bondom34 wrote:Because its the best of a bunch of flawed stats. Its not perfect, but I can tell by looking at it that its better than the other options.
This is human and I get what you're saying. But one has to be cautious to not fall into confirmation bias.
bondom34 wrote:I don't consider box score to be context plus/minus lacks, I consider actual context to be context that's missing. For example, what role a guy plays (a guy who's a 3rd option or who isn't a high usage player or going against bench players vs. a primary/secondary option starter, think a guy like Korver vs. a guy like Jimmy Butler).
Well, what hinders you to consider actual context when looking at +/- data? By the way regression data takes quality of opponents (and teammates) into account by default, that's the point of adjustment in the first place. And a 5th option shouldn't look as impactful on offense as well by the metric. The problem isn't the approach (because it's the only way to adequately measure impact approach-wise), it's the potential noise.
bondom34 wrote: I'd prefer a mix of RPM and player tracking (the Nylon Calc stats are great for this too w/ rim protection), as they can at least give a better idea to me of what effect someone has on a team's defense.
I agree that player tracking has to be a large part of basketball-analysis in the near future (or let's say from last year on) and this is especially true for the evaluation of defense. Nevertheless, when it comes to earlier years we have to work with what we've got as unsatisfactory as it might be at times.
To the first, I'm not, but again looking at box score metrics and seeing past guys like Boozer and Z Bo in the top of the league should throw up flags.
To the second, agree to an extent, but you're still looking at issues with lineups and guys being used together as well as role. I've seen too many people here toss RAPM out there as the be all end all without using much context at all. I take more into it if someone is thrown into a bad spot, isn't playing a role they normally would, or is in a worse fit vs. a guy in a perfect situation for his skill. I don't really want to get into exact examples here because it always ends up in a longwinded debate, and that's likely for another place, but the Korver example is a great one. He's got great plus/minus stats, but no, he's not a top 20 player.
To the third, yeah, kinda stuck with the info we have, but sometimes its almost better to use nothing if you know nothing than to just use bad information for the sake of having an opinion.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
Is it just me or am I seeing some people with a weird "Free Itunes Gift Card" avi? Forum mod Penbeast also has that. Not sure if it's a virus on the forum or my computer.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
PaulieWal wrote:Is it just me or am I seeing some people with a weird "Free Itunes Gift Card" avi? Forum mod Penbeast also has that. Not sure if it's a virus on the forum or my computer.
Haven't noticed it yet but I just looked at penbeast's profile and see the same avi you probably see. So it shouldn't be a virus on your computer unless it's a crazy coincidence and we have it both.
PaulieWal wrote:Is it just me or am I seeing some people with a weird "Free Itunes Gift Card" avi? Forum mod Penbeast also has that. Not sure if it's a virus on the forum or my computer.
Haven't noticed it yet but I just looked at penbeast's profile and see the same avi you probably see. So it shouldn't be a virus on your computer unless it's a crazy coincidence and we have it both.
Good to know it's not a virus on my computer and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
PaulieWal wrote:Is it just me or am I seeing some people with a weird "Free Itunes Gift Card" avi? Forum mod Penbeast also has that. Not sure if it's a virus on the forum or my computer.
Haven't noticed it yet but I just looked at penbeast's profile and see the same avi you probably see. So it shouldn't be a virus on your computer unless it's a crazy coincidence and we have it both.
Good to know it's not a virus on my computer and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
Just a wild guess, but I think what happened is that the site that was hosting pen's avatar either was shut down or took it down. I remember for awhile he had another image saying something like 'this image has been removed' or something.
Maybe the site that used to host his (and other) avatar was bought out by a company that put up those spam images in the place of everything that was linked.
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
The-Power wrote:Haven't noticed it yet but I just looked at penbeast's profile and see the same avi you probably see. So it shouldn't be a virus on your computer unless it's a crazy coincidence and we have it both.
Good to know it's not a virus on my computer and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
Just a wild guess, but I think what happened is that the site that was hosting pen's avatar either was shut down or took it down. I remember for awhile he had another image saying something like 'this image has been removed' or something.
Maybe the site that used to host his (and other) avatar was bought out by a company that put up those spam images in the place of everything that was linked.
Ahhh, that makes way too much sense. Yeah, makes sense how some posters have that avi as that company must have been shut down and it just replaced it with some spam. I should have thought of that but the "Free Gift Cards" made me think it was some sort of virus. Usually when sites get shut down or the link doesn't work it just says "Image not available" or "removed" as you said.
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
PaulieWal wrote: Good to know it's not a virus on my computer and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
Just a wild guess, but I think what happened is that the site that was hosting pen's avatar either was shut down or took it down. I remember for awhile he had another image saying something like 'this image has been removed' or something.
Maybe the site that used to host his (and other) avatar was bought out by a company that put up those spam images in the place of everything that was linked.
Ahhh, that makes way too much sense. Yeah, makes sense how some posters have that avi as that company must have been shut down and it just replaced it with some spam. I should have thought of that but the "Free Gift Cards" made me think it was some sort of virus. Usually when sites get shut down or the link doesn't work it just says "Image not available" or "removed" as you said.
Looks like it's from imageshack which is still up and running, so I was wrong about that. Guessing the image was just old and was removed and they took advantage of free (spam) advertising:
PaulieWal wrote:Is it just me or am I seeing some people with a weird "Free Itunes Gift Card" avi? Forum mod Penbeast also has that. Not sure if it's a virus on the forum or my computer.
Haven't noticed it yet but I just looked at penbeast's profile and see the same avi you probably see. So it shouldn't be a virus on your computer unless it's a crazy coincidence and we have it both.
Good to know it's not a virus on my computer and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
I think it's instead of the usual "picture cant be opened "other photo hosting sites are renting out to ads or other sites.
Edit: Beaten
I came here to do two things: get lost and slice **** up & I'm all out of directions.
Butler removing rearview mirror in his car as a symbol to never look back
Peja Stojakovic wrote:Jimmy butler, with no regard for human life
I hadn't noticed that my avi had disappeared, thanks. I'll find something to replace it sooner or later; had that one since I started here.
On other news, had our first look at the basketball players in the school and well . . . although we won our division the last two years, the coach and every player from last year's varsity is gone and what we have right now will have a tough time breaking .500 in JV playing the JV schedule we played last year. Still have two players registered that transferred here and are trying to get their transcripts and they will be our best players if they play as well as they did last year but . . . looks rough right now.
One good 3 point shooter, one athletic but undisciplined 2 guard type, one glue guy type . . . that's about all the guys who look like they have varsity talent. With the two incoming players we can throw something out there as starters but bench will be thin and we will have to see if they can work together. But that's the fun of small school coaching. I'll post irregular updates, next one probably in October when we start practice.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
penbeast0 wrote:I hadn't noticed that my avi had disappeared, thanks. I'll find something to replace it sooner or later; had that one since I started here.
On other news, had our first look at the basketball players in the school and well . . . although we won our division the last two years, the coach and every player from last year's varsity is gone and what we have right now will have a tough time breaking .500 in JV playing the JV schedule we played last year. Still have two players registered that transferred here and are trying to get their transcripts and they will be our best players if they play as well as they did last year but . . . looks rough right now.
One good 3 point shooter, one athletic but undisciplined 2 guard type, one glue guy type . . . that's about all the guys who look like they have varsity talent. With the two incoming players we can throw something out there as starters but bench will be thin and we will have to see if they can work together. But that's the fun of small school coaching. I'll post irregular updates, next one probably in October when we start practice.
Do they bring up players from JV to Varsity in the middle of the season or is it you stay in what you end up in?
I came here to do two things: get lost and slice **** up & I'm all out of directions.
Butler removing rearview mirror in his car as a symbol to never look back
Peja Stojakovic wrote:Jimmy butler, with no regard for human life
Last two years, Coach didn't . . . in fact almost half his players were guys from his AAU team who were homeschooled or went to religious schools with no varsity basketball program (though his two stars were both students I'd had since middle school). But this year we plan to . . . and it's like JV was last year, we are likely to have no choice since we lost several players to academic concerns or behavioral issues during the year and had 1 or 2 players from the middle school team play in almost half our games. Since Coach and I chose to work as a team running both teams rather than he runs Varsity and I run JV, it should be easier to do that.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
Owners set it up so they can get paid during a lockout they started. Regardless of whether there is a lockout in 2017 the fact they negotiated for it shows that the owners are gunning for another lockout in which they can further reduce the players share of revenue. They got it down from 57% to 50% last time so why not try it again.
