The LeBron Thread 2021 Off-Season Edition

[yoyoboy]

The Curry thing is farfetched but if Lebron is any serious about winning again he'd be in the parking lot after game 6 calling Lillard

I hate to say it because I'm a fan of AD now, but I would trade Davis for Lillard in a heartbeat. I just think it's easier to replace what Davis brings to the table than it is to make this Lakers team an elite offense. LA was able to play like the #1 defense with no LeBron and no AD during a sizable stretch during the RS. Even with a not healthy LeBron and AD missing basically 2.5 games plus not being close to 100% when he did play, the Lakers held the Suns to a 111.9 ORTG, -5.2 points per 100 below their RS average.

Vogel is just a really good defensive coach in spite of what he clearly lacks in terms of offensive prowess and rotational decisions. So as long as the team has capable bodies and isn't throwing out complete liabilities, I trust them especially with a healthy LeBron to be a good defense.

Lillard is effectively a one-man offense. Portland posted the #2 offense in the league this year along with a bonkers 122.1 ORTG (+10.0 relative) against Denver in the first round. Lillard averaged 34 ppg on 66% TS along with 10 apg with a 4.7 ast/to ratio. Despite Davis being able to score 25 a game in his sleep, the gap in offensive value between the two just isn't even close due to AD's limitations as a creator. And honestly, unfortunately I think the more LeBron ages, the worse the fit is between the two because LeBron can't collapse the paint as easily to open up opportunities for Davis. Even when both were healthy, just from my admittedly limited eye test, it didn't seem to be like LeBron and Davis were playing as well off each other as they did last year. On the other hand, with Lillard, LeBron wouldn't have to play the point guard as much going forward and he'd be able to thrive in a more ideal role at this stage in his career, finishing out of the PnR with Dame rather than initiating them with Davis.

It's a moot point because Davis isn't getting traded, but I'd love to see Lillard with LeBron. Not to mention he's far more durable than AD.

[trickshot]

The Curry thing is farfetched but if Lebron is any serious about winning again he'd be in the parking lot after game 6 calling Lillard

I hate to say it because I'm a fan of AD now, but I would trade Davis for Lillard in a heartbeat. I just think it's easier to replace what Davis brings to the table than it is to make this Lakers team an elite offense. LA was able to play like the #1 defense with no LeBron and no AD during a sizable stretch during the RS. Even with a not healthy LeBron and AD missing basically 2.5 games plus not being close to 100% when he did play, the Lakers held the Suns to a 111.9 ORTG, -5.2 points per 100 below their RS average.

Vogel is just a really good defensive coach in spite of what he clearly lacks in terms of offense prowess and rotational decisions. So as long as the team has capable bodies and isn't throwing out complete liabilities, I trust them especially with a healthy LeBron to be a good defense.

Lillard is effectively a one-man offense. Portland posted the #2 offense in the league this year along with a bonkers 122.1 ORTG (+10.0 relative) against Denver in the first round. Lillard averaged 34 ppg on 66% TS along with 10 apg with a 4.7 ast/to ratio. Despite Davis being able to score 25 a game in his sleep, the gap in offensive value between the two just isn't even close due to AD's limitations as a creator. And honestly, unfortunately I think the more LeBron ages, the worse the fit is between the two because LeBron can't collapse the paint as easily to open up opportunities for Davis. Even when both were healthy, just from my admittedly limited eye test, it didn't seem to be like LeBron and Davis were playing as well off each other as they did last year. On the other hand, with Lillard, LeBron wouldn't have to play the point guard as much going forward and he'd be able to thrive in a more ideal role at this stage in his career, finishing out of the PnR with Dame rather than initiating them with Davis.

It's a moot point because Davis isn't getting traded, but I'd love to see Lillard with LeBron. Not to mention he's far more durable than AD.

