in to make the hard decision that no one earlier had had the balls to make.

So to me, by far the biggest decision Morey made was not taking seriously the idea that he was sitting on something of a ticking timebomb.

The fact that after the timebomb went off Morey's continued to drag his heels in the name of not trading Simmons until someone else gets desperate enough to offer something fitting for Simmons' prior trade value is the more fascinating spectacle, but it's largely just a gamble being made because Philly doesn't like any of the options realistically available to them at this point. Well and good to try this for a while, but the longer you try it, the more the reality of the consequences will sink in.

Your franchise player is the most injury-prone franchise player since Bill Walton, and if you don't trade Simmons until the off-season, then you've literally wasted what could easily become the healthiest year of his career (if Embiid actually managed to avoid another injury until next season) under the premise that Ben Simmons is so highly valued by other NBA teams that the 76ers will successfully him for assets that you see as more valuable than Simmons.

Maybe it pays off, but if it doesn't, Morey's going to look like a fool.

Re: if trading for McCollum closes the 76ers championship window, why do it? I'd suggest that to the degree McCollum not being good enough could be said to close an open championship window, we should also acknowledge that said championship window has already closed, and what Morey is praying is that the right trade will come along for Simmons that will pry it back open

That prayer can in theory last forever, but let it suffice to say that while Morey claims he can wait Simmons out for 4 years, he cannot. He'll get fired before then, and look like an idiot who strung along the 76ers franchise for years because he really had no plan for how to get the team where he was hired to get them.

Not a fool after all.

lol. Yup, this has the potential now to be Morey's finest moment in retrospect.

To reiterate: I do think Morey got lucky here, in the sense that he couldn't know that this would work out. People are going to feel like, in retrospect, "If it wasn't Harden, it would have been someone else", but I don't think it was any kind of given that this was inevitable.

The case of Harden is very specific in the sense that we're not talking about about Philly having a problem with Simmons as the same time as Harden becomes available and making the deal. No, Harden became available last year, and the expectation afterward was that Harden would be off the table for the foreseeable future. The fact that Harden wouldn't even complete one full season on his new team before pulling the same s**t again is frankly disturbing to me.

But now it's happened, and now the question will become how well Harden fits next to Embiid. Harden better be on his absolute best behavior going forward because the last thing Embiid will need is a toxic, fat, mid-30s Harden on a brand new mega-max deal.

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie. I don’t know how you are looking at the Nets situation with Irving and KD and thinking blame lies with Harden somehow.

Also Embiid and Harden on the same team are going to turn a playoff game thread into an absolute salt mine when they combine for like 40 FTA lol

[falcolombardi]

suns are insane, what a statement game tonight!

[Doctor MJ]

Not a fool after all.

lol. Yup, this has the potential now to be Morey's finest moment in retrospect.

To reiterate: I do think Morey got lucky here, in the sense that he couldn't know that this would work out. People are going to feel like, in retrospect, "If it wasn't Harden, it would have been someone else", but I don't think it was any kind of given that this was inevitable.

The case of Harden is very specific in the sense that we're not talking about about Philly having a problem with Simmons as the same time as Harden becomes available and making the deal. No, Harden became available last year, and the expectation afterward was that Harden would be off the table for the foreseeable future. The fact that Harden wouldn't even complete one full season on his new team before pulling the same s**t again is frankly disturbing to me.

But now it's happened, and now the question will become how well Harden fits next to Embiid. Harden better be on his absolute best behavior going forward because the last thing Embiid will need is a toxic, fat, mid-30s Harden on a brand new mega-max deal.

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie. I don’t know how you are looking at the Nets situation with Irving and KD and thinking blame lies with Harden somehow.

Also Embiid and Harden on the same team are going to turn a playoff game thread into an absolute salt mine when they combine for like 40 FTA lol

I never said Kyrie & KD don't deserve blame. There should be no thought that someone noticing when Harden quits on his team means they can't notice ridiculousness from others.

[CKRT]

lol. Yup, this has the potential now to be Morey's finest moment in retrospect.

To reiterate: I do think Morey got lucky here, in the sense that he couldn't know that this would work out. People are going to feel like, in retrospect, "If it wasn't Harden, it would have been someone else", but I don't think it was any kind of given that this was inevitable.

The case of Harden is very specific in the sense that we're not talking about about Philly having a problem with Simmons as the same time as Harden becomes available and making the deal. No, Harden became available last year, and the expectation afterward was that Harden would be off the table for the foreseeable future. The fact that Harden wouldn't even complete one full season on his new team before pulling the same s**t again is frankly disturbing to me.

But now it's happened, and now the question will become how well Harden fits next to Embiid. Harden better be on his absolute best behavior going forward because the last thing Embiid will need is a toxic, fat, mid-30s Harden on a brand new mega-max deal.

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie. I don’t know how you are looking at the Nets situation with Irving and KD and thinking blame lies with Harden somehow.

Also Embiid and Harden on the same team are going to turn a playoff game thread into an absolute salt mine when they combine for like 40 FTA lol

I never said Kyrie & KD don't deserve blame. There should be no thought that someone noticing when Harden quits on his team means they can't notice ridiculousness from others.

I guess I am just confused on how exactly he quit on the Nets beyond not wanting to put up with Kyrie’s nonsense.

[Colbinii]

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie. I don’t know how you are looking at the Nets situation with Irving and KD and thinking blame lies with Harden somehow.

Also Embiid and Harden on the same team are going to turn a playoff game thread into an absolute salt mine when they combine for like 40 FTA lol

I never said Kyrie & KD don't deserve blame. There should be no thought that someone noticing when Harden quits on his team means they can't notice ridiculousness from others.

