Kobe Bryant Athleticism

[Peregrine01]

Something that gets missed in all the athleticism talk is motor. Plenty of guys jump as high as Westbrook and have as much straight-line speed, but why is Westbrook thought of as a GOAT athlete? It's because of his one-of-a-kind ability to just go. Same thing with Rodman.

When considering all the holistic aspects of athleticism, I think Jordan is a tier above everyone else at the 2. And then it's Wade, and then Kobe. I put Wade over Kobe because of that motor thing...even young Kobe didn't have that everywhere-ness that makes athleticism so overwhelming.

[ShotCreator]

Useful basketball functions don’t define athleticism.


Jimmy Butler would kill you in a UFC cage far faster than Kobe. If trained at a young age, I don’t see why Jimmy couldn’t be a top LHW on the planet.

He’d be a better skill player in the NFL.

Hell he’d be a better defender in the NFL.

Kobe ain’t beating him in swimming either.

This is a guy who as a ROOKIE, could guard that absolutely massive version of Miami LeBron without help defense.

And Stephen Curry and James Harden shows the flaw in both your thinking.

Kobe was not goat level in fine motor skills. Or balance, or coordination, or change of direction.

Curry was.

Harden even tops Kobe in those categories. Athletic peak Harden is loaded with athletic advantages over Kobe. 2013 Harden has first step(easily), strength, top speed, brakes, change of direction.

Harden was right behind Miami LeBron as an open court offensive player until he got older and slower.


Kobe was lateral quickness, leaping, other things I’m not feeling generous enough to remember.

Kobe is FAR closer to Harden athletically than the top guys like Butler/Wade/Drexler.

I just don't see it for Jimmy, even though he is a great athlete. Jimmy doesn't have the first step or the leaping ability of Kobe. Kobe's posterized basically every elite center of his era. His hand was regularly toward the top of the square when he'd go up for alley oops. Kobe blew by people easily. Kobe could also burst by defenders at will and he could change directions effortlessly. Jimmy is maybe stronger, but he isn't nearly as flexible and he doesn't have quite the reflexes either. I think James Harden has raw athletic tools that are similar to Kobe's, but he definitely doesn't have the maneuverability to contort his body on the ground and in the air. Kobe is a flat-out acrobat in the air and on the ground. Kobe jumps higher than DWade too.

Laughing at his claims of Kobe having shortcoming in balance and coordination when those are some of the areas that he was CLEARLY top tier in lol.

In comparison to a peak Curry? Kobe absolutely had shortcomings.


A guy who can run full speed, stop, square up, aim and get a shot off in less than a second with accuracy while contested.

That level of balance coordination Kobe never reached. Though he was obviously very high level. He wouldn’t have been able to tough shots on volume for a decade if not.

But Harden is honest to god right there with him on tough shot creation and balance, if not better.

Where do you draw the line on balance and coordination advantages while other guys are clearly more explosive?

[DirtyDez]

Kobe, T-Mac, Grant Hill, Pippen I consider right below the God-tier athletes.

[LakerLegend]

I just don't see it for Jimmy, even though he is a great athlete. Jimmy doesn't have the first step or the leaping ability of Kobe. Kobe's posterized basically every elite center of his era. His hand was regularly toward the top of the square when he'd go up for alley oops. Kobe blew by people easily. Kobe could also burst by defenders at will and he could change directions effortlessly. Jimmy is maybe stronger, but he isn't nearly as flexible and he doesn't have quite the reflexes either. I think James Harden has raw athletic tools that are similar to Kobe's, but he definitely doesn't have the maneuverability to contort his body on the ground and in the air. Kobe is a flat-out acrobat in the air and on the ground. Kobe jumps higher than DWade too.

Laughing at his claims of Kobe having shortcoming in balance and coordination when those are some of the areas that he was CLEARLY top tier in lol.

In comparison to a peak Curry? Kobe absolutely had shortcomings.


A guy who can run full speed, stop, square up, aim and get a shot off in less than a second with accuracy while contested.

That level of balance coordination Kobe never reached. Though he was obviously very high level. He wouldn’t have been able to tough shots on volume for a decade if not.

But Harden is honest to god right there with him on tough shot creation and balance, if not better.

