Open Court: 50 Greatest & Next 10

[Massamba]

Why are they hating on Wade? Shaq forgot he was the man who saved them in the 2006 finals? He has 3 titles. His 2009 season is one of the best of ALL THE TIMe for a SG. He was the best player in the 2008 olympics. Last season he was a top3 SG in the league.
Who had a better resume than him? Who?
Wade is OVER Dirk! C'mon !

[RayBan-Sematra]

Why are they hating on Wade? Shaq forgot he was the man who saved them in the 2006 finals?

Wade did save them but Shaq was pretty damn good himself in 3/4 of their wins so he doesn't need to be overly thankful and he can fully embrace that ring.

[PaulieWal]

Why are they hating on Wade? Shaq forgot he was the man who saved them in the 2006 finals?

Wade did save them but Shaq was pretty damn good himself in 3/4 of their wins so he doesn't need to be overly thankful and he can fully embrace that ring.

Shaq was important, no one denies that. But it's clear that Shaq's animosity stems from the fact that Wade is given more credit in the media (and rightfully so) for that 06 title. Shaq had some great games in the ECF and the defensive attention he drew in the Finals opened up a lot of things for Wade but Shaq clearly has some sort of animosity towards Wade.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Shaq's animosity stems from the fact that Wade is given more credit in the media (and rightfully so) for that 06 title.

I am not sure about that.
I think Wade sort of siding with Riley during their beef may have been what broke up the relationship.
The two seemed to be legit friends prior to 07 and seemed to have a real relationship.

Wade has always been extremely complimentary towards Shaq even years after they had been together.
Same is true for Shaq prior to him leaving but even then I don't remember Shaq ever putting Wade down or even saying a bad word about him ever.

[PaulieWal]

Shaq's animosity stems from the fact that Wade is given more credit in the media (and rightfully so) for that 06 title.

I am not sure about that.
I think Wade sort of siding with Riley during their beef may have been what broke up the relationship.
The two seemed to be legit friends prior to 07 and seemed to have a real relationship.

Wade has always been extremely complimentary towards Shaq even years after they had been together.
Same is true for Shaq prior to him leaving but even then I don't remember Shaq ever putting Wade down or even saying a bad word about him ever.

Well Shaq did leave Miami unceremoniously. Whether it's because Wade sided with Riley (as he should have) or whether it has something to do with Wade being given more credit in the media, it's very petty on Shaq's part.

[cyclix]

The wonderboy comment is true. Shaq did call Wade wonderboy.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Wade sided with Riley (as he should have)

He probably should have. Don't wanna get on Rileys bad side when you're trying to become a Miami lifer.

On the other hand if I put myself in Shaqs shoes I'd be pissed that a friend would kinda stop chilling with me because he is afraid of angering his employer.

Regarding the Shaq & Riley fight it is best not to place blame on either guy.
No one really knows exactly what caused the fight or what was said. Depending on what version you read and how you think either guy could receive the most blame.

[PaulieWal]

Wade sided with Riley (as he should have)

He probably should have. Don't wanna get on Rileys bad side when you're trying to become a Miami lifer.

On the other hand if I put myself in Shaqs shoes I'd be pissed that a friend would kinda stop chilling with me because he is afraid of angering his employer.

Regarding the Shaq & Riley fight it is best not to place blame on either guy.
No one really knows exactly what caused the fight or what was said. Depending on what version you read and how you think either guy could receive the most blame.

I don't wanna place blame but Shaq definitely deserved some. He refused to get treatments for his injuries with the Miami medical staff and Shaq crossed all lines when he got into Riley's face and physically intimidated him poking him in the chest. Riley said he had never felt as disrespected by a player in his entire life before that.

Riley probably did push Shaq too hard but Shaq's behaviour was indefensible playing on a $100 million contract.

Either way, Shaq treating Wade like that is petty no matter how you look at it.

[RayBan-Sematra]

Either way, Shaq treating Wade like that is petty no matter how you look at it.

Shaq :

By the time I left Miami things weren't really all that good between me and DWade.
It wasn't bad, but it just wasn't good, either.
I'm sure someone got in his ear and said, "stay away from Shaq he's trouble."
People ask me if I'm disappointed DWade didn't stand up for me, but I wasn't, because you can't stand up to Pat. If you do, you're gone, and DWade wants to stay in Miami for his entire career.

He's a bona-fide star now. Very talented kid. Am I sorry we didn't stay friends? I don't know.

Shaq part 2 :

When he traded me, Pat told the media "I love Shaq when I got him and I love him today."
He didn't mean it. He hated the way I called him out. He didn't like to be challanged.
I can still hear Pat telling me, "I'm going to take down that 6th man Micheal Jordan jersey we have up in our rafters and put up your number 32 uniform in its place. You have done so much for this franchise. Your jersey will be the first one up there, the first one ever retired by the Heat.