Great points but I personally wouldn't do it for the Lakers as I don't think they are in it for only Lebron. I like AD for them, he's a huge reason Lakers have little to no bad matchups, an absolute rarity among bigs in a perimeter oriented league, a team building gem. Only problem is he doesn't play center and it's putting unnecessary pressure on an FO to look for serviceable bigs with a vet minimum or MLE level deal. Lakers shouldn't have needed to have 3 centers on their roster if AD was durable and could play C for 15-20mins most games but it is what it is I guess

[yoyoboy]

The Curry thing is farfetched but if Lebron is any serious about winning again he'd be in the parking lot after game 6 calling Lillard

I hate to say it because I'm a fan of AD now, but I would trade Davis for Lillard in a heartbeat. I just think it's easier to replace what Davis brings to the table than it is to make this Lakers team an elite offense. LA was able to play like the #1 defense with no LeBron and no AD during a sizable stretch during the RS. Even with a not healthy LeBron and AD missing basically 2.5 games plus not being close to 100% when he did play, the Lakers held the Suns to a 111.9 ORTG, -5.2 points per 100 below their RS average.

Vogel is just a really good defensive coach in spite of what he clearly lacks in terms of offense prowess and rotational decisions. So as long as the team has capable bodies and isn't throwing out complete liabilities, I trust them especially with a healthy LeBron to be a good defense.

Lillard is effectively a one-man offense. Portland posted the #2 offense in the league this year along with a bonkers 122.1 ORTG (+10.0 relative) against Denver in the first round. Lillard averaged 34 ppg on 66% TS along with 10 apg with a 4.7 ast/to ratio. Despite Davis being able to score 25 a game in his sleep, the gap in offensive value between the two just isn't even close due to AD's limitations as a creator. And honestly, unfortunately I think the more LeBron ages, the worse the fit is between the two because LeBron can't collapse the paint as easily to open up opportunities for Davis. Even when both were healthy, just from my admittedly limited eye test, it didn't seem to be like LeBron and Davis were playing as well off each other as they did last year. On the other hand, with Lillard, LeBron wouldn't have to play the point guard as much going forward and he'd be able to thrive in a more ideal role at this stage in his career, finishing out of the PnR with Dame rather than initiating them with Davis.

It's a moot point because Davis isn't getting traded, but I'd love to see Lillard with LeBron. Not to mention he's far more durable than AD.

Great points but I personally wouldn't do it for the Lakers as I don't think they are in it for only Lebron. I like AD for them, he's a huge reason Lakers have little to no bad matchups, an absolute rarity among bigs in a perimeter oriented league, a team building gem. Only problem is he doesn't play center and it's putting unnecessary pressure on an FO to look for serviceable bigs with a vet minimum or MLE level deal. Lakers shouldn't have needed to have 3 centers on their roster if AD was durable and could play C for 15-20mins most games but it is what it is I guess

Well yeah I mean if you're the Lakers you'd sooner trade LeBron than you would Davis. Since this is the LeBron thread, I'm just thinking more in terms of maximizing his title chances.

[trickshot]

I hate to say it because I'm a fan of AD now, but I would trade Davis for Lillard in a heartbeat. I just think it's easier to replace what Davis brings to the table than it is to make this Lakers team an elite offense. LA was able to play like the #1 defense with no LeBron and no AD during a sizable stretch during the RS. Even with a not healthy LeBron and AD missing basically 2.5 games plus not being close to 100% when he did play, the Lakers held the Suns to a 111.9 ORTG, -5.2 points per 100 below their RS average.

Vogel is just a really good defensive coach in spite of what he clearly lacks in terms of offense prowess and rotational decisions. So as long as the team has capable bodies and isn't throwing out complete liabilities, I trust them especially with a healthy LeBron to be a good defense.

Lillard is effectively a one-man offense. Portland posted the #2 offense in the league this year along with a bonkers 122.1 ORTG (+10.0 relative) against Denver in the first round. Lillard averaged 34 ppg on 66% TS along with 10 apg with a 4.7 ast/to ratio. Despite Davis being able to score 25 a game in his sleep, the gap in offensive value between the two just isn't even close due to AD's limitations as a creator. And honestly, unfortunately I think the more LeBron ages, the worse the fit is between the two because LeBron can't collapse the paint as easily to open up opportunities for Davis. Even when both were healthy, just from my admittedly limited eye test, it didn't seem to be like LeBron and Davis were playing as well off each other as they did last year. On the other hand, with Lillard, LeBron wouldn't have to play the point guard as much going forward and he'd be able to thrive in a more ideal role at this stage in his career, finishing out of the PnR with Dame rather than initiating them with Davis.