Where do you draw the line on balance and coordination advantages while other guys are clearly more explosive?

You're deluding yourself if you don't think the buttery soft defense and spacing players are afforded isn't helping Curry and Harden.

[LakerLegend]

If we're talking coordination and reflexes I rest my case, this was after the achilles:

Watch on YouTube

[KobesScarf]

I think people are taking single athletic attributes, mostly leaping ability/pure vertical, and making some strange proclamations from there. Guys like Jason Richardson, Gerald Green, Latrell Sprewell, Zach Lavine, and Grant Hill really don't stack up against the total athletic package that Kobe offered.

J-Rich, Spreewell and Lavine are not just much better leapers the Kobe they are faster too.

As far as 2 guards Kobe is 9th after Richardson, Spreewell, Lavine, MJ, Thompson, Drexler, Wade and Vince

[LakerLegend]

I think people are taking single athletic attributes, mostly leaping ability/pure vertical, and making some strange proclamations from there. Guys like Jason Richardson, Gerald Green, Latrell Sprewell, Zach Lavine, and Grant Hill really don't stack up against the total athletic package that Kobe offered.

J-Rich, Spreewell and Lavine are not just much better leapers the Kobe they are faster too.

As far as 2 guards Kobe is 9th after Richardson, Spreewell, Lavine, MJ, Thompson, Drexler, Wade and Vince

J-Rich and Lavine aren't nearly as fast as Kobe, Sprewell is one of the quickest two guards ever but I'd give Kobe the edge there.

J-Rich and Lavine might have better pure verticals, but in game as far a combo of leaping and explosiveness Kobe is equal or superior to either of them.

[LakerLegend]

I mean, Kobe was definitely exceptionally athletic but when you compare him to his peers like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Dwayne Wade, I think it's difficult for me to put him above any of them.

Big Meh on TMac and Vince. Their functional basketball athleticism wasn’t on the level of the GOAT wings IMO.

Carter is a level below in that department but I think you should go re-watch young McGrady.

[KobesScarf]

I think people are taking single athletic attributes, mostly leaping ability/pure vertical, and making some strange proclamations from there. Guys like Jason Richardson, Gerald Green, Latrell Sprewell, Zach Lavine, and Grant Hill really don't stack up against the total athletic package that Kobe offered.

J-Rich, Spreewell and Lavine are not just much better leapers the Kobe they are faster too.

As far as 2 guards Kobe is 9th after Richardson, Spreewell, Lavine, MJ, Thompson, Drexler, Wade and Vince

J-Rich and Lavine aren't nearly as fast as Kobe, Sprewell is one of the quickest two guards ever but I'd give Kobe the edge there.

J-Rich and Lavine might have better pure verticals, but in game as far a combo of leaping and explosiveness Kobe is equal or superior to either of them.

If you think Kobe is equal to Richardson and Lavine in any aspect of jumping I don't know what to tell you. No one is a bigger Kobe fan than me, knowing realGM I feel like this thread is to overrate his athleticism and underrate his skill

[Laimbeer]

I actually think Kobe's skill and smoothness can mask his athleticism. Freak athletes like Nique, Wade, Vince, etc., who are less skilled seem more explosive because they don't do it in such a smooth fashion. Kobe's athleticism looks more effortless.

[Pelly24]

J-Rich, Spreewell and Lavine are not just much better leapers the Kobe they are faster too.

As far as 2 guards Kobe is 9th after Richardson, Spreewell, Lavine, MJ, Thompson, Drexler, Wade and Vince

J-Rich and Lavine aren't nearly as fast as Kobe, Sprewell is one of the quickest two guards ever but I'd give Kobe the edge there.

J-Rich and Lavine might have better pure verticals, but in game as far a combo of leaping and explosiveness Kobe is equal or superior to either of them.

If you think Kobe is equal to Richardson and Lavine in any aspect of jumping I don't know what to tell you. No one is a bigger Kobe fan than me, knowing realGM I feel like this thread is to overrate his athleticism and underrate his skill

Kobe dosn't jump higher than these guys, but he *kills them* in agility. I was watching a video of Michael Jackson doing a spin move, and the complete control over his body reminded me of Kobe. That's athleticism. It's so applicable. Kobe can get into spaces these guys can't because he could make himself small through gaps, position himself for awkward takeoffs, square up from obscene angles. People really underestimate these qualities.

