RealGM Top 100 List #20

[penbeast0]

I question Walt's impact. Isiah was the true leader and best player in those Piston teams. Walt wasn't.

I think Isiah's impact is more questionable than Walt's. It's not clear Isiah was even the best guard on those teams, 1st Finals MVP Dumars was more efficient and much more valuable defensively which is how those teams won championships. Isiah was the ball dominator compared to Dumars (or even Frazier), but that's not always a good thing. I do think Isiah was the main man on those teams but just pointing out that it's not a sure thing.

Walt was the true leader and best player on those Knicks teams -- Reed was 1A/1B on the first championship but by the second one, he was only a part time player and Frazier was carrying that team, particularly in the finals. Offensively it's easy to see how Frazier was the dominant player especially on the second team, it's really obvious. Defensively he shut down Jerry West pretty badly which (together with Wilt's perpetual playoff slippage) was the key.

Remember what Willis Reed said, "It's Clyde's ball, he just let's us play with it."

[penbeast0]

Does someone have a vote count?

Thanks

UPDATED VOTE:

Charles Barkley – FJS, therealbig3, ElGee, Dr Mufasa, JordansBulls, fatal9, Sedale Threatt, ronnymac2, shawngoat23, ThaRegul8r, JerkyWay

David Robinson – penbeast0, TMACFORMVP, Snakebites, Gongxi, David Stern, Fencer Reregistered, colts18, mysticbb, An Unbiased Fan, drza

Dwyane Wade – Baller24



NOMINATE:

Scottie Pippen – Snakebites, therealbig3, David Stern, ElGee, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, fatal9, mysticbb, Baller24, Sedale Threatt

Artis Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi, Doctor MJ

Clyde Drexler – JordansBulls, colts18, ronnymac2

John Stockton – FJS, An Unbiased Fan

[ThaRegul8r]

For some reason, my vote was overlooked.

[therealbig3]

Does someone have a vote count?

If someone has 11-10, can you tell me the votes I am missing?


VOTE:

David Robinson – penbeast0, TMACFORMVP, Snakebites, Gongxi, David Stern, Fencer Reregistered, colts18, mysticbb, An Unbiased Fan

Charles Barkley – FJS, therealbig3, ElGee, Dr Mufasa, JordansBulls, fatal9, Sedale Threatt, ronnymac2

Dwyane Wade – Baller24



NOMINATE:

Scottie Pippen – Snakebites, therealbig3, David Stern, ElGee, Dr Mufasa, Fencer reregistered, fatal9, mysticbb, Baller24, Sedale Threatt

Artis Gilmore – penbeast0, Gongxi, Doctor MJ

Clyde Drexler – JordansBulls, colts18, ronnymac2

John Stockton – FJS, An Unbiased Fan

shawngoat23 on page 2 voted for Barkley.

ThaRegul8r on page 2 voted for Barkley.

JerkyWay on page 3 voted for Barkley...he gave a list since he's not going to be around, and the first name on the list is Barkley.

And I think drza pretty much voted for Robinson on page 1. He didn't give an official vote, but he says at the end that he thinks Robinson was better.

[Fencer reregistered]

My problem with Pierce is that he has an overrated clutch rep. If you look at him in the clutch, he is very disappointing.

Says the guy with the Peyton Manning user name.

But yes, you're correct. Pierce's clutch rep was much more defensible before the "Big 3" era -- although Pierce has also made a lot of good clutch passes on last-minute-of-game shots that may not be in your stats.

He also has been a shutdown defender in crunch time. Pick your elite wing (including Wizards not-that-elite Michael Jordan), and Pierce has shut him down on a last-shot kind of play.

[Doctor MJ]

Okay enough agonization, gotta pick one:

Vote - Barkley

I go back & forth between him and Robinson, but here's the thing most salient in my mind right now:

Barkley averaged 23 & 12.9 in the playoffs, Robinson 18.1 & 10.6 with Barkley being quite a bit more efficient despite the fact Barkley played more minutes in the playoffs.

What's that you say, that's because of timing, "Robinson's numbers aren't THAT bad really, just skewed by the success of the Duncan years". Well consider:

Regular season, number of 25 PPG years:

Barkley: 5
Robinson: 4

and playoffs:

Barkley: 6
Robinson: 2

Regular season, number of 13 RPG:

Barkley: 2
Robinson: 1

and playoffs:

Barkley: 7
Robinson: 3

And then remember that while Robinson had quite the rep for his team getting upset in the playoffs, Barkley's teams only got upset twice: To Jordan in '93 and Hakeem in '95. So Barkley's big playoff numbers are by no means empty.

[penbeast0]

As I said in the last thread, I am going to start closing these at 10PM with school restarting . . . so, given that Doc's vote pushes Barkley's margin to 2, it looks like Barkley rounds out the top 20 with Pippen sliding into the mix.

I will, however, still count votes up to midnight on this one if there is a sudden attack by the navy . . .

[drza]

I think I've been counted already since I had previously strongly hinted who my votes would be, but just for the record:

Vote: David Robinson
Nom: Scottie Pippen