It's a moot point because Davis isn't getting traded, but I'd love to see Lillard with LeBron. Not to mention he's far more durable than AD.

Great points but I personally wouldn't do it for the Lakers as I don't think they are in it for only Lebron. I like AD for them, he's a huge reason Lakers have little to no bad matchups, an absolute rarity among bigs in a perimeter oriented league, a team building gem. Only problem is he doesn't play center and it's putting unnecessary pressure on an FO to look for serviceable bigs with a vet minimum or MLE level deal. Lakers shouldn't have needed to have 3 centers on their roster if AD was durable and could play C for 15-20mins most games but it is what it is I guess

Well yeah I mean if you're the Lakers you'd sooner trade LeBron than you would Davis. Since this is the LeBron thread, I'm just thinking more in terms of maximizing his title chances.

Def, I know what you mean, or at least I do now. Just wanted to get your take on how they should proceed this summer, especially with regards to the Center and ballhandling roles

[FC93]

There's a chance Lillard does get moved but the chance that he is moved to the Lakers is basically 0%. It's higher than the ridiculous Curry talk, but only because me winning a Finals MVP for the Lakers next year is more likely than Curry going to the Lakers. The best chance the Lakers have of adding a star is probably hoping that one will take a pay-cut in the hopes of winning a ring. The most obvious names are Chris Paul, 36; Kyle Lowery, 35; Mike Conley, 33; and DeMar DeRozan, 31. Of those I think Lowery is probably the only one that feels like a real possibility. Maybe they target Otto Porter Jr and pray he stays healthy or something, he can knock down 3s. Evan Fournier is going to be looking for a big contract so he's off the table. They're going to need to be a little creative and very smart with their targets.

[MartinToVaught]

Lillard demanding Kidd as the Blazers' next coach is a pretty strong indicator that he's staying. If he wanted out of Portland, he wouldn't care who they hire to replace Stotts.

As for Curry, the only team I could ever see him leaving the Warriors for is the Hornets towards the end of his career. I would be stunned if he ever got traded anywhere in his prime, let alone to the Lakers.

[trickshot]

Losing in the first round wasn't ideal but it's still better than the mega humiliation of a seventh finals loss at the hands of Kyrie, KD too. Lakers clearly lacked the firepower to go toe to toe with them, especially with how bad the shooters regressed. Smh at Matthews, Caruso, KCP and double smh at Morris and Kuzma, these two especially talked such a big game all season just to crap the bed. It's not like Kuzma even showed up last year either

[Dupp]

Kinda crazy losing to the nets would have been worse for Lebrons rep but it’s the truth.

Nba, where first round exits > finals losses.



Also gimme healthy Davis over Lilly as a partner for lebron. He’s perfect for lebron. Obviously Lilly is the perfect offensive partner but Davis gives them the ability to be elite on both sides.

[nzahir]

Why are we wasting time discussing moves for Dame or Curry?

AD and Bron are staying

Main move will be bringing back Dennis or trading him

If we keep him, then the moves should be around Kuzma, Trez, and maybe Pope or THT?

Add more shooting

[MisterHibachi]

Trading AD is crazy talk. Are we already forgetting what a healthy AD is capable of? He's probably the best defensive player in the league for a playoff setting and was arguably the best player in a title run just last year. Lillard is not that level of two way player.

[GSP]

Ad is def better than Dame mainly to defense but at this point we have to start question how the bubble affected his jump shooting

Read on Twitter

If Ad isnt shooting like he did in the bubble and Bron continues to decline here on out with age/injuries is the model for how the Lakers building around the 2 really a championship one?

