2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

[MoreyWins]

The Mavericks kind of need Anthony Davis. Not to win a playoff series, but just to mask some of this pain. We're like two weeks from the Luka return game and you would hope the Mavericks actually put up a fight (hopefully even win).

[Fadeaway_J]

AD back tonight or tomorrow. This seems ill-advised. Hopefully he's actually fully healthy. Not like take 1 where Dallas got one half out of him.

But what is the thinking here? We really want to make the play-in where we probably won't get out with the upside getting run by OKC in 4 games?

This season is lost. Dallas needs to accept that and not risk AD(or Lively) in futility.

I'm guessing AD himself is the one driving this push to return.

[Dr Positivity]

I agree Nuggets roster better than Timberwolves with KG and in decade where reaching for superteam combos has flopped a lot, the less sexy approach of players who fit him perfectly has its merits, although I'm not sure we would value Murray and Gordon that much on other teams. Jokic had bad luck losing 2 playoff seasons with Murray injury as well. That they couldn't at least lose in the finals last year is a little disappointing though.

[TheGOATRises007]

I agree Nuggets roster better than Timberwolves with KG and in decade where reaching for superteam combos has flopped a lot, the less sexy approach of players who fit him perfectly has its merits, although I'm not sure we would value Murray and Gordon that much on other teams. Jokic had bad luck losing 2 playoff seasons with Murray injury as well. That they couldn't at least lose in the finals last year is a little disappointing though.

Is it though?

Their RS wasn't ahead of the other west teams virtue of record nor SRS.

And the Wolves clearly outplayed them in their 7 game series.

It was disappointing considering the season they had before, but if you take into account what happened during the season, I don't think they underachieved at all.

[falcolombardi]

I agree Nuggets roster better than Timberwolves with KG and in decade where reaching for superteam combos has flopped a lot, the less sexy approach of players who fit him perfectly has its merits, although I'm not sure we would value Murray and Gordon that much on other teams. Jokic had bad luck losing 2 playoff seasons with Murray injury as well. That they couldn't at least lose in the finals last year is a little disappointing though.

Is it though?

Their RS wasn't ahead of the other west teams virtue of record nor SRS.

And the Wolves clearly outplayed them in their 7 game series.

It was disappointing considering the season they had before, but if you take into account what happened during the season, I don't think they underachieved at all.

I think denver being defending champions gave them a certain "aura" compared to wolves, okc or (post trade) dallas, who were all better teams than then in most metrics last year

Hindsight makes it easy to look at their regular season record or point differential and realize they were not on a different tier than wolves, in real time jokic was coming of a easy title run as best player in the league and wolves were a upstart team

Sometimes being more experienced or accomplished doesnt mean much if the other team is a bad matchup or flat out better

[parsnips33]

I think if you lose a series in which you have the best player, it's always going to be seen as something of a disappointment

[falcolombardi]

I think if you lose a series in which you have the best player, it's always going to be seen as something of a disappointment

I dont think anyone reasonable feels 2018 cavs losing was a dissapointment

Ifs when the teams seem evenly matched that having the best player on the court is expected to push the series his way

[parsnips33]

I think if you lose a series in which you have the best player, it's always going to be seen as something of a disappointment

I dont think anyone reasonable feels 2018 cavs losing was a dissapointment

Ifs when the teams seem evenly matched that having the best player on the court is expected to push the series his way

Ok fair counterpoint. I think that one's a pretty exceptional case though

[jalengreen]

Two years and likely 0 Giannis/Dame playoff series. Man, bummer.

[jalengreen]

Two years and likely 0 Giannis/Dame playoff series. Man, bummer.

NBA Cup though #HalfOfARing

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic had bad luck losing 2 playoff seasons with Murray injury as well.

*3* playoff seasons with a Murray injury. Murray was absolutely hobbled by injuries in last years playoffs

[sp6r=underrated]

AD back tonight or tomorrow. This seems ill-advised. Hopefully he's actually fully healthy. Not like take 1 where Dallas got one half out of him.

But what is the thinking here? We really want to make the play-in where we probably won't get out with the upside getting run by OKC in 4 games?

This season is lost. Dallas needs to accept that and not risk AD(or Lively) in futility.

I'm guessing AD himself is the one driving this push to return.

Or it could be ownership. Hardcore fans like all of us here tend to neglect the business side of it. The Dallas owner seems to be pretty naive about basketball based on all the reporting and decided to delegate to the basketball expert.

This worked great for Miami when they did it with Riley in 96. But I'm sure ownership, even if they don't know basketball, understands how pissed Dallas fans are and how many fans they are losing.

