James Harden is a superstar

E-Balla · Post #1381 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:28 pm

How much of the credit for the offense could be given to the SSOL on steroids style they're running. The team gets around 19 points a night on fastbreaks and Harden has a lot of those. Those are easily replacable baskets without him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's completely possible the fast offense only style they are running is capable of being run by Jeremy Lin and Toney (both of them came into the league running this). Maybe not 4th offense in the league good but still easily in the top 10.

Post #1382 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:30 pm

Jeremy Lin is not a consistently good offensive player; it bothers me that people still have not realized this by now...

E-Balla · Post #1383 » by **E-Balla** » Mon Mar 4, 2013 4:42 pm

tsherkin wrote:Jeremy Lin is not a consistently good offensive player; it bothers me that people still have not realized this by now...

He doesn't have to be consistent. As long as he, Toney, or Parsons can run the PNR they'll be fine. At least still good enough to rank top 10 offensively.

This system highlights Harden's strengths but some others on the team can run the same plays well enough themselves. I'm not saying they'll be better, I'm just saying chances are high that they won't fall off the map.

JordansBulls · Post #1384 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Mar 5, 2013 1:46 pm

tsherkin wrote:Jeremy Lin is not a consistently good offensive player; it bothers me that people still have not realized this by now...

Pretty much. It all depends if teams allow him to go to his right or not.

RebelWithACause · Post #1385 » by **RebelWithACause** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:14 am

Quick question:

Harden just went for 28 points with a TS of 58 %!
But he shot 28 % from the field and 29 % from 3!
5/17, 2/7, 16/16

Curious if it is :
-a very good scoring game
-a good one
-an average one
- or a bad scoring game

in your opinion?

TheChosen618 · Post #1386 » by **TheChosen618** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:24 am

GC Pantalones wrote:How much of the credit for the offense could be given to the SSOL on steroids style they're running. The team gets around 19 points a night on fastbreaks and Harden has a lot of those. Those are easily replacable baskets without him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's completely possible the fast offense only style they are running is capable of being run by Jeremy Lin and Toney (both of them came into the league running this). Maybe not 4th offense in the league good but still easily in the top 10.

You do realize Toney Douglas is not on the team anymore right? He was apart of the Thomas Robinson deal.

The Rockets offense is great because of how fast they play. If the game slows down and it comes to execution, the Rockets tend to struggle. It is why the Rockets always struggle in close game situations and it is also why the Rockets struggled in the beginning of the season was Mchale wasn't coaching,

ElMaestro90 wrote:Quick question:

Harden just went for 28 points with a TS of 58 %!
But he shot 28 % from the field and 29 % from 3!
5/17, 2/7, 16/16

Curious if it is :
-a very good scoring game
-a good one
-an average one
- or a bad scoring game

in your opinion?

It's a good one, but it's not a reliable one and that is why the Rockets lost tonight. FTs are worth points too, but you don't want to constantly depend on getting to the line especially in late game situations.

G35 · Post #1387 » by **G35** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:26 am

ElMaestro90 wrote:Quick question:

Harden just went for 28 points with a TS of 58 %!
But he shot 28 % from the field and 29 % from 3!
5/17, 2/7, 16/16

Curious if it is :
-a very good scoring game
-a good one
-an average one
- or a bad scoring game

in your opinion?

Efficient game. TS was 58%, 17 shots 28 points.

I'm sure context will be applied by those who really understand what those numbers mean.....

RebelWithACause · Post #1388 » by **RebelWithACause** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:38 am

G35 wrote:
ElMaestro90 wrote:Quick question:

Harden just went for 28 points with a TS of 58 %!
But he shot 28 % from the field and 29 % from 3!
5/17, 2/7, 16/16

Curious if it is :
-a very good scoring game
-a good one
-an average one
- or a bad scoring game

in your opinion?

Efficient game. TS was 58%, 17 shots 28 points.

I'm sure context will be applied by those who really understand what those numbers mean.....

I was not asking if the game was efficient G35, that is out of question!

G35 · Post #1389 » by **G35** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 6:27 am

ElMaestro90 wrote:
G35 wrote:
ElMaestro90 wrote:Quick question:

Harden just went for 28 points with a TS of 58 %!
But he shot 28 % from the field and 29 % from 3!
5/17, 2/7, 16/16

Curious if it is :
-a very good scoring game
-a good one
-an average one
- or a bad scoring game

in your opinion?

Efficient game. TS was 58%, 17 shots 28 points.

I'm sure context will be applied by those who really understand what those numbers mean.....

I was not asking if the game was efficient G35, that is out of question!

How do you separate scoring from efficiency? IF it's just about scoring then how he shot doesn't matter and all you need to post is his point total which was 28 points which is a very good scoring game.....

PowerBull · Post #1390 » by **PowerBull** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 1:03 pm

I really hate this XX points on XX shots thing.