[trickshot]

Kinda crazy losing to the nets would have been worse for Lebrons rep but it’s the truth.

Nba, where first round exits > finals losses.



Also gimme healthy Davis over Lilly as a partner for lebron. He’s perfect for lebron. Obviously Lilly is the perfect offensive partner but Davis gives them the ability to be elite on both sides.

It's pretty idiot logic tbh. Losing in the finals should mean you were the 2nd best team every year you didn't win. In other words you only ever lost to the best. Instead losing to Phoenix and getting bounced out of the first round is now more legacy preserving than actually winning the damn series, winning the 2nd round, conference finals and only just falling short to the eventual champions.

[eminence]

Not trading THT when his value was high for a player who could contribute during the current title window is looking really stupid now. It's going to be hard to upgrade the roster now.

I agree that optimally you keep:

LeBron
Davis
Caruso
KCP
Matthews
Gasol

And everyone else should be dangled in trades/let go. Not a fan of bringing in Bertans at all. The team doesn't need regular season bodies. The team needs guys who can shoot but also can't be played off the floor in the playoffs. Bertans posted a 128.3 DRTG in the Sixers series this year. You can't hide a guy like that.

Who’s coming in that’s any better - the ‘assets’ are Kuzma (negative value contract to match salary), their 1st round pick this season, and THT. It’s a straight up garbage pile. A few other guys could be S&T to match salary, but unlikely to be positive value at that point.

[yoyoboy]

Not trading THT when his value was high for a player who could contribute during the current title window is looking really stupid now. It's going to be hard to upgrade the roster now.

I agree that optimally you keep:

LeBron
Davis
Caruso
KCP
Matthews
Gasol

And everyone else should be dangled in trades/let go. Not a fan of bringing in Bertans at all. The team doesn't need regular season bodies. The team needs guys who can shoot but also can't be played off the floor in the playoffs. Bertans posted a 128.3 DRTG in the Sixers series this year. You can't hide a guy like that.

Who’s coming in that’s any better - the ‘assets’ are Kuzma (negative value contract to match salary), their 1st round pick this season, and THT. It’s a straight up garbage pile. A few other guys could be S&T to match salary, but unlikely to be positive value at that point.

THT at 20 years old definitely still has solid value around the league. At the deadline Toronto was willing to give up Lowry with THT as the main piece coming back, and I don't think he's done enough to hurt his value so much since then that he's "garbage" now. And I don't think Kuzma is much of a negative value contract tbh. He's 25 and he's a solid bench player who's a decent defender, a passable 3P shooter, a good cutter, and a good offensive rebounder. His shooting inconsistency can be frustrating especially for a team like the Lakers that is so deprived of shooting, but overall Kuzma is an average role player who should probably be making $9-10 mil/year rather than $13 mil/year. He's a little overpaid for his current production but in this league I think you can be a little overpaid without necessarily being a negative value contract just because teams are desperate to add talent and most role players end up a little overpaid relative to what's ideal. I think as a player he's of slight positive trade value but the slightly too expensive contract makes him about neutral value. Maybe slightly positive if you get the right (desperate) team on the phone. I think $13 mil in essentially salary filler plus THT and a late first round pick can get you a difference maker role player, but I would have to research who's probably available.

[McBubbles]

Also, you guys have gotta stop using regular season nunbers to justify why the team is actually fine as it is. There are players that are good in the regular season, players that are good in the post season and players that are good in both. Pretty much every single person on the team not named LeBron, AD, KCP or Caruso is a regular season player that is either extremely exploitable in a match up or just not resilient / consistent enough come playoffs, so in my mind the regular season nunbers pre injury or 21-6 is irrelevant. Dennis, Harrell, Kuzma, Gasol, Markieff and Drummond come to mind. Even regardless of fitting next to your superstar players, something which half of the players listed do not, they just suck ass talent wise and cannot produce come post season.