I can't wait till European basketball leagues reach a level of popularity so that players can directly take on this scumbag collective group of parasitic owners who institute policies that actually lower the talent level in American basketball.
I'd left off early in "When the Game Was Ours" awhile back, had some free time the other day, so finished it off.
Cool selection on Magic:
Spoiler:
It was one of the many new moves the Lakers made in 1986–87. Just as Bird felt cheated in '83 when his team didn't make it to the Finals, Magic was still rankled by his team's underwhelming '86 postseason performance. A month into a long summer of frustrated retrospection, Riley invited him to lunch.
"We've got to change things, Earvin," Riley said. "This has to be your team now."
Magic was mildly confused. He felt as though it had been his team for the last four or five years.
"You can't just be the guy that sets everyone else up anymore. I need you to score," Riley clarified.
"Have you talked to Kareem about this?" Magic asked.
"I talked to Kareem already," Riley answered. "He understands. Now you have to understand. When you come back, you have to have a different mindset."
Magic, who honestly believed he could put up the same numbers as Larry Bird, had spent years deferring to Abdul-Jabbar on the offensive end. Through the first seven seasons of his career, he averaged 12 shots a game. Now Riley was talking about him taking 15 to 20 a night. It would require more pick-and-rolls as well as setting Johnson up in the post so he could exploit the smaller guards.
Johnson went back to Lansing and asked his college coach, Heathcote, to walk him through the nuances of the post-up game. For hours, Heathcote fed his former Michigan State star passes on the block, monitoring his footwork on the drop step and the angle of his shoulder when he turned to take the hook.
Magic's summer league workout partners showed up expecting the usual no-look lobs above the rim, the half-court bounce passes up the middle, and the drive-and-kick feeds to the perimeter. Instead, Magic was driving and finishing. He was posting up forwards, guards, anyone he could pin down on the block. He was pulling up for jump shots on the break instead of dishing off to the trailer. When he arrived at training camp, he lingered after practice, studying Abdul-Jabbar's sweeping hook.
"What makes it work?" Magic asked. "Is it the position of the ball? The release? The footwork?"
Kareem demonstrated the proper way to turn the body, how to keep the sweeping motion far enough from the opponent so it could not be blocked. He replicated the flick of the wrist, which enabled the ball to arc properly.
Seems like a big change from 86->87 was not only being more assertive, but he'd worked a good deal on his post game the summer before.
Another brief quote (the book is formatted such that it sets the scene with a shorter flashback at the beginning of each chapter, before expounding on a certain season or period in the lives of Magic/Bird):
Spoiler:
The choice of weapon was no fluke. Magic had spent the previous summer at Michigan State working on his post moves with Jud Heathcote, honing the hook shot so he would be comfortable launching it with either hand.
Bird was surprised that Magic chose to keep the ball and equally stunned at how effortlessly he executed a shot that takes years to master. As he watched his rival expertly flip his wrist, Bird experienced the overwhelming and sinking feeling of helplessness.
On Bird and the back thing:
Spoiler:
Bird wasn't lounging on the beach in the summer of 1985. He was shoveling gravel for drainage to protect the new basketball court he had just installed. Although he had the financial means (times ten) to hire someone to do the work, the Celtics star prided himself on doing his own chores.
He knew it had been a mistake, however, the minute he tried to get out of bed the following morning. He had done something to his back and was alarmed by his lack of mobility. He walked around, tried to shake the stiffness, but the pain was unbearable. He lay down and tried to rest, but the sharp jolts shooting down his leg were persistent. Something was wrong—seriously wrong. In subsequent years, Bird would learn that his back troubles were the result of a congenital condition. The canal in which the nerves led to his spinal cord was too narrow, which caused all that unbearable pain. It was truly remarkable, his surgeon told him after watching Bird play basketball, that he managed for as long as he did.
The fact that it was congenital is pretty interesting to me. Something for me to consider when looking at his longevity, since it was bound to flare up regardless it seems.
Bird added his stepback the summer after Fitch was fired (before his MVP threepeat):
Spoiler:
Bird retreated to his newly constructed home in West Baden, Indiana, complete with its full-length outdoor court. He added a stepback jumper to his arsenal, refining it by shooting 800 of them a day. Buckner came to visit Bird that summer and agreed to participate in his morning workout. They awoke at 7 A.M., put on their track shoes, and ran five miles—uphill. Buckner was amazed by the steep incline of Bird's regular route and was walking by the halfway mark. Bird was not a fast runner, but he had long strides and the determined look of an athlete scorned. He and Buckner did not discuss the Bucks' sweep, but Bird's dissatisfaction was implied in the intensity of his workouts.
After his uphill run, Bird hopped on his bicycle and pedaled 20 miles around the county. Then, with the burning sun at its peak, he spent an additional hour and a half shooting 500 jumpers and 500 free throws.
"I was getting ready for a whole lot of years of us and the Lakers," Bird said. "We were young and they were young. They had Kareem. They had Magic. They were making moves. I wanted to make sure we kept up."
Auerbach felt the same way. Still in search of a physical player to offset the brilliance of Magic, he acquired Dennis Johnson on June 27, 1983, from the Phoenix Suns. The price was Robey, Bird's sidekick and drinking companion. Bird's teammates insisted in subsequent years it was no accident that number 33 won his first MVP trophy after his buddy Robey had moved on.
On coaching:
Spoiler:
In May 1997, Pacers president Donnie Walsh contacted Bird about Indiana's coaching vacancy, in part because he was Larry Legend from Indiana and would generate some buzz for the team. Yet Walsh also wanted some assurances that Bird had given some thought to his coaching style.
"So what would you do with this team?" Walsh asked Bird.
He was expecting a general answer. Instead, Bird took Walsh from his first practice all the way through the NBA Finals, something Walsh had never seen before and does not expect to see again. Bird's detailed response included specific examples of how he'd run practice, what time the plane would leave, what offense he'd use, how he'd deal with the media, and a breakdown of each player outlined by their strengths and weaknesses.
"Oh, and one more thing," Bird said. "I'm only coaching three years. No matter what happens. After three years, your players tune you out."
Some of his ideas were his own. Others he adopted from conversations with Portland assistant coach Rick Carlisle, who had given him a binder overflowing with coaching techniques before the interview.
After Bird landed the job, he lured Carlisle and fellow Portland assistant coach Dick Harter to Indianapolis. In their first meeting, Bird told them, "I'm going to pump these guys up and give them so much confidence that by my third year here we'll make the Finals."
He gave Harter the responsibility of running the defense and put Carlisle in charge of the offense, including diagramming the plays in the huddle. It was a highly unusual move to give so much responsibility to an assistant, but Bird didn't care. He was learning. Carlisle was better than he was at drawing up the plays.
The three years portion is interesting. Bird mentions that the rest of the team being fed up with Fitch led to disappointment in 83. K.C. Jones lasted five years (nothing in the book mentions the situation unless I missed it, but it looks like he left on good terms).
Quote on the demise of the Celtics dynasty:
Spoiler:
The 1987 playoffs represented the end of an era for the Boston Celtics. Walton's career was all but over. He spent the following summer in mourning, locking himself in his Cambridge home and listening to his Grateful Dead records over and over again. Bird went to visit a couple of times, but after a while he stopped. It was too depressing.
"The fun-loving guy I knew was gone," Larry said. "Bill was in such a deep funk, nobody could help him."
McHale underwent surgery to repair the gaping space in his foot and was told by the surgeon that he might suffer long-term effects from his decision to postpone the operation. He played six more seasons, but was never the same player.
Over the next four years, Bird underwent operations on both heels to remove bone spurs, then had major back surgery and played in constant pain for the remainder of his career. He approached each upcoming season as a new day, a new opportunity to coax his team back to the Finals against Magic and the Lakers, yet their West Coast foils appeared to be inching farther and farther away from their grasp.
A quote on Maxwell quitting, and general notes about 83 and 85:
Spoiler:
Riley was correct about Bird—the Boston forward was putting up big numbers and would go on to win a second consecutive Most Valuable Player Award in 1985. Yet Bird wasn't interested in repeating as the league's best player. He was gunning for back-to-back championships, and he grimaced when Maxwell finally showed up to camp with a new contract and gleefully announced, "Career's over, boys. Slam the books. I got my money."
Maxwell was clearly not a candidate for a Career Best Effort. His holdout had left him substandard, both in timing and conditioning. When the Celtics played the struggling Cleveland Cavaliers, Maxwell chortled before the game, "You're on your own, fellas. I don't do JV games. I'm saving myself for the varsity."