[LakerLegend]

J-Rich, Spreewell and Lavine are not just much better leapers the Kobe they are faster too.

As far as 2 guards Kobe is 9th after Richardson, Spreewell, Lavine, MJ, Thompson, Drexler, Wade and Vince

J-Rich and Lavine aren't nearly as fast as Kobe, Sprewell is one of the quickest two guards ever but I'd give Kobe the edge there.

J-Rich and Lavine might have better pure verticals, but in game as far a combo of leaping and explosiveness Kobe is equal or superior to either of them.

If you think Kobe is equal to Richardson and Lavine in any aspect of jumping I don't know what to tell you. No one is a bigger Kobe fan than me, knowing realGM I feel like this thread is to overrate his athleticism and underrate his skill

Read what I wrote again, Kobe's in-game dunk package is levels beyond either of them.

Watch on YouTube

[McBubbles]

Yup. Those huge hands allow you to handle and manipulate the ball with such little effort. Kobe would have been just as good as Jordan if he had those hands.


It's one of the reasons why Leonard is able to emulate Jordan so easily and while a guy like LeBron can't. I think LeBron might has smaller hands than Stephen Curry, which makes LeBron more of a straight line player than these other guys. I don't want to imagine how good LeBron would have been with those hands.

Jesus Christ, I jumped the gun earlier but I guess me bringing up my grievances about this stupid hand bs was warranted.

No, Kobe's smaller hand size was not the reason he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan, nor was it their only significant physical difference.

MJ had a damn near 10 inch vertical leap advantage at his apex over Kobe, in addition to being faster, stronger, and having better stamina, but you think a 0.5 inch difference in their hands is the meaningful physical distinction between them?

And from a skills perspective MJ had much better shot selection and a better BBIQ both offensively and defensively, so even if Kobe had MJ's physicals he'd likely still be worse.

In regards to hand size, nobody ever thought this / thinks this about any other player ever. It only became relevant because Kobe himself said he wishes he had MJ's hands.

[And Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Allev Iverson etc all have average hand size for their height.

LOL...you claiming others are detached from reality then saying Jordan was capable of jumping nearly the a foot higher than Kobe is one of the the silliest things I’ve seen on these boards.

Kobe's commonly sited vertical is 38 inches, Michael Jordan's is 48. They're 12 inches in a foot, so if you can jump 10 inches higher than someone else, you are capable of jumping nearly a foot higher... Don't see the problem with that statement.

If your response is "watch the games", then yah, that difference doesn't seem wild to me at all. Forget obvious dunking comparisons, you see how ridiculously **** high MJ gets of the ground with his jumpshot? Kobe at his springiest never had that sort of elevation, honestly nobody has except MJ himself.

[LakerLegend]

Jesus Christ, I jumped the gun earlier but I guess me bringing up my grievances about this stupid hand bs was warranted.

No, Kobe's smaller hand size was not the reason he wasn't as good as Michael Jordan, nor was it their only significant physical difference.

MJ had a damn near 10 inch vertical leap advantage at his apex over Kobe, in addition to being faster, stronger, and having better stamina, but you think a 0.5 inch difference in their hands is the meaningful physical distinction between them?

And from a skills perspective MJ had much better shot selection and a better BBIQ both offensively and defensively, so even if Kobe had MJ's physicals he'd likely still be worse.

In regards to hand size, nobody ever thought this / thinks this about any other player ever. It only became relevant because Kobe himself said he wishes he had MJ's hands.

[And Steph Curry, Kyrie Irving, Allev Iverson etc all have average hand size for their height.

LOL...you claiming others are detached from reality then saying Jordan was capable of jumping nearly the a foot higher than Kobe is one of the the silliest things I’ve seen on these boards.

Kobe's commonly sited vertical is 38 inches, Michael Jordan's is 48. They're 12 inches in a foot, so if you can jump 10 inches higher than someone else, you are capable of jumping nearly a foot higher... Don't see the problem with that statement.