They may want to get him on the court out of hopes it can keep more of the casuals engaged with the team.

That is why I am certain Davis isn't traded until July 2026 at the earliest.

[sp6r=underrated]

For a guy on Jokic's level, he's had a very bad (maybe even historically bad) supporting cast mostly.
But KG's Minnesota was not simply historically bad. It's likely the worst of all time.

KG is easily the biggest management fumble of all-time. There isn't anything close to it.

Denver is dropping the ball with Jokic. It is pathetic that Jamal Murray is the best they have done in year 7. But it is still a lot better than KG in Minnesota.

[Dr Positivity]

I agree Nuggets roster better than Timberwolves with KG and in decade where reaching for superteam combos has flopped a lot, the less sexy approach of players who fit him perfectly has its merits, although I'm not sure we would value Murray and Gordon that much on other teams. Jokic had bad luck losing 2 playoff seasons with Murray injury as well. That they couldn't at least lose in the finals last year is a little disappointing though.

Is it though?

Their RS wasn't ahead of the other west teams virtue of record nor SRS.

And the Wolves clearly outplayed them in their 7 game series.

It was disappointing considering the season they had before, but if you take into account what happened during the season, I don't think they underachieved at all.

I don't think having to beat Minnesota and Dallas is that bad.

[jalengreen]

The west felt full of disappointed teams last year. MIN > DEN, DAL > OKC, and DAL > MIN were all series where the favorite lost (and in winnable fashion). Being disappointed in OKC/DEN seems like a no brainer to me, and even MIN with the WCF appearance had to be infuriating for fans. Game 2 where they lost by 1 on the Luka game winner after Ant and KAT combined for 9/33 from the field would haunt me lol. First three games of that series were all close and all went Dallas' way.

I don't think a DEN loss to OKC this year would be disappointing, but to anybody else, yeah probably.

[sp6r=underrated]

Dallas is the most disappointing team no matter what happens in the playoffs. The malaise around that franchise will last a long-time unless Luka completely implodes.

[therealbig3]

I think what was disappointing last year about Denver was also that Jokic himself did not play that well. I know his counting stats look amazing, they always do, but a lot of that was garbage time, and his actual overall impact really seemed diminished because of Minnesota's defense. There was definitely some people that took the Jokic criticism overboard (like not having him top 5 in POY voting), but the actual breakdown and criticisms of him were fair imo.

I think people take it to mean that we're saying he's putting up empty stats when we say that the box score numbers are always going to be impressive but not necessarily indicative of his impact, but only in the sense that I don't think he's far and away the GOAT, which the counting stats would suggest. I still think he's a dominant, all-time level player, with a peak that very few players have ever matched. I do think you can still take LeBron and Jordan over him, as well as two way bigs like Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Garnett, Hakeem, and Wilt, as far as peak is concerned. I wouldn't take Shaq because of legitimate concerns about his defense.

[therealbig3]

I think Denver's supporting cast is underrated. Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon aren't sexy names, but we can't deny the massive impact they've had in the playoffs and the roles they've played in Denver's successes. Do the Nuggets beat the Lakers in ANY of their matchups without Jamal Murray? Maybe the last time they played each other, because he was bad overall, but he also hit a game winner to win one of those games IIRC.

I think Denver doesn't necessarily dominate the RS because they don't have consistently good players other than Jokic, that's true. But come playoff time? IDK, the supporting cast is pretty proven and usually comes through in a big way.

[TheGOATRises007]

Murray wasn't good last year in the playoffs though.

Swap him and Kyrie, I'm pretty sure the Nuggets knock out the Wolves.

[Peregrine01]

I think what was disappointing last year about Denver was also that Jokic himself did not play that well. I know his counting stats look amazing, they always do, but a lot of that was garbage time, and his actual overall impact really seemed diminished because of Minnesota's defense. There was definitely some people that took the Jokic criticism overboard (like not having him top 5 in POY voting), but the actual breakdown and criticisms of him were fair imo.

I think people take it to mean that we're saying he's putting up empty stats when we say that the box score numbers are always going to be impressive but not necessarily indicative of his impact, but only in the sense that I don't think he's far and away the GOAT, which the counting stats would suggest. I still think he's a dominant, all-time level player, with a peak that very few players have ever matched. I do think you can still take LeBron and Jordan over him, as well as two way bigs like Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Garnett, Hakeem, and Wilt, as far as peak is concerned. I wouldn't take Shaq because of legitimate concerns about his defense.

A big issue in last years’ series was Murray’s inability to shake Minny’s ball pressure which greatly diminished the two-man game between him and Jokic and put the Nuggets deep in the clock again and again. Jokic’s jumper suddenly going broken also hurt.