The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 4)

MisterHibachi · Post #1401 » by **MisterHibachi** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:09 pm

SSB has already pointed how LeBron had already started to outplay Steph from like mid-March.

Colbinii · Post #1402 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:13 pm

The fact is LeBron is good enough to get his team the #1/#2 seed while coasting for 3/4 of the regular season, and then ramping up during the last 1/4 of the season and into the finals where he peaks at a GOAT level. Curry really has no business in this conversation.

parapooper · Post #1403 » by **parapooper** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:27 pm

Real bums me out LeBron had those back problems the last few years - 2014 for instance could have been another GOATish season with better defense/stamina (not sure how offense could have been better). Of course the Spurs probably still would have won given his team support in the PS

Post #1404 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:28 pm

Colbinii wrote: Curry really has no business in this conversation.

This isn't a productive comment. IT's clear that Curry DOES belong in this conversation because over the RS and even prior to the OKC series, he was performing at an incredible level. Don't cheapen the discussion with nonsense.

Colbinii · Post #1405 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:54 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Colbinii wrote: Curry really has no business in this conversation.

This isn't a productive comment. IT's clear that Curry DOES belong in this conversation because over the RS and even prior to the OKC series, he was performing at an incredible level. Don't cheapen the discussion with nonsense.

He doesn't if you value two way play and post-season play highly.

Post #1406 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:45 pm

Colbinii wrote:He doesn't if you value two way play and post-season play highly.

No, you're wrong. It's absolutely fair to make a pro-Lebron argument, and even to consider things strongly in his favor.

It's not really at all sensible to say that Curry has no business in the conversation. That's just nonsense.

mysticOscar · Post #1407 » by **mysticOscar** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:58 pm

Colbinii wrote:The fact is LeBron is good enough to get his team the #1/#2 seed while coasting for 3/4 of the regular season, and then ramping up during the last 1/4 of the season and into the finals where he peaks at a GOAT level. Curry really has no business in this conversation.

Ppl keep stating that he was coasting in the RS...but in reality it was more him trying to get the synergy and chemistry right for his team and adjusting his game....i think in this regard he splendid job as a leader.

mysticOscar · Post #1408 » by **mysticOscar** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:01 pm

Colbinii wrote:The fact is LeBron is good enough to get his team the #1/#2 seed while coasting for 3/4 of the regular season, and then ramping up during the last 1/4 of the season and into the finals where he peaks at a GOAT level. Curry really has no business in this conversation.

Ppl keep stating that he was coasting in the RS...but in reality it was more him trying to get the synergy and chemistry right for his team and adjusting his game....i think in this regard he splendid job as a leader.

You make it seem like he didnt even try at all and that he can get a team to the #1 seed with his eyes closed.....lets get real here

Dupp · Post #1409 » by **Dupp** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:58 pm

^ I agree somewhat but think he was mainly coasting. He said it's time to get into playoff mode and from that moment on he started playing significantly better, that's no coincidence.

Edit - reasons for lebrons coasting were probably two fold though. 1) To preserve himself and 2) to get other players contributing more individually and as a team to prepare them for the playoffs.

dreamshake · Post #1410 » by **dreamshake** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:18 pm

mysticOscar wrote:
Colbinii wrote:The fact is LeBron is good enough to get his team the #1/#2 seed while coasting for 3/4 of the regular season, and then ramping up during the last 1/4 of the season and into the finals where he peaks at a GOAT level. Curry really has no business in this conversation.

Ppl keep stating that he was coasting in the RS...but in reality it was more him trying to get the synergy and chemistry right for his team and adjusting his game....i think in this regard he splendid job as a leader.

You make it seem like he didnt even try at all and that he can get a team to the #1 seed with his eyes closed.....lets get real here

I don't know how you can watch how he played in the playoffs - especially on defense - and not conclude that he was coasting in the regular season. Shot blocking is an example of something he only really does anymore when he's really trying. He had 0.6 per game in the regular season. That doubled to 1.3 in the playoffs and then almost doubled again to 2.3 in the Finals. It's not a coincidence that he was blocking 4x as many shots against the Warriors in June as he was against lottery teams in November. Blocks are fairly anecdotal evidence, but there have been several posts on this board showing how massively he rose in impact stats after the playoffs from where he was at the end of the regular season, which supports the idea he was coasting.

PCProductions · Post #1411 » by **PCProductions** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:20 pm

I'm mostly in agreement with you guys, though it's pretty insane to see that play through given how massive of a lead Curry had going into the playoffs.

Colbinii · Post #1412 » by **Colbinii** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:27 pm

tsherkin wrote:
Colbinii wrote:He doesn't if you value two way play and post-season play highly.

No, you're wrong. It's absolutely fair to make a pro-Lebron argument, and even to consider things strongly in his favor.

It's not really at all sensible to say that Curry has no business in the conversation. That's just nonsense.

No, I am not wrong, because it is my opinion. I really value the post-season much higher than the regular season, and you don't, which is fine. But I am not going to lecture you and sit behind my computer screen saying "You are wrong because you value something different than me." That comes off arrogant.
I am open to hearing why regular season is so much more important than the post-season, especially when a championship should be the end goal for POY.
In my opinion, with the way LeBron played in the post-season, no player is in the conversation with him this season as who was the league's best player.

RSCD3_ · Post #1413 » by **RSCD3_** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:23 am

Really classy move by the Banana Boat Squadron. They came to espn for it.

mysticOscar · Post #1414 » by **mysticOscar** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:34 am

dreamshake wrote:
mysticOscar wrote:
Colbinii wrote:The fact is LeBron is good enough to get his team the #1/#2 seed while coasting for 3/4 of the regular season, and then ramping up during the last 1/4 of the season and into the finals where he peaks at a GOAT level. Curry really has no business in this conversation.