"It was supposed to be a joke," said Ainge, "but nobody thought it was that funny."
Bird was not amused. There were so many variables required to be successful in an NBA season, and he was in no mood to jeopardize Boston's chances because one of his teammates didn't feel like playing. One morning in practice, Maxwell put out his leg and said, "Someone jump on my knee and put me out for six weeks."
"Put that son of a bitch right here, I'll snap it in half for you," Bird growled.
"That kind of negativity really bothered me," Bird said. "We were trying to win back to back, something no one had done in over 15 years, and Max is talking about lying down on us."
Ironically, Maxwell suffered a cartilage tear in his knee in February. He tried to play through it, but the flap inside his knee kept grabbing, and the pain jolted him awake at night, leaving him popping pain relievers around the clock. After Boston's loss to the Lakers on February 17, Maxwell underwent arthroscopic surgery. McHale replaced him in the starting lineup and would remain there for the balance of his career.
When Maxwell returned, it was in a new role as a bench player. The veteran was unhappy with his reduced status, but his allies in the locker room were dwindling and his complaints went unheeded.
"Max was out of shape when he came back," Bird said. "He didn't do the rehab the way they asked. I was so pissed at him, because he was so good. He was a helluva player when he felt like it. But all that talk ... it could bring you down.
"He got his money, and he quit. I like Max, but that's the bottom line. What he doesn't understand is, we helped him get that money, just like he helped me get mine. We were all accountable to each other.
"It was just a waste, that's all. We could have won in '83, but we didn't because of all the bull with Bill Fitch. Then we could have won again in '85, but we didn't because of more bull. There are two years, right there, where we were young and together and healthy, and we didn't capitalize on it. Looking back, it just kills you.
"I'm not going to lay all the blame on Max. It was more than just him, but we couldn't afford that kind of stuff, and he just didn't seem to get that." Maxwell
Maxwell never denied he made joking references to his contract. He realized too late, he said, that his constant chatter proved to be a source of friction with Bird.
"We all used to tease and laugh about stuff," Maxwell said. "I think Larry fed into what Red Auerbach was hearing from [Boston Globe reporter] Will McDonough. He was talking to Red every day and saying I wasn't busting my hump.
"And when I did get hurt, Larry didn't believe it. He thought everyone should play through pain the way he did."
Evidently the Maxwell thing carried over into next year before the move was made:
Spoiler:
Once Bird regained his touch, the Boston Celtics were brimming with Career Best Efforts of their own. The Big Three of Bird, McHale, and Parish was in its prime, and D.J. and Ainge had established themselves as reliable fixtures in the backcourt.
Auerbach asked Maxwell to come early to rookie camp to reclaim his place in the team nucleus, but the veteran declined, citing the need to oversee construction of his new home. "Where the hell does he think he got the money for that new home?" Auerbach groused.
"The veterans never went to rookie camp," said Maxwell. "Why all of a sudden was it so important that I be there?"
on-again, off-again talks with the Los Angeles Clippers about center Bill Walton, who was on the back side of his career and looking for a change of scenery. Walton contacted the Lakers first, but West was wary of his medical issues, so Walton placed a call to Red Auerbach, who ran it by Bird.
"Hey, if the guy's healthy, he'll help us," Bird said. "Let's go for it."
After Maxwell's refusal to attend rookie camp, Auerbach decided the former 1981 Finals MVP would be the bait to pry Walton away from the Clippers. When the deal was announced, Maxwell bitterly departed Boston believing Bird had angled to have him shipped out of town.
In later years, Bird would continue to laud Max as "one of the greatest teammates I've ever had," but their relationship had suffered irreparable harm. Bird thought Max quit on him, and in the end Max thought Bird did the same to him.
Walton's arrival connected Bird with a teammate who loved and respected the game as much as he did. The two became instant friends and verbal sparring partners. They played 1-on-1 for hours before and after practice, trash-talking to one another throughout. Their chemistry was electric, their camaraderie genuine. Walton, who had seriously considered quitting, was reborn.
I found some articles from the LA Times on Magic's aborted comeback in 92, might start a thread next week with some hypotheticals regarding it.
EDIT: BTW some other random stuff. Typed up some of the quotes from Zander Hollander's annuals awhile back on MJ and Hakeem, don't think I've posted before. I cut out some of the random notes (he interjects some humor), focussed on stuff about their games (if something was repeated from one year to the next I left it out). Apologies as always for typos.
Jordan
Spoiler:
1985
“Jordan will hit from the perimeter and will penetrate” “A great shooter who hit 55.1 percent of his field-goal attempts in senior year at North Carolina” “Will hit the three-point shot” (Bulls needed post play)
1986
“The Bulls feel that Jordan can be the primary ball-handler, so they traded away Ennis Whatley and released Wes Matthews. Jordan was their top assist man with 481 last season and he is most effective when he choreographs his own show” “Named NBA Rookie of the Year and hailed as the Dr. J of the ‘80s after showing an assortment of aerial moves that he had kept under wraps at North Carolina”
1987
“Jordan is still the star of this production, but he must control the ball to control the game”
1988
“It’s Jordan’s ball and game. He controls the pace. He is the show” “Enthusiasm carries over to defense and is one of the best on that end of the floor”
1989
“Whatever Michael wants, Michael does is the general rule in Chicago. Jordan was the team’s top assist man (485) as the Bulls again had an assembly-line format at point guard.” “Again, the focal point is Mr. Jordan, last year’s Defensive Player of the Year when he became the first player ever to lead the league in scoring and steals (259). Jordan plays passing lanes better than anyone. And he proved it picking off pass after pass, game after game. He also led the team in blocks with 131. “Words don’t do him justice…Most dynamic offensive weapon in game today…Defensive Player of the Year”
1990
“The problem with the Bulls’ shooting is that Michael Jordan does a bit too much of it.” “Jordan provided a temporary solution by moving to the point late in the year, but he has no desire to remain there.” “Moved to point guard late in the season and started spitting out triple-doubles on a nightly basis”
1991
“Jordan played the point full-time two seasons back and is apt to take over at any given time. And his very presence on the court spreads defenses and makes the Bulls a good playmaking team” “Bought weight equipment to bulk up against beatings he generally takes” “Added three-point shot as effective weapon as he knocked down 92—34 more than the total for his first five seasons” “Excellent defender, plays passing lanes as well as anyone, made All-Defensive team again”
1992
“With Jordan penetrating—or more like with Jordan just existing—double- and triple-teams are mandatory. So someone is left open.”
1994
“In Jordan, who only is the greatest player ever, he Bulls have a one-man offensive package. In recent years, he’s more apt to shoot jumpers than to drive and take a pounding. His jumper is lethal. His drives are lethal. And when he drives, everyone else is lethal.” “In Jordan they have the league’s best defensive guard.”
1996
“You know Michael Jordan’s jump shot will return to normal, but he’s already proven that he can’t elevate as he did before putting away his sneakers and picking up a baseball glove. That means his days as a plus-.500 shooter are likely over.” “This is what Jordan should turn to if he finds that getting off shots against double- and triple-teams is too exhausting. He has the skills and the savvy of a premier playmaker, but his pride often gets in the way of what’s best for the team.” “Lost a little off leap, which sometimes meant passing instead of finishing. IN series against Magic, many of hose passes wound up in the hands of the enemy.”
1997
“The greatest shooting guard ever became, by necessity, one of the most devastating point guards ever last season. Such is the brilliance of Jordan. Put him on the floor, give him a ball, and he will beat you. Position destinations are far too limiting. He possesses every skill.” “With all due respect to Gary Payton, Joran is not only the best defensive player in the league, he is the best the backcourt has ever seen. The team defense, the true heart of this team, has always started with Jordan. He has the hands, the feet, the eyes and the strength to stop anyone.” “A guy who hit .202 (on three-pointers) his first five seasons suddenly became Frank Thomas, knocking them out at will” “Too bad he’ll never be fully recognized for his defensive brilliance.”
1998
“With Michael Jordan taking games in hs own hands, they have the best clutch shooter of his generation in the house.” “Here’s Jordan again. Everything runs through him. He is the prototype for Grant Hill and every other good scorer who is asked to expand his game. Jordan does it naturally.”
