Player of the Year Discussion (Not Voting) Thread 2009-10

[bert stein]

bert, please try to keep up. Sheesh- when Kobe fans attack!

ah, it looks like we have reached the worst stage of online butthurtitude, where the subject abandons any attempt at rebuttal and instead throws out random accusations unrelated to previous discussion. don't worry buddy, the humiliation fades quickly once this thread is unstickied and disappears from the first page.

[Gongxi]

bert, please try to keep up. Sheesh- when Kobe fans attack!

ah, it looks like we have reached the worst stage of online butthurtitude, where the subject abandons any attempt at rebuttal and instead throws out random accusations unrelated to previous discussion. don't worry buddy, the humiliation fades quickly once this thread is unstickied and disappears from the first page.

Umm...you don't know what you're talking about (statistical models!?), and even if you did it would be so far off topic as to not matter. Humiliation? You have an excellent imagination: you realize you havent said anything in this thread, right? My point that one game doesnt trump an entire large sample size and that Kobe didn't play any better in the RS or PS (unless you want to conflate team success with individual success) than Wade or LeBron hasn't been challenged at all by you.

You really just look like a guy having a passive aggressive temper tantrum, brought about by your favorite plsyer not getting the love you think he should. Sorry, bert.

[bert stein]

bert, please try to keep up. Sheesh- when Kobe fans attack!

ah, it looks like we have reached the worst stage of online butthurtitude, where the subject abandons any attempt at rebuttal and instead throws out random accusations unrelated to previous discussion. don't worry buddy, the humiliation fades quickly once this thread is unstickied and disappears from the first page.

Umm...you don't know what you're talking about (statistical models!?), and even if you did it would be so far off topic as to not matter.

i'm not going to claim expertise, but it should be clear by now that i know what i'm talking about far more than you know what you're talking about. statistical models implicitly underly any claims about inference, which is essentially what you (seemingly unknowingly) have been blathering about throughout this thread until your ill-advised foray into "methodology".

Humiliation? You have an excellent imagination: you realize you havent said anything in this thread, right? My point that one game doesnt trump an entire large sample size and that Kobe didn't play any better in the RS or PS (unless you want to conflate team success with individual success) than Wade or LeBron hasn't been challenged at all by you.

although my initial response was to your laughable post implying objectivity should be prized above all else, it is quite appropriate as a response to a discussion about sample selection as well. its not a subtle point, but no biggie other than hurt feelings on your side.

You really just look like a guy having a passive aggressive temper tantrum, brought about by your favorite plsyer not getting the love you think he should. Sorry, bert.

hey look, the guy throwing out random insults is accusing others of being MAD.
oh, and, apology accepted.

[ronnymac2]

Top 3 aside, I'd like to hear more arguments for the No. 4 and No. 5 spots.

I have Durant, Dirk, Howard, Nash, WIlliams and Anthony all for 2 spots.

With Lebron vs. Kobe vs. Wade, and with the two brain surgeons fighting, I'm not sure if there is room for this. But it's been something I've been asking for throughout this thread.

In all honesty, I'm not feeling Durant in the top five. And since I think Melo is comparable, I don't see him there either.

Spots four and five come down to Dirk, Howard, Nash, and Deron. I'm dismissing Duncan because he can't really do what he used to do in the regular season, nor can he dominate in the playoffs. Still an amazing player though.


I've already talked about Dwight earlier in the thread. I stand by what I said. I think Howard deserves a spot.

Deron vs. Dirk vs. Nash is incredibly close. They were 7, 8, and 9 in MVP voting (all three overlooked imo), and all three garnered all-nba second team nods. They impressed in the statistical categories that matter for them. Hell, they all played fantastic basketball in the playoffs.

I'm really tempted to put Nash in the fifth slot simply because his team got to the WCFs. That is the only thing that differentiates the three imo. However, I'm not sure if Nash is better than Deron Williams.

Maybe I should reconsider Dwight's slot.

[RunMCR]

You guys are valuing RS too high. It's easy to put up amazing RS stats because of multiple reasons. Playoffs are different. Kobe had historic series against Utah and Suns, and played great in most games in finals. Not sure who is even close to him.

[ElGee]

I'm curious as to everyone's take on this. Found this from an article from the playoffs post game 5. This is the pivotal quarter from game 5 vs. the Celtics. Would people call this a good quarter? Horrible quarter? Good but only OK for James?

Code: Select all

P1: West sets up Andy open J (good).      *James quick touch and pass
P2: Andy passes it into backcourt         *James no touch
P3: West off curl misses in lane v Sheed  *James no touch
P4: James crazy shot v TA in lane (good)
P5: James contested 3 on catch v TA (miss)
P6: Williams contested 3 (miss)           *James no touch (guarded by PP)
P7: James 20 foot fade over Ray (good)
   -James, starts at 15 on clock at line,
   shut off by Ray at 10, Parker open     (pierce left him to go to elbow)
   -James gets it right back at 9 from Mo,
   drives right they call touch foul on Allen
   -James again at 11 seconds, 28 feet away,
   head down, Pierce comes, scores
P8: Jamison drives and scores on KG      *James no touch
P9: Offensive foul on Shaq posting       *James no touch
P10: Parker misses open 3,
   Jamison follow good                   *James no touch
P11: James stripped by Rondo → layup
P12: Williams pass intercepted by Rondo      
   -James doubled in corner and gave it to Fish
P13: James pass tipped by KG,
  jump ball to C's                       *credited TO to Jamison??
P14: Parker misses contested 3           *James no touch
   -Williams misses crazy 2 over Rondo
   (tried to draw foul), Andy gets board
P15: James drives by Rondo and fouled (2-2)
P16: Andy fouled in lane off Mo double (1-2)   *James started at top and
                                                passed to Fish
P17: Parker 1-2 FT after loose ball foul       *James no touch (couldn't)
P18: James (dubious) fouled on 3 by Ray (3-3)
P19: Parker breakaway foul off jump (0-2)      *James pass to Parker
P20: Jamison putback James missed 28 foot fade 3!
P21: James missed 3 v Ray again, Andy putback
P22: James misses fade contested 3 (Williams miss 3 at buzzer)

James: 2-6 FG 5-5 FT 2 TO 0 ast (“10 pos used, 9 points”) **technically 1 TO
Rest of Cavs: 5-11 FG 2-6 FT 3 TO 4 Oreb

G2 or G4 aside (if those are also quibbles), what's your take on this quarter?