Ppl keep stating that he was coasting in the RS...but in reality it was more him trying to get the synergy and chemistry right for his team and adjusting his game....i think in this regard he splendid job as a leader.

You make it seem like he didnt even try at all and that he can get a team to the #1 seed with his eyes closed.....lets get real here

I don't know how you can watch how he played in the playoffs - especially on defense - and not conclude that he was coasting in the regular season. Shot blocking is an example of something he only really does anymore when he's really trying. He had 0.6 per game in the regular season. That doubled to 1.3 in the playoffs and then almost doubled again to 2.3 in the Finals. It's not a coincidence that he was blocking 4x as many shots against the Warriors in June as he was against lottery teams in November. Blocks are fairly anecdotal evidence, but there have been several posts on this board showing how massively he rose in impact stats after the playoffs from where he was at the end of the regular season, which supports the idea he was coasting.

U make it seem like he just flicked a switch in the playoffs while he coasted in the rs.
Remember the team had a new coach, new direction....it was more about adjustment and building team chemistry in the RS (eapecially in 1st half)....u see his game play trend up before even the payoffs started.

Colbinii · Post #1415 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:21 pm

mysticOscar wrote:
dreamshake wrote:
mysticOscar wrote:
Ppl keep stating that he was coasting in the RS...but in reality it was more him trying to get the synergy and chemistry right for his team and adjusting his game....i think in this regard he splendid job as a leader.

You make it seem like he didnt even try at all and that he can get a team to the #1 seed with his eyes closed.....lets get real here

I don't know how you can watch how he played in the playoffs - especially on defense - and not conclude that he was coasting in the regular season. Shot blocking is an example of something he only really does anymore when he's really trying. He had 0.6 per game in the regular season. That doubled to 1.3 in the playoffs and then almost doubled again to 2.3 in the Finals. It's not a coincidence that he was blocking 4x as many shots against the Warriors in June as he was against lottery teams in November. Blocks are fairly anecdotal evidence, but there have been several posts on this board showing how massively he rose in impact stats after the playoffs from where he was at the end of the regular season, which supports the idea he was coasting.

U make it seem like he just flicked a switch in the playoffs while he coasted in the rs.
Remember the team had a new coach, new direction....it was more about adjustment and building team chemistry in the RS (eapecially in 1st half)....u see his game play trend up before even the payoffs started.

That is because his effort increased, because he wasn't giving full effort during 3/4 of the season, also known as...coasting!

RSCD3_ · Post #1416 » by **RSCD3_** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:26 pm

From Reddit

According to GameScore, LeBron's game 5 is the third best Finals performance ever and game 6 is the best. Draymond's game 7 is #8 and Kyrie Irving's game 5 is #24.

Source http://bkref.com/tiny/HSjmK

So before game 5, lebron had never been in the top 25 of finals game scores, and then he puts up the second greatest of all time (behind tim duncan's 32/20/6/3/7 in the first game of the 2003 finals) and the next game puts up the greatest game score ever.

Not that the stat is perfect but I find it interesting how hot he burned for those two games. People say the finals wasnt as impressive as it is number wise since he got down 3-1 in the first place but when his production is so impressive in two games that even with average finals casts they would be almost guranteed wins, then one way to look at it like with thise performances as almost guranteed victories, they only needed to win 2 out of 5 other games to win the series. I dont know, but food for thought IMO

Ballerhogger · Post #1417 » by **Ballerhogger** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:49 pm

OK maybe he did surpass magic .. where is magic game 6 a against the 76ers.

Colbinii · Post #1418 » by **Colbinii** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:52 pm

RSCD3_ wrote:From Reddit

According to GameScore, LeBron's game 5 is the third best Finals performance ever and game 6 is the best. Draymond's game 7 is #8 and Kyrie Irving's game 5 is #24.

Source http://bkref.com/tiny/HSjmK

So before game 5, lebron had never been in the top 25 of finals game scores, and then he puts up the second greatest of all time (behind tim duncan's 32/20/6/3/7 in the first game of the 2003 finals) and the next game puts up the greatest game score ever.

Not that the stat is perfect but I find it interesting how hot he burned for those two games. People say the finals wasnt as impressive as it is number wise since he got down 3-1 in the first place but when his production is so impressive in two games that even with average finals casts they would be almost guranteed wins, then one way to look at it like with thise performances as almost guranteed victories, they only needed to win 2 out of 5 other games to win the series. I dont know, but food for thought IMO

The Irony of all of this is that this year had 4 of the top 24 NBA Finals performances yet people think the top end talent of the NBA isn't as high as the 90's.

Woodsanity · Post #1419 » by **Woodsanity** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:39 pm

PCProductions wrote:I'm honestly in shock about how Lebron just won the Player Comparison Board vote for player of the year. Do you guys agree with this?

I value PS play higher than RS play and Lebron was far better than Curry in the PS so I think its fair. In the Finals Lebron was absolutely incredible, games 5 and 6 were all time great performances.

On the other hand Curry had a notable advantage in the RS as well, one of the best RS of all time. But at the end of the day people talk more about Hakeem's PS performances than D Rob's outstanding RS play.

Lost92Bricks · Post #1420 » by **Lost92Bricks** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:31 pm

RSCD3_ wrote:Source http://bkref.com/tiny/HSjmK

Off-topic, but looking at that list, this is why I don't care much that Barkley didn't win a ring.

He has two performances in the top 10 - game 2 and game 4 of the '93 finals.

It just so happened that he was one-upped in both games by the greatest player of all time. He absolutely played well enough in (most circumstances) to win a championship. Duncan, Nowitzki, Garnett never had to go up against anything like that in the finals. Just being real.