Olajuwon
Spoiler:
1985
“Already being compared to Bill Russell as a defensive force” “Runs the floor as well as anyone in the game today” “Awesome shot-blocker and strong inside force” (Rockets needed 15-18 foot jumper)
1986
“Has incredible quickness and outstanding strength”
1987
“In just two seasons, he has blossomed into the best all-around center in NBA…That’s right, he’s ahead of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc., because he can do more of everything” “The game’s best offensive rebounder and a powerful inside force on offense, he has added a turnaround and jump hook to his repertoire” “Fastest big man in the league from end to end”
1988
“He is clearly the best all-around center in the game today” “Has developed an incredible fadeaway jump shot that almost hits the ceiling and he can use it effectively out to about 19 feet”
1989
“Of course, when the playoffs roll around, Olajuwon will again have to carry that load against double- and triple-teams.” “The most feared single force in the game today, bar none…That includes Bird and Magic…Can singlehandedly take control of a game and dominate it” “After Ralph Sampson was traded, defenses were able to tripe-team him” “A bull on the inside and a light touch on the jumper…Can do it all”
1990
“Of course, Akeem Olajuwon is an expert in making even the most difficult shots.” “The single most dominating force in the game. That means he can do more things than Michael Jordan” “Has incredible athletic ability and a dogged willingness to get better…Each year he adds another weapon to his repertoire…The turnaround jumper on the baseline is now deadly and his Dream Shake move to the hoop is unstoppable”
1991
“Too often, a Rocket makes a dubious stab at a steal and then looks over his shoulder, expecting Olajuwon to pick up and cover. That’s fine, except that is the way Akeem likes to play, too. Somehow that produced the NBA’s fifth best defense (by FG percentage) last season. It probably helped that Olajuwon, again the league leader in blocked shots, also was eighth in steals.” “Olajuwon’s one of the league’s most athletic players…Since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, current centers are measured against him”
1994
“Olajuwon is the obvious factor. He has led the NBA in blocked shots three of the last four seasons, helping Houston finish third in the category at 6.6 per game.” “Awesome physical abilities, with some moves made from strength and some from quickness…Will hit the short fadeaway in the lane but has to be covered 15 feet out”
1995
“Hakeem Olajuwon still took more shots than anyone in the NBA (1,694) and finished 10th in percentage, at .528, with an arsenal of jump hooks, fallaways, spin moves and perimeter shots as far as 16 to 18 feet out.” “So does having someone like Olajuwon, who has become so adept at passing out of the double-team from the post, usually to hit an open guard on the perimeter. Imagine how many shots he could have had if he got selfish with even a portion of those 287 assists. But he has become a much better player since being convinced a few years back that making the extra pass would be more important to the team than individual scoring statistics.” “Great agility for his size, with spin moves and fallaways that make him almost impossible to defend one-on-one”
1996
“Once the ball went into him, the options were limitless. Fall away. Spin-move into the lane. Jumper from 16 feet.” “Rockets think his turnaround jumper from the left baseline is the most reliable weapon in the game. ‘I don’t know how you stop that shot,’ coach Rudy Tomjanovich said. ‘It’s an all-pro shot, a Hall of Fame shot.’”
1997
“That has long been a weapon. Just not as long as Olajuwon, who turns 34 in January but shows no sign of slowing down. His signature spin moves inside are still impossible to defend, his fallaways from the high post still graceful and deadly, his medium-range jumpers a very reliable option. Oh, and he runs the court like a 24-year old.” “Having Olajuwon in the paint, waiting for guards to try and penetrate, means they are feared.”
1998
“Olajuwon is still the Rockets’ only 50-percent shooter, and his spinning baseline moves (complete with an extra hop that referees never seem to notice) remain unstoppable.” “The most important passes thrown on this team are by Olajuwon, who foils double-teams and sets up open teammates with his lobs to the paint.” “Still as deadly as ever offensively, with that unblock able baseline turnaround…Defensively, he is merely the NBA’s all-time leader in blocked shots”
EDIT 2: Two more quotes on 2nd 3peat MJ from Phil's book:
Spoiler:
Then one morning in early March, Michael Jordan showed up at my office in the Berto Center. He’d just left spring training and returned home, after refusing the White Sox’s offer to be a replacement player during Major League Baseball’s upcoming lockout season. Michael said he was considering a return to basketball and wondered if he could come to practice the next day and work out with the team. “Well, I think we’ve got a uniform here that might fit you,” I replied.
What followed was the weirdest media circus I’ve ever witnessed. I did everything I could to protect Michael’s privacy, but word soon got out that Superman was in the house. Within days an army of reporters were gathered outside our training facility, waiting to hear when Michael was going to suit up again. After more than a year of being fixated on the O.J. Simpson murder case, America was yearning for good news about a sports superhero. And the mystery surrounding Michael’s comeback gave the story an additional allure. When Michael finally decided to return, his agent sent out what may be the pithiest press release in history. All it said was, “I’m back.”
Michael’s first game— on March 19, against the Pacers in Indianapolis— was a worldwide media event that attracted the largest television audience ever for a regular-season game. “The Beatles and Elvis are back,” quipped Indiana’s coach, Larry Brown, as a phalanx of TV cameras crowded into the locker rooms before the game. And during warm-ups, Corie Blount saw a TV crew taking a shot of Michael’s Nikes and said, “Now they’re interviewing his shoes.”
Michael’s arrival had an enormous impact on the team. Most of the new players were in awe of his basketball skills and competed intensely during practice to show him what they could do. Still, there was a vast gulf between Michael and his teammates that was difficult for him to bridge. To build the deep level of trust that a championship team requires usually takes years of hard work. But this team didn’t have that luxury. Michael didn’t know many of the players very well, and there wasn’t enough time left in the season to change that.
At first it didn’t seem to matter. Though Michael had trouble finding his shooting rhythm in that first game in Indiana, he erupted in the next game against Boston and the team began a 13-3 run. If anyone had doubts about Michael’s ability the second time around, he erased them six days later when he scored 55 points against the Knicks in Madison Square Garden— the highest total for any player that year.
After the game, however, Michael came to my office and voiced some reservations. “You’ve got to tell the players they can’t expect me to do what I did in New York every night,” he said. “In our next game, I want them to get up and get going— to play as a team.”
This was a new Michael. In the past he would have reveled in his triumph over the Knicks— and most likely attempted a repeat performance the following day. But he’d returned from his baseball sabbatical with a different perspective on the game. He wasn’t interested in going solo anymore; he longed for the team harmony that had made the Bulls champions.
Spoiler:
The third breakthrough was Michael’s new approach to leadership. During the first run of championships, Michael had led primarily by example, but after the loss to Orlando he realized he needed to do something dramatically different to motivate this team. Simply glaring at his teammates and expecting them to be just like him wasn’t going to cut it anymore.
Michael was at a tipping point. He had been stung by press commentary during the Orlando series contending that he had lost his edge and wasn’t the same Michael Jordan anymore. So he returned to the gym that summer determined to get his body back in basketball shape. He even had a basketball court set up in the studio in L.A. where he was filming Space Jam so he could practice between takes and work on a new fadeaway jumper that would eventually become his trademark shot. By the time he arrived at training camp in October, he had the hard look of vengeance in his eyes.
A week into camp I was scheduled to do a phone conference with the media at a time that conflicted with our morning practice. When my assistant came down to the court to tell me it was time to get on the phone, I instructed the other coaches to postpone the scrimmage and give the players some shooting drills until I returned. The call was only fifteen minutes long, but before I was off the phone our equipment manager, Johnny Ligmanowski, was at my door saying, “You’d better come. M.J. just punched Steve and he’s in the locker room getting ready to leave practice.” Apparently, Kerr and Jordan had gotten into a bit of a scuffle that escalated back and forth until Michael popped Steve in the face and gave him a black eye.
When I got to the locker room, M.J. was about to step into the shower. He said, “I’ve got to go.” And I told him, “You’d better call Steve and get it straight before tomorrow.”
This was a major wake-up call for Michael. He had just gotten into a fight with the smallest guy on the team over nothing. What was going on? “It made me look at myself, and say, ‘you know what? You’re really being an idiot about this whole process,’” Jordan recalls. “I knew I had to be more respectful of my teammates. And I had to be more respectful of what was happening to me in terms of trying to get back into the game. I had to get more internal.”
I encouraged Michael to start working more closely with George Mumford. George understood what Michael was going through because he had seen his friend Julius Erving experience similar pressures after he turned into a superstar. It was difficult for Michael to develop close relationships with his teammates because, as George puts it, he was “a prisoner in his own room.” He couldn’t go out with them in public and just hang out, as Scottie often did. Many of the new players were still in awe of him, and that too created a distance that was hard to bridge.