Speaking of fit though, players that provide non AD rim protection (or just rim presence in general actually), secondary playmaking AND **** SHOOTING are needed. Literally if nothing else, just some shooting for the love of god. This team being league average from 3 would have gotten them out the first round. This team being THEIR PEDESTRIAN REGULAR SEASON AVERAGE, 21st ranked 35.3%, would have likely gotten them out of the first round.

I think going 5-5-5-6 actually hurt the team in the long run. It's given the FO and a lot of fans a false sense of confidence in the Lakers blue print. It wasn't just LeBron, AD and great defence. It was Prime (Somehow), Mega Efficient LeBron, Mega Hot Streak AD, Hot Streak Rondo, Hot Streak Markieff and mediocre competition. It took Rondo, Morris and AD mega career high shooting splits just for the Lakers to be the 12th ranked 3 point shooting team in the playoffs at 35.3%. This season the playmaking got worse, shooting got worse, rim protection got worse and the competition got much better, and yet people still convince themselves that this team healthy was a contender because of the pre-injury regular season record.

Everything you say is true, and I too was worried about this, but I was also confident because even with all the positive 90th+ percentile outcomes that the Lakers had going for them, it’s difficult to run though a playoffs having an all time type great NET rating sans garbage time minutes, so even a reduction in outcomes I thought would be good enough with a health AD and James.

—James had that great mega efficiency playing without space as everything was at the rim or a three (70% of his shots) and only 14% from 10-22 feet. He also did most of that not in full gear. I thought he only turned it on full gear for the Nuggets closeout game and games 5 and 6 in the Finals. Before Hill clumsily fell on him, he looked like he could get there again.

—Most worried about AD and Rondo. AD hit 40% from 10-16ft and 55% from 16-22ft primarily on ISO/post up face ups, i.e., offense out of nothing. He wasn’t going to do that again. But I thought he would ameliorate some with by drawing fouls as he’s shown to be capable of and if struggling in a series, I thought he’d go to. He had a great defensive playoffs and I thought that would be replicated.

Rondo...that was most worrying. Literally had his most efficient playoffs ever. Defense was poor but his connection with AD produced high level offense and for the first time, James could sit and leads didn't evaporate as AD+Rondo had the Lakers at a 122.7 ORtg and about +5 NET with James off court. Needless to say, Rondo’s production wasn’t replaced.

—The thing that gave me the most confidence was that the Lakers went the entire season and the entire playoffs last year rarely going to the magic bullet, i.e., the AD/James lineup. It had been super dominant throughout last year and this year (+17 per 100 possessions) and it felt like they could always go to it when needed since AD doesn’t want to plan the 5. But neither James nor Davis were healthy.

—The shooting...it finally caught up with the Lakers. No Morris making threes this year.

Game 6:

Wide open threes: Lakers 5/20, Suns 8/17
Open threes: Lakers 4/12, Suns 8/14
Total: Lakers 9/32, Suns 16/31

Series:

Wide open threes: Lakers 5.7/17.7, Suns 6.3/13.8
Open threes: Lakers 3.3/12.2, Suns 4.2/13.5
Total: Lakers 30.1%, Suns 38.5%

Pretty big gap to overcome if Lebron and AD aren’t going to be able to impose their will on a series. Their “best game” was a 12/35 in game 5 which was just LeBron in the third quarter in a game that was already lost. They didn’t have a single average shooting game in the entire series despite generating better looks in the series.

Both the cracks were always there, but there was reason to be optimistic especially during locked in games n which AD and James we’re healthy when the Lakers suffocated teams.

There BEST shooting performance of 34% was worse than their regular season average of 35% lordy lord.

In regards to your optimistic points though, it basically comes down to "Lebron and AD are amazing when healthy", which is true, but so are KD,Kyrie and Garden, and Jokic and Murray and MPJ, and Giannis, Middleton and Holiday. Difference is they actually have consistent, talented and well fitting role players if they're healthy I think at absolute best they lose in the Finals, which would arguably be a worse scenario than what we got.

[thebigbird]

Why are we wasting time discussing moves for Dame or Curry?