[PaulieWal]

Either way, Shaq treating Wade like that is petty no matter how you look at it.

Shaq :

By the time I left Miami things weren't really all that good between me and DWade.
It wasn't bad, but it just wasn't good, either.
I'm sure someone got in his ear and said, "stay away from Shaq he's trouble."
People ask me if I'm disappointed DWade didn't stand up for me, but I wasn't, because you can't stand up to Pat. If you do, you're gone, and DWade wants to stay in Miami for his entire career.

He's a bona-fide star now. Very talented kid. Am I sorry we didn't stay friends? I don't know.

Shaq part 2 :

When he traded me, Pat told the media "I love Shaq when I got him and I love him today."
He didn't mean it. He hated the way I called him out. He didn't like to be challanged.
I can still hear Pat telling me, "I'm going to take down that 6th man Micheal Jordan jersey we have up in our rafters and put up your number 32 uniform in its place. You have done so much for this franchise. Your jersey will be the first one up there, the first one ever retired by the Heat.

That doesn't change the facts that I presented about Shaq getting in Riley's face and physically intimidating him and refusing treatments from the Miami medical staff while playing on a $100 million contract. Again, as an analyst several years later it seems petty on Shaq's part to argue against Wade being in the next 10. Even if Shaq was an angel (which he wasn't) and Wade and Riley deserve all the blame it seems small on Shaq's part to do this in 2014.

[RayBan-Sematra]

That doesn't change the facts that I presented about Shaq getting in Riley's face and physically intimidating him

He was definitely wrong to do that though Riley also instigated the fight before that according to him.

and refusing treatments from the Miami medical staff while playing on a $100 million contract.

In his book he says he underwent many different treatments on the orders of Riley many which included long plane rides.

He says later on that Riley accused him of not doing treatments but that is because the treatment he had him on at the time (electro shock therapy for his knees or something) wasn't working.

Oh and before any of that happened Riley told the media he thought Shaq was faking an injury.
So that is pretty bad on his part.

And yeah he shouldn't have argued him out of the Top 10.

[PaulieWal]

That doesn't change the facts that I presented about Shaq getting in Riley's face and physically intimidating him

He was definitely wrong to do that though Riley also instigated the fight before that according to him.

and refusing treatments from the Miami medical staff while playing on a $100 million contract.

In his book he says he underwent many different treatments on the orders of Riley many which included long plane rides.

He says later on that Riley accused him of not doing treatments but that is because the treatment he had him on at the time (electro shock therapy for his knees or something) wasn't working.

Oh and before any of that happened Riley told the media he thought Shaq was faking an injury.
So that is pretty bad on his part.

And yeah he shouldn't have argued him out of the Top 10.

Dude, you are making it about something else. My original point was that Shaq being upset at Wade for whatever reason and then keeping him out of the Next 10 is petty on his part. Sure both sides will present their versions and I tend to side with Riley/Miami on this one but that's irrelevant to the topic at hand. Shaq could hate Wade but that doesn't justify him arguing against Wade being included in the Next 10. That's the point.

Edit: I see your last line now. I missed that. Then we agree. How Shaq left Miami and who's to blame isn't really that important for this topic .

[Big NBA Fan]

Listen, the fact that Shaq blames everybody but himself for everything is enough proof that it WAS his fault most of the time.

Micky Arison has remained very good friends with Shaq, but even he said that Shaq didn't cooperate with the medical staff..."He was a tough patient, sometimes," were his exact words.

Micky rarely talks to the media, but he set the record straight after the Shaq vs Riley feud broke out soon after Shaq got traded.

- He confirmed the Miami Herald's very detailed report detailing how Shaq refused to listen to the medical staff

- He confirmed that the Heat were forced into trading Shaq when his agent demanded a buy-out in December...two months before he was traded.

Ira Winderman has been a Heat beat-writer for several years and he was the first one to reveal Shaq calling Wade "wonderboy" behind his back.

He also mocked Antoine Walker's weight problems by calling him "Ruben Studdard" behind his back before running him out in favor of Ricky Davis.

The Ricky Davis trade was a terrible one for the Heat, but it was done at Shaq's request.

He pushed out Stan van Gundy.

Basically, Shaq stopped caring after 2006.

But, in regards to the Nash thing, I think he was the only one who didn't like Shaq, but it's not surprising because they are completely different personalities.

A lot of Suns players have spoken highly of Shaq...their unhappiness mainly had to do with Terry Porter.