Michael was impressed with the mindfulness training George had been doing with the team because it helped bring the players closer to his level of mental awareness. In George’s view, Michael needed to shift his perspective on leadership. “It’s all about being present and taking responsibility for how you relate to yourself and others,” says George. “And that means being willing to adjust so that you can meet people where they are. Instead of expecting them to be somewhere else and getting angry and trying to will them to that place, you try to meet them where they are and lead them where you want them to go.”
While Michael had been away playing baseball, George and I had made changes in the team’s learning environment to enhance the players’ ability to grow mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. If Michael was going to gel with this team and be its floor leader, he would have to get to know his teammates more intimately and relate to them more compassionately. He would need to understand that each player was different and had something important to offer the team. It was his job, as leader, to figure out how to get the best out of each one of them. As George puts it, Michael had to “take his ability to see things on the basketball court and use that to improve the way he related to others.”
Michael was open to the challenge, because he too had changed during his time away. He was still a fierce competitor, but he had also mellowed in certain ways. He was less judgmental of others and more conscious of his own limitations. Playing minor-league baseball, where he spent long hours passing the time with his teammates, Michael had rediscovered the joy of bonding with other men, and more than anything he wanted to have that experience again with the Bulls.
Working with Mumford, Michael adopted a new way of leading based on what worked best with each player. With some players, he decided, he would get physical, either by demonstrating what needed to be done with his body or, in Scottie’s case, simply by being present. “Scottie was one of those guys for whom I had to be there every single day,” says Michael. “If I took a day off, he would take a day off. But if I was there every single day, he would follow.” With other players— Dennis in particular— Michael would go emotional. “You couldn’t yell at Dennis,” he says. “You had to find a way to get into his world for a few quick seconds so that he could understand what you were saying.” With still others Michael would communicate primarily on a verbal level. Example: Scott Burrell, a forward on the 1997– 98 Bulls. “I could yell at him and he would get it,” says Michael, “but it didn’t hurt his confidence at all.”
One person he didn’t have to worry about was Kerr. The fight had forged a strong bond between the two players. “From that day forward Michael looked at me differently,” Steve says. “He never picked on me again. He didn’t trash talk with me anymore. And he started trusting me on the court too.” Adds Michael, “I have the most respect for Steve because, one, he was thrown into a situation where he really had no chance of winning. And, two, he stood up. When I started fouling him, he came back at me. Which got me angry. But that’s where the mutual respect comes from.”
From Michael’s perspective, the second run of championships was harder than the first because of the personalities involved. Most of the players on the first championship championship teams had been together for several years and, together, had fought many battles. As M.J. says, “We’d go up the hill and get knocked down, knocked down, and knocked down, until we climbed over it as a group.” But during the second run, most of the players didn’t know one another very well, yet everybody expected the team to win right out of the gate. “I think we needed Phil more for the second run than the first,” says Michael now. “In the first run, the egos hadn’t set in yet. But in the second run, we had a lot of different personalities to mesh together and the egos were really strong. And Phil had to bring us together as a brotherhood.”
Now that's the difference between first and last place.
sp6r=underrated wrote:Owners set it up so they can get paid during a lockout they started. Regardless of whether there is a lockout in 2017 the fact they negotiated for it shows that the owners are gunning for another lockout in which they can further reduce the players share of revenue. They got it down from 57% to 50% last time so why not try it again.
I can't wait till European basketball leagues reach a level of popularity so that players can directly take on this scumbag collective group of parasitic owners who institute policies that actually lower the talent level in American basketball.
Man these owners are sneaky.
In the event of a lockout/strike, when these owners are getting paid....upon the resumption of the season does that money go towards the BRI? I mean to ask that ultimately will they have to give the player the designated cut of that TV revenue or do they simply pocked that money as pocket change while there are no games being played?
JordansBulls wrote:The Warriors are basically a good college team until they meet a team with bigs in the NBA.
fpliii wrote:I'd left off early in "When the Game Was Ours" awhile back, had some free time the other day, so finished it off.
Cool selection on Magic:
Spoiler:
It was one of the many new moves the Lakers made in 1986–87. Just as Bird felt cheated in '83 when his team didn't make it to the Finals, Magic was still rankled by his team's underwhelming '86 postseason performance. A month into a long summer of frustrated retrospection, Riley invited him to lunch.
"We've got to change things, Earvin," Riley said. "This has to be your team now."
Magic was mildly confused. He felt as though it had been his team for the last four or five years.
"You can't just be the guy that sets everyone else up anymore. I need you to score," Riley clarified.
"Have you talked to Kareem about this?" Magic asked.
"I talked to Kareem already," Riley answered. "He understands. Now you have to understand. When you come back, you have to have a different mindset."
Magic, who honestly believed he could put up the same numbers as Larry Bird, had spent years deferring to Abdul-Jabbar on the offensive end. Through the first seven seasons of his career, he averaged 12 shots a game. Now Riley was talking about him taking 15 to 20 a night. It would require more pick-and-rolls as well as setting Johnson up in the post so he could exploit the smaller guards.
Johnson went back to Lansing and asked his college coach, Heathcote, to walk him through the nuances of the post-up game. For hours, Heathcote fed his former Michigan State star passes on the block, monitoring his footwork on the drop step and the angle of his shoulder when he turned to take the hook.
Magic's summer league workout partners showed up expecting the usual no-look lobs above the rim, the half-court bounce passes up the middle, and the drive-and-kick feeds to the perimeter. Instead, Magic was driving and finishing. He was posting up forwards, guards, anyone he could pin down on the block. He was pulling up for jump shots on the break instead of dishing off to the trailer. When he arrived at training camp, he lingered after practice, studying Abdul-Jabbar's sweeping hook.
"What makes it work?" Magic asked. "Is it the position of the ball? The release? The footwork?"
Kareem demonstrated the proper way to turn the body, how to keep the sweeping motion far enough from the opponent so it could not be blocked. He replicated the flick of the wrist, which enabled the ball to arc properly.
Seems like a big change from 86->87 was not only being more assertive, but he'd worked a good deal on his post game the summer before.
Another brief quote (the book is formatted such that it sets the scene with a shorter flashback at the beginning of each chapter, before expounding on a certain season or period in the lives of Magic/Bird):
Spoiler:
The choice of weapon was no fluke. Magic had spent the previous summer at Michigan State working on his post moves with Jud Heathcote, honing the hook shot so he would be comfortable launching it with either hand.
Bird was surprised that Magic chose to keep the ball and equally stunned at how effortlessly he executed a shot that takes years to master. As he watched his rival expertly flip his wrist, Bird experienced the overwhelming and sinking feeling of helplessness.
On Bird and the back thing:
Spoiler:
Bird wasn't lounging on the beach in the summer of 1985. He was shoveling gravel for drainage to protect the new basketball court he had just installed. Although he had the financial means (times ten) to hire someone to do the work, the Celtics star prided himself on doing his own chores.
He knew it had been a mistake, however, the minute he tried to get out of bed the following morning. He had done something to his back and was alarmed by his lack of mobility. He walked around, tried to shake the stiffness, but the pain was unbearable. He lay down and tried to rest, but the sharp jolts shooting down his leg were persistent. Something was wrong—seriously wrong. In subsequent years, Bird would learn that his back troubles were the result of a congenital condition. The canal in which the nerves led to his spinal cord was too narrow, which caused all that unbearable pain. It was truly remarkable, his surgeon told him after watching Bird play basketball, that he managed for as long as he did.
The fact that it was congenital is pretty interesting to me. Something for me to consider when looking at his longevity, since it was bound to flare up regardless it seems.
Bird added his stepback the summer after Fitch was fired (before his MVP threepeat):
Spoiler:
Bird retreated to his newly constructed home in West Baden, Indiana, complete with its full-length outdoor court. He added a stepback jumper to his arsenal, refining it by shooting 800 of them a day. Buckner came to visit Bird that summer and agreed to participate in his morning workout. They awoke at 7 A.M., put on their track shoes, and ran five miles—uphill. Buckner was amazed by the steep incline of Bird's regular route and was walking by the halfway mark. Bird was not a fast runner, but he had long strides and the determined look of an athlete scorned. He and Buckner did not discuss the Bucks' sweep, but Bird's dissatisfaction was implied in the intensity of his workouts.