So did he not go to the line 16 times? Lets say he had 2 and1's, thats still 7 field goal attempts or 7 shots less for his team.

Don't get me wrong - I am a big Hardan fan and a fan of players who can go to the line but this should be factored in.

Krodis · Post #1391 » by **Krodis** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:32 pm

Well that's what TS% is for. His TS% was 58, which is good. He shot poorly from the field, but he got to the line 16 times and made them all.

He had 28 points on ~23 true shot attempts, which is good. It is true that saying he had 28 points on 17 shots is misleading because he got to the line so much. But because he made all his free throws, the result is still pretty efficient.

rockmanslim · Post #1392 » by **rockmanslim** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 4:49 pm

LOL @ Shawn Marion.

In his postgame interview he alludes to what some in here have mentioned, Harden being too dependent on free throws, but then he catches himself and abruptly ends his sentence lol. imo he didn't want to sound like he was dissing Harden, but he let it slip out before he caught himself.

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/video/2013 ... p4-2406224

Reporter: "Your defense late on James Harden, especially those last couple of possessions, just talk about what you tried to take away from him."

Marion: "Just tried to make it hard for him. I think just crowd him, and don't let him get comfortable. He's a very aggressive player, but at the same time, you take a lot of the free throws out of the game, he had a rough night tonight. But he's able to get to the line, that's when he does well. He IS leading the league in free throw attempts. Heh. (pause...licks his lips LOL)"

fallacy · Post #1393 » by **fallacy** » Thu Mar 7, 2013 7:33 pm

Being dependent on free throws isn't necessarily a bad thing when you get to the line more than anyone in the NBA

Krodis · Post #1394 » by **Krodis** » Sat Mar 9, 2013 6:00 am

Interesting stat: of Harden's 5.8 assists/game, 5 of them are either at the rim or for three. He only averages .8 assists a game on mid-range shots. He doesn't really get cheap assists.

orangeparka · Post #1395 » by **orangeparka** » Sat Mar 9, 2013 7:47 am

Most are transition assists I guess?

Krodis · Post #1396 » by **Krodis** » Sat Mar 9, 2013 4:10 pm

I don't have the stats, but I can tell you from watching the games that in transition he mostly just prefers to finish the play himself. Most of his assists are in the half-court.

His assists in general are gradually ticking upward:

November: 4.8
December: 5.2
January: 5.8
February: 6.8
March (so far, small sample size): 8.8

Post #1397 » by **Doctor MJ** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:18 am

GC Pantalones wrote:How much of the credit for the offense could be given to the SSOL on steroids style they're running. The team gets around 19 points a night on fastbreaks and Harden has a lot of those. Those are easily replacable baskets without him.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's completely possible the fast offense only style they are running is capable of being run by Jeremy Lin and Toney (both of them came into the league running this). Maybe not 4th offense in the league good but still easily in the top 10.

So, responding to this a bit later:

Houston now has the #3 offense in the league.
Their SRS is better than all but 2 teams in the East, and it's basically the same as the #2 team.

I note that I've been on the pro-Harden bandwagon from the beginning so I can't claim total objectivity, but it's hard for me to look at all this with skepticism. It's a good team. The only teams with clear alphas that are better than Houston by SRS are the Heat, the Thunder, and the Clippers. Putting their stars aside, I can't really side with another stars that's been more significantly impressive than Harden.

I do understand one thing though:

The team's record is worse than their SRS.
People believe Harden's offense is stoppable in the clutch.

The latter could cause the former.

The thing is for me is that I just the techniques he's using being used successfully by other stars when they really need a bucket. You drive and dare.

Looking at the clutch data according to 82games, I don't see anything crazy bad.

Houston's outscores opponents when he's on the floor in the clutch, and their efficiency is fine. And Harden's scoring stats look fine if you don't ignore the free throws that he continues to get in the clutch: 45 points on 59.7% TS.

NYKMELO7 · Post #1398 » by **NYKMELO7** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:40 am

james harden is a top five player in the nba in my opinion. call me crazy but he might be the best in creating contact and getting to the ine. another beast game tonight. 38-5-8

james harden would be the guy i want to build my team around. id rather have him for the next ten years over anyone in the league (except for durant)

Rasho_libre · Post #1399 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:34 am

NYKMELO7 wrote:james harden is a top five player in the nba in my opinion. call me crazy but he might be the best in creating contact and getting to the ine. another beast game tonight. 38-5-8

james harden would be the guy i want to build my team around. id rather have him for the next ten years over anyone in the league (except for durant)

Lebron? Oh ten years. Raps in 4

DreDay · Post #1400 » by **DreDay** » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:59 am

Hopefully they review all his rubbish contact moves and either make it a no call or an offensive foul. Kevin Martin (another top Houston scorer) relied on his rubbish no skill rip move and thankfully it got taken away. Let's see Harden without him flailing for contact every freaking trip he drives. He doesn't play basketball, he plays for the refs approval and it's sickening.