AD and Bron are staying

Main move will be bringing back Dennis or trading him

If we keep him, then the moves should be around Kuzma, Trez, and maybe Pope or THT?

Add more shooting

Because it’s the offseason and we have like two months until free agency and five months until the next season. There’s not much else LeBron-related to talk about.

I’d trade AD for Dame in a heartbeat not gonna lie.. The paint would be wide open for LeBron playing next to someone like Dame. As great as LeBron and Kyrie were together, him and Dame might be even better. Healthy AD is probably a better second option but who knows how long healthy AD will exist. We might just have gotten lucky last year.

[GSP]

Also, you guys have gotta stop using regular season nunbers to justify why the team is actually fine as it is. There are players that are good in the regular season, players that are good in the post season and players that are good in both. Pretty much every single person on the team not named LeBron, AD, KCP or Caruso is a regular season player that is either extremely exploitable in a match up or just not resilient / consistent enough come playoffs, so in my mind the regular season nunbers pre injury or 21-6 is irrelevant. Dennis, Harrell, Kuzma, Gasol, Markieff and Drummond come to mind. Even regardless of fitting next to your superstar players, something which half of the players listed do not, they just suck ass talent wise and cannot produce come post season.

Speaking of fit though, players that provide non AD rim protection (or just rim presence in general actually), secondary playmaking AND **** SHOOTING are needed. Literally if nothing else, just some shooting for the love of god. This team being league average from 3 would have gotten them out the first round. This team being THEIR PEDESTRIAN REGULAR SEASON AVERAGE, 21st ranked 35.3%, would have likely gotten them out of the first round.

I think going 5-5-5-6 actually hurt the team in the long run. It's given the FO and a lot of fans a false sense of confidence in the Lakers blue print. It wasn't just LeBron, AD and great defence. It was Prime (Somehow), Mega Efficient LeBron, Mega Hot Streak AD, Hot Streak Rondo, Hot Streak Markieff and mediocre competition. It took Rondo, Morris and AD mega career high shooting splits just for the Lakers to be the 12th ranked 3 point shooting team in the playoffs at 35.3%. This season the playmaking got worse, shooting got worse, rim protection got worse and the competition got much better, and yet people still convince themselves that this team healthy was a contender because of the pre-injury regular season record.

Everything you say is true, and I too was worried about this, but I was also confident because even with all the positive 90th+ percentile outcomes that the Lakers had going for them, it’s difficult to run though a playoffs having an all time type great NET rating sans garbage time minutes, so even a reduction in outcomes I thought would be good enough with a health AD and James.

—James had that great mega efficiency playing without space as everything was at the rim or a three (70% of his shots) and only 14% from 10-22 feet. He also did most of that not in full gear. I thought he only turned it on full gear for the Nuggets closeout game and games 5 and 6 in the Finals. Before Hill clumsily fell on him, he looked like he could get there again.

—Most worried about AD and Rondo. AD hit 40% from 10-16ft and 55% from 16-22ft primarily on ISO/post up face ups, i.e., offense out of nothing. He wasn’t going to do that again. But I thought he would ameliorate some with by drawing fouls as he’s shown to be capable of and if struggling in a series, I thought he’d go to. He had a great defensive playoffs and I thought that would be replicated.

Rondo...that was most worrying. Literally had his most efficient playoffs ever. Defense was poor but his connection with AD produced high level offense and for the first time, James could sit and leads didn't evaporate as AD+Rondo had the Lakers at a 122.7 ORtg and about +5 NET with James off court. Needless to say, Rondo’s production wasn’t replaced.

—The thing that gave me the most confidence was that the Lakers went the entire season and the entire playoffs last year rarely going to the magic bullet, i.e., the AD/James lineup. It had been super dominant throughout last year and this year (+17 per 100 possessions) and it felt like they could always go to it when needed since AD doesn’t want to plan the 5. But neither James nor Davis were healthy.

—The shooting...it finally caught up with the Lakers. No Morris making threes this year.