After his uphill run, Bird hopped on his bicycle and pedaled 20 miles around the county. Then, with the burning sun at its peak, he spent an additional hour and a half shooting 500 jumpers and 500 free throws.
"I was getting ready for a whole lot of years of us and the Lakers," Bird said. "We were young and they were young. They had Kareem. They had Magic. They were making moves. I wanted to make sure we kept up."
Auerbach felt the same way. Still in search of a physical player to offset the brilliance of Magic, he acquired Dennis Johnson on June 27, 1983, from the Phoenix Suns. The price was Robey, Bird's sidekick and drinking companion. Bird's teammates insisted in subsequent years it was no accident that number 33 won his first MVP trophy after his buddy Robey had moved on.
On coaching:
Spoiler:
In May 1997, Pacers president Donnie Walsh contacted Bird about Indiana's coaching vacancy, in part because he was Larry Legend from Indiana and would generate some buzz for the team. Yet Walsh also wanted some assurances that Bird had given some thought to his coaching style.
"So what would you do with this team?" Walsh asked Bird.
He was expecting a general answer. Instead, Bird took Walsh from his first practice all the way through the NBA Finals, something Walsh had never seen before and does not expect to see again. Bird's detailed response included specific examples of how he'd run practice, what time the plane would leave, what offense he'd use, how he'd deal with the media, and a breakdown of each player outlined by their strengths and weaknesses.
"Oh, and one more thing," Bird said. "I'm only coaching three years. No matter what happens. After three years, your players tune you out."
Some of his ideas were his own. Others he adopted from conversations with Portland assistant coach Rick Carlisle, who had given him a binder overflowing with coaching techniques before the interview.
After Bird landed the job, he lured Carlisle and fellow Portland assistant coach Dick Harter to Indianapolis. In their first meeting, Bird told them, "I'm going to pump these guys up and give them so much confidence that by my third year here we'll make the Finals."
He gave Harter the responsibility of running the defense and put Carlisle in charge of the offense, including diagramming the plays in the huddle. It was a highly unusual move to give so much responsibility to an assistant, but Bird didn't care. He was learning. Carlisle was better than he was at drawing up the plays.
The three years portion is interesting. Bird mentions that the rest of the team being fed up with Fitch led to disappointment in 83. K.C. Jones lasted five years (nothing in the book mentions the situation unless I missed it, but it looks like he left on good terms).
Quote on the demise of the Celtics dynasty:
Spoiler:
The 1987 playoffs represented the end of an era for the Boston Celtics. Walton's career was all but over. He spent the following summer in mourning, locking himself in his Cambridge home and listening to his Grateful Dead records over and over again. Bird went to visit a couple of times, but after a while he stopped. It was too depressing.
"The fun-loving guy I knew was gone," Larry said. "Bill was in such a deep funk, nobody could help him."
McHale underwent surgery to repair the gaping space in his foot and was told by the surgeon that he might suffer long-term effects from his decision to postpone the operation. He played six more seasons, but was never the same player.
Over the next four years, Bird underwent operations on both heels to remove bone spurs, then had major back surgery and played in constant pain for the remainder of his career. He approached each upcoming season as a new day, a new opportunity to coax his team back to the Finals against Magic and the Lakers, yet their West Coast foils appeared to be inching farther and farther away from their grasp.
A quote on Maxwell quitting, and general notes about 83 and 85:
Spoiler:
Riley was correct about Bird—the Boston forward was putting up big numbers and would go on to win a second consecutive Most Valuable Player Award in 1985. Yet Bird wasn't interested in repeating as the league's best player. He was gunning for back-to-back championships, and he grimaced when Maxwell finally showed up to camp with a new contract and gleefully announced, "Career's over, boys. Slam the books. I got my money."
Maxwell was clearly not a candidate for a Career Best Effort. His holdout had left him substandard, both in timing and conditioning. When the Celtics played the struggling Cleveland Cavaliers, Maxwell chortled before the game, "You're on your own, fellas. I don't do JV games. I'm saving myself for the varsity."
"It was supposed to be a joke," said Ainge, "but nobody thought it was that funny."
Bird was not amused. There were so many variables required to be successful in an NBA season, and he was in no mood to jeopardize Boston's chances because one of his teammates didn't feel like playing. One morning in practice, Maxwell put out his leg and said, "Someone jump on my knee and put me out for six weeks."
"Put that son of a bitch right here, I'll snap it in half for you," Bird growled.
"That kind of negativity really bothered me," Bird said. "We were trying to win back to back, something no one had done in over 15 years, and Max is talking about lying down on us."
Ironically, Maxwell suffered a cartilage tear in his knee in February. He tried to play through it, but the flap inside his knee kept grabbing, and the pain jolted him awake at night, leaving him popping pain relievers around the clock. After Boston's loss to the Lakers on February 17, Maxwell underwent arthroscopic surgery. McHale replaced him in the starting lineup and would remain there for the balance of his career.
When Maxwell returned, it was in a new role as a bench player. The veteran was unhappy with his reduced status, but his allies in the locker room were dwindling and his complaints went unheeded.
"Max was out of shape when he came back," Bird said. "He didn't do the rehab the way they asked. I was so pissed at him, because he was so good. He was a helluva player when he felt like it. But all that talk ... it could bring you down.
"He got his money, and he quit. I like Max, but that's the bottom line. What he doesn't understand is, we helped him get that money, just like he helped me get mine. We were all accountable to each other.
"It was just a waste, that's all. We could have won in '83, but we didn't because of all the bull with Bill Fitch. Then we could have won again in '85, but we didn't because of more bull. There are two years, right there, where we were young and together and healthy, and we didn't capitalize on it. Looking back, it just kills you.
"I'm not going to lay all the blame on Max. It was more than just him, but we couldn't afford that kind of stuff, and he just didn't seem to get that." Maxwell
Maxwell never denied he made joking references to his contract. He realized too late, he said, that his constant chatter proved to be a source of friction with Bird.
"We all used to tease and laugh about stuff," Maxwell said. "I think Larry fed into what Red Auerbach was hearing from [Boston Globe reporter] Will McDonough. He was talking to Red every day and saying I wasn't busting my hump.
"And when I did get hurt, Larry didn't believe it. He thought everyone should play through pain the way he did."
Evidently the Maxwell thing carried over into next year before the move was made:
Spoiler:
Once Bird regained his touch, the Boston Celtics were brimming with Career Best Efforts of their own. The Big Three of Bird, McHale, and Parish was in its prime, and D.J. and Ainge had established themselves as reliable fixtures in the backcourt.
Auerbach asked Maxwell to come early to rookie camp to reclaim his place in the team nucleus, but the veteran declined, citing the need to oversee construction of his new home. "Where the hell does he think he got the money for that new home?" Auerbach groused.
"The veterans never went to rookie camp," said Maxwell. "Why all of a sudden was it so important that I be there?"
on-again, off-again talks with the Los Angeles Clippers about center Bill Walton, who was on the back side of his career and looking for a change of scenery. Walton contacted the Lakers first, but West was wary of his medical issues, so Walton placed a call to Red Auerbach, who ran it by Bird.
"Hey, if the guy's healthy, he'll help us," Bird said. "Let's go for it."
After Maxwell's refusal to attend rookie camp, Auerbach decided the former 1981 Finals MVP would be the bait to pry Walton away from the Clippers. When the deal was announced, Maxwell bitterly departed Boston believing Bird had angled to have him shipped out of town.
In later years, Bird would continue to laud Max as "one of the greatest teammates I've ever had," but their relationship had suffered irreparable harm. Bird thought Max quit on him, and in the end Max thought Bird did the same to him.
Walton's arrival connected Bird with a teammate who loved and respected the game as much as he did. The two became instant friends and verbal sparring partners. They played 1-on-1 for hours before and after practice, trash-talking to one another throughout. Their chemistry was electric, their camaraderie genuine. Walton, who had seriously considered quitting, was reborn.
I found some articles from the LA Times on Magic's aborted comeback in 92, might start a thread next week with some hypotheticals regarding it.
EDIT: BTW some other random stuff. Typed up some of the quotes from Zander Hollander's annuals awhile back on MJ and Hakeem, don't think I've posted before. I cut out some of the random notes (he interjects some humor), focussed on stuff about their games (if something was repeated from one year to the next I left it out). Apologies as always for typos.