I guess I am just confused on how exactly he quit on the Nets beyond not wanting to put up with Kyrie’s nonsense.

That's quiting.

If my coworkers are lazy, skipping work and doing no work and I walk out of my job frustrated by them, I am still the person quitting.

As you said, however, providing context to the situation is important and understanding why someone quit is important.

[Doctor MJ]

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie. I don’t know how you are looking at the Nets situation with Irving and KD and thinking blame lies with Harden somehow.

Also Embiid and Harden on the same team are going to turn a playoff game thread into an absolute salt mine when they combine for like 40 FTA lol

I never said Kyrie & KD don't deserve blame. There should be no thought that someone noticing when Harden quits on his team means they can't notice ridiculousness from others.

I guess I am just confused on how exactly he quit on the Nets beyond not wanting to put up with Kyrie’s nonsense.

I’m talking about how Harden looked out there toward the end. It was Houston all over again.


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[MartinToVaught]

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie.

Harden has complained about practically every teammate he's ever played with. It turns out he couldn't get along with KD either. As crazy as Kyrie is, it's a two-way street.

[Colbinii]

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie.

Harden has complained about practically every teammate he's ever played with. It turns out he couldn't get along with KD either. As crazy as Kyrie is, it's a two-way street.

Complaining about Kyrie is a legitimate claim though and should not be grouped with other criticisms or complaints Harden has had for past teammates.

[MartinToVaught]

This is interesting because Harden was supposedly the only one vocal enough on the Nets to complain about Kyrie.

Harden has complained about practically every teammate he's ever played with. It turns out he couldn't get along with KD either. As crazy as Kyrie is, it's a two-way street.

Complaining about Kyrie is a legitimate claim though and should not be grouped with other criticisms or complaints Harden has had for past teammates.

Harden quit on the Rockets and forced his way to Brooklyn to play with Kyrie already knowing full well that he was a lunatic. In fact, if I recall correctly, Kyrie was still on his mid-season "sabbatical" when that trade went down. That erodes a lot of the legitimacy of Harden's complaints. He chose to team up with a crazy person and then is shocked that they're still crazy? Come on.

Occam's Razor: Harden (like Durant before him) just wants the easiest possible rings with no effort on his part, and the Nets didn't turn out to be the easy ring factory he expected them to be, so he quit.

[Peregrine01]

I think most on this board were questioning how Harden's style would mesh on a team with two other on-ball superstars. So now it's coming out that Harden bristled at the Nets imploring him to play with more ball and man movement. Can't say I'm surprised at all - it was the same issues he had with CP3. Harden publicly says that all he wants is to win a championship but truthfully never wants to make sacrifices to his own style of play to do so.

[falcolombardi]

I think most on this board were questioning how Harden's style would mesh on a team with two other on-ball superstars. So now it's coming out that Harden bristled at the Nets imploring him to play with more ball and man movement. Can't say I'm surprised at all - it was the same issues he had with CP3. Harden publicly says that all he wants is to win a championship but truthfully never wants to make sacrifices to his own style of play to do so.

in fairness they were really damn good in the court together in the small sample we have with some histórical offense (both in absolute and relative terms)

it was their personalities that ruined the whole thingh, mostly kyrie, then harden and even dursnt to a degree for seemingly enabling kyrie

[Peregrine01]

I think most on this board were questioning how Harden's style would mesh on a team with two other on-ball superstars. So now it's coming out that Harden bristled at the Nets imploring him to play with more ball and man movement. Can't say I'm surprised at all - it was the same issues he had with CP3. Harden publicly says that all he wants is to win a championship but truthfully never wants to make sacrifices to his own style of play to do so.

in fairness they were really damn good in the court together in the small sample we have with some histórical offense (both in absolute and relative terms)

it was their personalities that ruined the whole thingh, mostly kyrie, then harden and even dursnt to a degree for seemingly enabling kyrie

I don't think 16 games is a meaningful sample size when trying to judge a team's place in history.

There's only one ball to go around. And you have probably the all-time greatest ball-pounder who played on a team that enabled him at every turn to put up monster stats that had many wondering if he was the best offensive player ever. That kinda stuff will get to anyone's head and now to be asked to give that away?

[Krodis]

I never said Kyrie & KD don't deserve blame. There should be no thought that someone noticing when Harden quits on his team means they can't notice ridiculousness from others.

I guess I am just confused on how exactly he quit on the Nets beyond not wanting to put up with Kyrie’s nonsense.

I’m talking about how Harden looked out there toward the end. It was Houston all over again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He was playing through hand and hamstring issues and had a stinker on the second half of a back to back.

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[falcolombardi]

I think most on this board were questioning how Harden's style would mesh on a team with two other on-ball superstars. So now it's coming out that Harden bristled at the Nets imploring him to play with more ball and man movement. Can't say I'm surprised at all - it was the same issues he had with CP3. Harden publicly says that all he wants is to win a championship but truthfully never wants to make sacrifices to his own style of play to do so.

in fairness they were really damn good in the court together in the small sample we have with some histórical offense (both in absolute and relative terms)

it was their personalities that ruined the whole thingh, mostly kyrie, then harden and even dursnt to a degree for seemingly enabling kyrie

I don't think 16 games is a meaningful sample size when trying to judge a team's place in history.

There's only one ball to go around. And you have probably the all-time greatest ball-pounder who played on a team that enabled him at every turn to put up monster stats that had many wondering if he was the best offensive player ever. That kinda stuff will get to anyone's head and now to be asked to give that away?

that is still a off court/personality issue, the fit on court was working surprisingly well in practice despite the theorical issues when they actually played

is too small of a sample size but that is related back to the personality issues (kyrie missing so many games unnecessarily, harden asking out)