If your response is "watch the games", then yah, that difference doesn't seem wild to me at all. Forget obvious dunking comparisons, you see how ridiculously **** high MJ gets of the ground with his jumpshot? Kobe at his springiest never had that sort of elevation, honestly nobody has except MJ himself.

Those are made up online numbers, if you couldn’t figure that out then I don’t know what to tell you.

[McBubbles]

LOL...you claiming others are detached from reality then saying Jordan was capable of jumping nearly the a foot higher than Kobe is one of the the silliest things I’ve seen on these boards.

Kobe's commonly sited vertical is 38 inches, Michael Jordan's is 48. They're 12 inches in a foot, so if you can jump 10 inches higher than someone else, you are capable of jumping nearly a foot higher... Don't see the problem with that statement.

If your response is "watch the games", then yah, that difference doesn't seem wild to me at all. Forget obvious dunking comparisons, you see how ridiculously **** high MJ gets of the ground with his jumpshot? Kobe at his springiest never had that sort of elevation, honestly nobody has except MJ himself.

Those are made up online numbers, if you couldn’t figure that out then I don’t know what to tell you.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.1999.29.1.A1&ved=2ahUKEwjKy8HijKvuAhWLecAKHdoGAlsQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1bEy3mcmi9_CK39ED74AYZ

MICHAEL JORDAN=92S VERTICAL JUMP. =20
Krugh J, LeVeau B. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel =
Hill, NC.

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study, which was part of an advanced =
master=92s motion analysis class project in 1983, was to determine =
Michael Jordan=92s maximum vertical jump.
=20
SUBJECT: Michael Jordan=20

METHODS: Surface markers: Left lateral malleolus, left femoral =
epicondyle, left greater trochanter, left pelvic crest, and right distal =
phalanges of digits 2 and 3 of the hand.

Tasks (in order) were:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed - baseline
Vertical reach during a jump from standing
Vertical reach during a jump from running
Vertical reach during a 1 hand dunk=20
Vertical reach during a 2 hand dunk

All tasks, except baseline vertical reach were done with free swing of =
the upper limb(s). Equipment / instrumentation: Camera, lighting, =
markers, meter stick, and standard basketball. Location: Fetzer =
Gymnasium, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

DATA ANALYSIS:
Distance measurements were analyzed by comparison to a meter stick in =
view of the camera. Displacement measurements of reach (pelvis) involved =
measurement of vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 (pelvis) =
during a task minus vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 =
(pelvis) during bilateral flat-footed stance. Velocity measurements were =
analyzed by dividing vertical height distance traveled divided by time =
taken for the tasks. A VanGuard Motion Analyzer was used to analyze =
motion frame by frame.

RESULTS:=20
Maximum measurements:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed 93.67 in.
Floor to pelvic crest while standing 49.00 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from standing 35.93 in.
Vertical displacement of the pelvis during a jump from running 38.07 in.
Vertical velocity during a jump from running 701.00 o/sec.=20
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from running 45.76 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 1 hand dunk 41.70 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 2 hand dunk 40.93 in.

During the vertical reach from standing, push from the floor was with =
both feet. During the vertical reach during a jump from running, push =
from the floor was with one foot and momentum of the body, two upper =
limbs, and one lower limb was used to the maximum.=20

CONCLUSION / CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Maximum displacement for vertical reach =
was achieved with a jump from a running start, a 2 hand dunk, a 1 hand =
dunk, and a jump from standing, respectively. This is consistent with =
use of momentum of the body and limbs to assist with the vertical =
displacement. Michael Jordan=92s vertical jump ability during several =
tasks provides a standard with which athletic achievement by others can =
be compared.

MJ's vertical at the very least, is not made up. Everything I've seen for Kobe says that it's 37-38 inches.

[LakerLegend]

Kobe's commonly sited vertical is 38 inches, Michael Jordan's is 48. They're 12 inches in a foot, so if you can jump 10 inches higher than someone else, you are capable of jumping nearly a foot higher... Don't see the problem with that statement.

If your response is "watch the games", then yah, that difference doesn't seem wild to me at all. Forget obvious dunking comparisons, you see how ridiculously **** high MJ gets of the ground with his jumpshot? Kobe at his springiest never had that sort of elevation, honestly nobody has except MJ himself.