Game 6:

Wide open threes: Lakers 5/20, Suns 8/17
Open threes: Lakers 4/12, Suns 8/14
Total: Lakers 9/32, Suns 16/31

Series:

Wide open threes: Lakers 5.7/17.7, Suns 6.3/13.8
Open threes: Lakers 3.3/12.2, Suns 4.2/13.5
Total: Lakers 30.1%, Suns 38.5%

Pretty big gap to overcome if Lebron and AD aren’t going to be able to impose their will on a series. Their “best game” was a 12/35 in game 5 which was just LeBron in the third quarter in a game that was already lost. They didn’t have a single average shooting game in the entire series despite generating better looks in the series.

Both the cracks were always there, but there was reason to be optimistic especially during locked in games n which AD and James we’re healthy when the Lakers suffocated teams.

There BEST shooting performance of 34% was worse than their regular season average of 35% lordy lord.

In regards to your optimistic points though, it basically comes down to "Lebron and AD are amazing when healthy", which is true, but so are KD,Kyrie and Garden, and Jokic and Murray and MPJ, and Giannis, Middleton and Holiday. Difference is they actually have consistent, talented and well fitting role players if they're healthy I think at absolute best they lose in the Finals, which would arguably be a worse scenario than what we got.

Lakers 3pt shooting is obvious the biggest issue but i think this series exaggerates it some. Suns are the one of the best teams in the league at defending the 3 and getting players they want to shoot 3s at weaker locations for them

[Dupp]

No team was beating teh nets anyway so probably better to lose early and get some rest

[D.Brasco]

Kinda crazy losing to the nets would have been worse for Lebrons rep but it’s the truth.

Nba, where first round exits > finals losses.



Also gimme healthy Davis over Lilly as a partner for lebron. He’s perfect for lebron. Obviously Lilly is the perfect offensive partner but Davis gives them the ability to be elite on both sides.

Sad but true. Losing in the first is probably seen as better than the Lakers making it to the finals only for LeBron to be beat by Durant on another Super team.

[falcolombardi]

Kinda crazy losing to the nets would have been worse for Lebrons rep but it’s the truth.

Nba, where first round exits > finals losses.



Also gimme healthy Davis over Lilly as a partner for lebron. He’s perfect for lebron. Obviously Lilly is the perfect offensive partner but Davis gives them the ability to be elite on both sides.

It's pretty idiot logic tbh. Losing in the finals should mean you were the 2nd best team every year you didn't win. In other words you only ever lost to the best. Instead losing to Phoenix and getting bounced out of the first round is now more legacy preserving than actually winning the damn series, winning the 2nd round, conference finals and only just falling short to the eventual champions.

is a logic that sometimes rewards losing or not trying and prefers " not losing" more than trying

if you miss the playoffs or lose early people will generally understand the star player didnt have a good enough cast to compete and not give it too much Wright

if he defies expectations and carries those teams far, then loses in finals against much stronger teams then he is criticized for being a finals loser

jordan won a ring at 34 years old, retired and dont play the next 2 years, fans swear he would have kept winning

lebron won a ring at 35, lost at 36 and now people way his legacy is ruined, has he just not played or got injured the full season these question wouldnt come and people would be saying he would have won if healthy

this obsession with finals record and punishing losses (arbitrarily) more than rewarding victories is anti competitive

it means is better to not try and not fail than to try and lose, ironically going against jordan own motto ("i have won because all the times i tried and failed before that") is literally what sports SHOULDNT be about

people who care more about finals record than losing early literally prefer not trying than trying and failing that is weak ass **** lol

tldr: if whatever criticism you have to a player would be LESS had he lost more or tried less or didnt play then that criticism is Badly thought out, it ironically is loss rewarding

thinking that only rings matter inherently rewards losing and not trying

caring more about how many times a player played bad that how many they played well inherently is anti winning too

if a player had 10 mvp years then retires and another has 10 mvp years, then get a old and injured but contonues being a winming team contributor in a smaller role then the secomd player had the better carrer

focusing on the averages, who has the better prime as only thingh that matters or caring too much about about who has the less black marks in his resume is missing the forest for the threes