Jordan
Spoiler:
1985
“Jordan will hit from the perimeter and will penetrate” “A great shooter who hit 55.1 percent of his field-goal attempts in senior year at North Carolina” “Will hit the three-point shot” (Bulls needed post play)
1986
“The Bulls feel that Jordan can be the primary ball-handler, so they traded away Ennis Whatley and released Wes Matthews. Jordan was their top assist man with 481 last season and he is most effective when he choreographs his own show” “Named NBA Rookie of the Year and hailed as the Dr. J of the ‘80s after showing an assortment of aerial moves that he had kept under wraps at North Carolina”
1987
“Jordan is still the star of this production, but he must control the ball to control the game”
1988
“It’s Jordan’s ball and game. He controls the pace. He is the show” “Enthusiasm carries over to defense and is one of the best on that end of the floor”
1989
“Whatever Michael wants, Michael does is the general rule in Chicago. Jordan was the team’s top assist man (485) as the Bulls again had an assembly-line format at point guard.” “Again, the focal point is Mr. Jordan, last year’s Defensive Player of the Year when he became the first player ever to lead the league in scoring and steals (259). Jordan plays passing lanes better than anyone. And he proved it picking off pass after pass, game after game. He also led the team in blocks with 131. “Words don’t do him justice…Most dynamic offensive weapon in game today…Defensive Player of the Year”
1990
“The problem with the Bulls’ shooting is that Michael Jordan does a bit too much of it.” “Jordan provided a temporary solution by moving to the point late in the year, but he has no desire to remain there.” “Moved to point guard late in the season and started spitting out triple-doubles on a nightly basis”
1991
“Jordan played the point full-time two seasons back and is apt to take over at any given time. And his very presence on the court spreads defenses and makes the Bulls a good playmaking team” “Bought weight equipment to bulk up against beatings he generally takes” “Added three-point shot as effective weapon as he knocked down 92—34 more than the total for his first five seasons” “Excellent defender, plays passing lanes as well as anyone, made All-Defensive team again”
1992
“With Jordan penetrating—or more like with Jordan just existing—double- and triple-teams are mandatory. So someone is left open.”
1994
“In Jordan, who only is the greatest player ever, he Bulls have a one-man offensive package. In recent years, he’s more apt to shoot jumpers than to drive and take a pounding. His jumper is lethal. His drives are lethal. And when he drives, everyone else is lethal.” “In Jordan they have the league’s best defensive guard.”
1996
“You know Michael Jordan’s jump shot will return to normal, but he’s already proven that he can’t elevate as he did before putting away his sneakers and picking up a baseball glove. That means his days as a plus-.500 shooter are likely over.” “This is what Jordan should turn to if he finds that getting off shots against double- and triple-teams is too exhausting. He has the skills and the savvy of a premier playmaker, but his pride often gets in the way of what’s best for the team.” “Lost a little off leap, which sometimes meant passing instead of finishing. IN series against Magic, many of hose passes wound up in the hands of the enemy.”
1997
“The greatest shooting guard ever became, by necessity, one of the most devastating point guards ever last season. Such is the brilliance of Jordan. Put him on the floor, give him a ball, and he will beat you. Position destinations are far too limiting. He possesses every skill.” “With all due respect to Gary Payton, Joran is not only the best defensive player in the league, he is the best the backcourt has ever seen. The team defense, the true heart of this team, has always started with Jordan. He has the hands, the feet, the eyes and the strength to stop anyone.” “A guy who hit .202 (on three-pointers) his first five seasons suddenly became Frank Thomas, knocking them out at will” “Too bad he’ll never be fully recognized for his defensive brilliance.”
1998
“With Michael Jordan taking games in hs own hands, they have the best clutch shooter of his generation in the house.” “Here’s Jordan again. Everything runs through him. He is the prototype for Grant Hill and every other good scorer who is asked to expand his game. Jordan does it naturally.”
Olajuwon
Spoiler:
1985
“Already being compared to Bill Russell as a defensive force” “Runs the floor as well as anyone in the game today” “Awesome shot-blocker and strong inside force” (Rockets needed 15-18 foot jumper)
1986
“Has incredible quickness and outstanding strength”
1987
“In just two seasons, he has blossomed into the best all-around center in NBA…That’s right, he’s ahead of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc., because he can do more of everything” “The game’s best offensive rebounder and a powerful inside force on offense, he has added a turnaround and jump hook to his repertoire” “Fastest big man in the league from end to end”
1988
“He is clearly the best all-around center in the game today” “Has developed an incredible fadeaway jump shot that almost hits the ceiling and he can use it effectively out to about 19 feet”
1989
“Of course, when the playoffs roll around, Olajuwon will again have to carry that load against double- and triple-teams.” “The most feared single force in the game today, bar none…That includes Bird and Magic…Can singlehandedly take control of a game and dominate it” “After Ralph Sampson was traded, defenses were able to tripe-team him” “A bull on the inside and a light touch on the jumper…Can do it all”
1990
“Of course, Akeem Olajuwon is an expert in making even the most difficult shots.” “The single most dominating force in the game. That means he can do more things than Michael Jordan” “Has incredible athletic ability and a dogged willingness to get better…Each year he adds another weapon to his repertoire…The turnaround jumper on the baseline is now deadly and his Dream Shake move to the hoop is unstoppable”
1991
“Too often, a Rocket makes a dubious stab at a steal and then looks over his shoulder, expecting Olajuwon to pick up and cover. That’s fine, except that is the way Akeem likes to play, too. Somehow that produced the NBA’s fifth best defense (by FG percentage) last season. It probably helped that Olajuwon, again the league leader in blocked shots, also was eighth in steals.” “Olajuwon’s one of the league’s most athletic players…Since Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, current centers are measured against him”
1994
“Olajuwon is the obvious factor. He has led the NBA in blocked shots three of the last four seasons, helping Houston finish third in the category at 6.6 per game.” “Awesome physical abilities, with some moves made from strength and some from quickness…Will hit the short fadeaway in the lane but has to be covered 15 feet out”
1995
“Hakeem Olajuwon still took more shots than anyone in the NBA (1,694) and finished 10th in percentage, at .528, with an arsenal of jump hooks, fallaways, spin moves and perimeter shots as far as 16 to 18 feet out.” “So does having someone like Olajuwon, who has become so adept at passing out of the double-team from the post, usually to hit an open guard on the perimeter. Imagine how many shots he could have had if he got selfish with even a portion of those 287 assists. But he has become a much better player since being convinced a few years back that making the extra pass would be more important to the team than individual scoring statistics.” “Great agility for his size, with spin moves and fallaways that make him almost impossible to defend one-on-one”
1996
“Once the ball went into him, the options were limitless. Fall away. Spin-move into the lane. Jumper from 16 feet.” “Rockets think his turnaround jumper from the left baseline is the most reliable weapon in the game. ‘I don’t know how you stop that shot,’ coach Rudy Tomjanovich said. ‘It’s an all-pro shot, a Hall of Fame shot.’”
1997
“That has long been a weapon. Just not as long as Olajuwon, who turns 34 in January but shows no sign of slowing down. His signature spin moves inside are still impossible to defend, his fallaways from the high post still graceful and deadly, his medium-range jumpers a very reliable option. Oh, and he runs the court like a 24-year old.” “Having Olajuwon in the paint, waiting for guards to try and penetrate, means they are feared.”
1998
“Olajuwon is still the Rockets’ only 50-percent shooter, and his spinning baseline moves (complete with an extra hop that referees never seem to notice) remain unstoppable.” “The most important passes thrown on this team are by Olajuwon, who foils double-teams and sets up open teammates with his lobs to the paint.” “Still as deadly as ever offensively, with that unblock able baseline turnaround…Defensively, he is merely the NBA’s all-time leader in blocked shots”
EDIT 2: Two more quotes on 2nd 3peat MJ from Phil's book:
Spoiler:
Then one morning in early March, Michael Jordan showed up at my office in the Berto Center. He’d just left spring training and returned home, after refusing the White Sox’s offer to be a replacement player during Major League Baseball’s upcoming lockout season. Michael said he was considering a return to basketball and wondered if he could come to practice the next day and work out with the team. “Well, I think we’ve got a uniform here that might fit you,” I replied.
What followed was the weirdest media circus I’ve ever witnessed. I did everything I could to protect Michael’s privacy, but word soon got out that Superman was in the house. Within days an army of reporters were gathered outside our training facility, waiting to hear when Michael was going to suit up again. After more than a year of being fixated on the O.J. Simpson murder case, America was yearning for good news about a sports superhero. And the mystery surrounding Michael’s comeback gave the story an additional allure. When Michael finally decided to return, his agent sent out what may be the pithiest press release in history. All it said was, “I’m back.”