Those are made up online numbers, if you couldn’t figure that out then I don’t know what to tell you.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.jospt.org/doi/pdf/10.2519/jospt.1999.29.1.A1&ved=2ahUKEwjKy8HijKvuAhWLecAKHdoGAlsQFjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw1bEy3mcmi9_CK39ED74AYZ

MICHAEL JORDAN=92S VERTICAL JUMP. =20
Krugh J, LeVeau B. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Chapel =
Hill, NC.

PURPOSE: The purpose of this study, which was part of an advanced =
master=92s motion analysis class project in 1983, was to determine =
Michael Jordan=92s maximum vertical jump.
=20
SUBJECT: Michael Jordan=20

METHODS: Surface markers: Left lateral malleolus, left femoral =
epicondyle, left greater trochanter, left pelvic crest, and right distal =
phalanges of digits 2 and 3 of the hand.

Tasks (in order) were:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed - baseline
Vertical reach during a jump from standing
Vertical reach during a jump from running
Vertical reach during a 1 hand dunk=20
Vertical reach during a 2 hand dunk

All tasks, except baseline vertical reach were done with free swing of =
the upper limb(s). Equipment / instrumentation: Camera, lighting, =
markers, meter stick, and standard basketball. Location: Fetzer =
Gymnasium, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

DATA ANALYSIS:
Distance measurements were analyzed by comparison to a meter stick in =
view of the camera. Displacement measurements of reach (pelvis) involved =
measurement of vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 (pelvis) =
during a task minus vertical height to the tip of fingers 2 and 3 =
(pelvis) during bilateral flat-footed stance. Velocity measurements were =
analyzed by dividing vertical height distance traveled divided by time =
taken for the tasks. A VanGuard Motion Analyzer was used to analyze =
motion frame by frame.

RESULTS:=20
Maximum measurements:=20
Vertical reach while standing flat-footed 93.67 in.
Floor to pelvic crest while standing 49.00 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from standing 35.93 in.
Vertical displacement of the pelvis during a jump from running 38.07 in.
Vertical velocity during a jump from running 701.00 o/sec.=20
Vertical reach displacement during a jump from running 45.76 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 1 hand dunk 41.70 in.
Vertical reach displacement during a 2 hand dunk 40.93 in.

During the vertical reach from standing, push from the floor was with =
both feet. During the vertical reach during a jump from running, push =
from the floor was with one foot and momentum of the body, two upper =
limbs, and one lower limb was used to the maximum.=20

CONCLUSION / CLINICAL RELEVANCE: Maximum displacement for vertical reach =
was achieved with a jump from a running start, a 2 hand dunk, a 1 hand =
dunk, and a jump from standing, respectively. This is consistent with =
use of momentum of the body and limbs to assist with the vertical =
displacement. Michael Jordan=92s vertical jump ability during several =
tasks provides a standard with which athletic achievement by others can =
be compared.

MJ's vertical at the very least, is not made up. Everything I've seen for Kobe says that it's 37-38 inches.

I know what that is, his vertical supposedly measured at North Carolina, there are running Verticals and verticals from standing, the commonly accepted one for verticals references is from standing, you highlighted the running ones. None of those is close to 48 inches anyway. We also have no official record of Kobe’s vertical measurement at any point in his life. His vertical and Jordan’s both peaked in their early 20s

[ShotCreator]

I actually think Kobe's skill and smoothness can mask his athleticism. Freak athletes like Nique, Wade, Vince, etc., who are less skilled seem more explosive because they don't do it in such a smooth fashion. Kobe's athleticism looks more effortless.

When was Wade ever not smooth?
That’s the one thing I can easily remember about his game and I don’t watch it regularly.

This wasn’t a Russell Westbrook situation.

I actually think WADE looked more effortless than explosive. I’ve always felt that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=J688YhZsqbI

Wade had a lot of skill in his finishing game. The footwork, dribble moves, bank shots at all these different angles.

Wade had a polished post game when he slowed down in his final prime years.

You’d think he was John Wall or Clyde Drexler the way he’s thought of.

Easily a very fluid athlete himself.

[LakerLegend]

Watch on YouTube

[KobesScarf]

Kobe at his springiest never had that sort of elevation, honestly nobody has except MJ himself.

Rose

[LakerLegend]