Michael’s first game— on March 19, against the Pacers in Indianapolis— was a worldwide media event that attracted the largest television audience ever for a regular-season game. “The Beatles and Elvis are back,” quipped Indiana’s coach, Larry Brown, as a phalanx of TV cameras crowded into the locker rooms before the game. And during warm-ups, Corie Blount saw a TV crew taking a shot of Michael’s Nikes and said, “Now they’re interviewing his shoes.”
Michael’s arrival had an enormous impact on the team. Most of the new players were in awe of his basketball skills and competed intensely during practice to show him what they could do. Still, there was a vast gulf between Michael and his teammates that was difficult for him to bridge. To build the deep level of trust that a championship team requires usually takes years of hard work. But this team didn’t have that luxury. Michael didn’t know many of the players very well, and there wasn’t enough time left in the season to change that.
At first it didn’t seem to matter. Though Michael had trouble finding his shooting rhythm in that first game in Indiana, he erupted in the next game against Boston and the team began a 13-3 run. If anyone had doubts about Michael’s ability the second time around, he erased them six days later when he scored 55 points against the Knicks in Madison Square Garden— the highest total for any player that year.
After the game, however, Michael came to my office and voiced some reservations. “You’ve got to tell the players they can’t expect me to do what I did in New York every night,” he said. “In our next game, I want them to get up and get going— to play as a team.”
This was a new Michael. In the past he would have reveled in his triumph over the Knicks— and most likely attempted a repeat performance the following day. But he’d returned from his baseball sabbatical with a different perspective on the game. He wasn’t interested in going solo anymore; he longed for the team harmony that had made the Bulls champions.
Spoiler:
The third breakthrough was Michael’s new approach to leadership. During the first run of championships, Michael had led primarily by example, but after the loss to Orlando he realized he needed to do something dramatically different to motivate this team. Simply glaring at his teammates and expecting them to be just like him wasn’t going to cut it anymore.
Michael was at a tipping point. He had been stung by press commentary during the Orlando series contending that he had lost his edge and wasn’t the same Michael Jordan anymore. So he returned to the gym that summer determined to get his body back in basketball shape. He even had a basketball court set up in the studio in L.A. where he was filming Space Jam so he could practice between takes and work on a new fadeaway jumper that would eventually become his trademark shot. By the time he arrived at training camp in October, he had the hard look of vengeance in his eyes.
A week into camp I was scheduled to do a phone conference with the media at a time that conflicted with our morning practice. When my assistant came down to the court to tell me it was time to get on the phone, I instructed the other coaches to postpone the scrimmage and give the players some shooting drills until I returned. The call was only fifteen minutes long, but before I was off the phone our equipment manager, Johnny Ligmanowski, was at my door saying, “You’d better come. M.J. just punched Steve and he’s in the locker room getting ready to leave practice.” Apparently, Kerr and Jordan had gotten into a bit of a scuffle that escalated back and forth until Michael popped Steve in the face and gave him a black eye.
When I got to the locker room, M.J. was about to step into the shower. He said, “I’ve got to go.” And I told him, “You’d better call Steve and get it straight before tomorrow.”
This was a major wake-up call for Michael. He had just gotten into a fight with the smallest guy on the team over nothing. What was going on? “It made me look at myself, and say, ‘you know what? You’re really being an idiot about this whole process,’” Jordan recalls. “I knew I had to be more respectful of my teammates. And I had to be more respectful of what was happening to me in terms of trying to get back into the game. I had to get more internal.”
I encouraged Michael to start working more closely with George Mumford. George understood what Michael was going through because he had seen his friend Julius Erving experience similar pressures after he turned into a superstar. It was difficult for Michael to develop close relationships with his teammates because, as George puts it, he was “a prisoner in his own room.” He couldn’t go out with them in public and just hang out, as Scottie often did. Many of the new players were still in awe of him, and that too created a distance that was hard to bridge.
Michael was impressed with the mindfulness training George had been doing with the team because it helped bring the players closer to his level of mental awareness. In George’s view, Michael needed to shift his perspective on leadership. “It’s all about being present and taking responsibility for how you relate to yourself and others,” says George. “And that means being willing to adjust so that you can meet people where they are. Instead of expecting them to be somewhere else and getting angry and trying to will them to that place, you try to meet them where they are and lead them where you want them to go.”
While Michael had been away playing baseball, George and I had made changes in the team’s learning environment to enhance the players’ ability to grow mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. If Michael was going to gel with this team and be its floor leader, he would have to get to know his teammates more intimately and relate to them more compassionately. He would need to understand that each player was different and had something important to offer the team. It was his job, as leader, to figure out how to get the best out of each one of them. As George puts it, Michael had to “take his ability to see things on the basketball court and use that to improve the way he related to others.”
Michael was open to the challenge, because he too had changed during his time away. He was still a fierce competitor, but he had also mellowed in certain ways. He was less judgmental of others and more conscious of his own limitations. Playing minor-league baseball, where he spent long hours passing the time with his teammates, Michael had rediscovered the joy of bonding with other men, and more than anything he wanted to have that experience again with the Bulls.
Working with Mumford, Michael adopted a new way of leading based on what worked best with each player. With some players, he decided, he would get physical, either by demonstrating what needed to be done with his body or, in Scottie’s case, simply by being present. “Scottie was one of those guys for whom I had to be there every single day,” says Michael. “If I took a day off, he would take a day off. But if I was there every single day, he would follow.” With other players— Dennis in particular— Michael would go emotional. “You couldn’t yell at Dennis,” he says. “You had to find a way to get into his world for a few quick seconds so that he could understand what you were saying.” With still others Michael would communicate primarily on a verbal level. Example: Scott Burrell, a forward on the 1997– 98 Bulls. “I could yell at him and he would get it,” says Michael, “but it didn’t hurt his confidence at all.”
One person he didn’t have to worry about was Kerr. The fight had forged a strong bond between the two players. “From that day forward Michael looked at me differently,” Steve says. “He never picked on me again. He didn’t trash talk with me anymore. And he started trusting me on the court too.” Adds Michael, “I have the most respect for Steve because, one, he was thrown into a situation where he really had no chance of winning. And, two, he stood up. When I started fouling him, he came back at me. Which got me angry. But that’s where the mutual respect comes from.”
From Michael’s perspective, the second run of championships was harder than the first because of the personalities involved. Most of the players on the first championship championship teams had been together for several years and, together, had fought many battles. As M.J. says, “We’d go up the hill and get knocked down, knocked down, and knocked down, until we climbed over it as a group.” But during the second run, most of the players didn’t know one another very well, yet everybody expected the team to win right out of the gate. “I think we needed Phil more for the second run than the first,” says Michael now. “In the first run, the egos hadn’t set in yet. But in the second run, we had a lot of different personalities to mesh together and the egos were really strong. And Phil had to bring us together as a brotherhood.”
Remember checking when the game was ours out of the library. Great book, would recommend.
I came here to do two things: get lost and slice **** up & I'm all out of directions.
Butler removing rearview mirror in his car as a symbol to never look back
Peja Stojakovic wrote:Jimmy butler, with no regard for human life
Just noticed something - how crazy is the fact that the '98 Lakers won 61 RS games with Shaq playing only 60? Also, Van Exel missed 18 games.
Lakers were 46-14 with Shaq in the lineup, and 15-7 without him, so their winning percentage without O'Neal was lower. With Shaq playing 80, and Van Exel missing less games, I guess the '98 Lakers had a chance to challenge the '72 Lakers for the best RS Laker team ever...At least in terms of record, maybe not SRS.
I think Shaq was really better than Jordan and Malone in '98. He also played very well in the postseason, and unlike his teammates, his still brought it against Utah in that playoff sweep, too.
Quotatious wrote:his still brought it against Utah in that playoff sweep, too.
He may have brought it on Offense but his pick and roll defense was horrific.
Utah's Offensive Rating by Series
1st Round Houston: 103.7 2nd Round Spurs: 101.8 WCF Lakers: 116.1. Utah's worse game in this series was better than their average in any other series. Finals Bulls: 96.1
Some of the games are online and people should watch them. I would comfortably take some of the best Jazz teams over the 02 Lakers considering the decline in Shaq's defensive ability.
and it's the forum's problem. I have seen a few posters with that avi. I assume it's some sort of spam infecting a few of the forum accounts unless those posters really want us to know about "FREE iTUNES GIFT CARDS" lol.
