Bargnani vs. Gallinari

[dogrufus]

This has to be Bargnani. Gallinari is invisible.

He leads our team in Win Shares, is 3rd in the league in Offense Rating (how much better your team is on offense when you're on the floor), and scores 15 ppg on 10 shots, compared to Bargnani's 22 on 18 shots.

He's also 2nd in the league in fewest turnovers.

And our team has won 8 straight and 13 of 14. To those who fail to look closely, many things are invisible.

If he wants to keep being "invisible" that's just fine by me as a Knick fan.

[MSGBallerz]

^ I hate sounding like a Gallinari hater. I'm not, he does his role well and he certainly doesn't hurt us except by being too passive at times. He rarely screws up as evidenced by his turnover numbers and how efficient he is with the ball. He's just not very productive, even when we need him to be.

[dogrufus]

^ I hate sounding like a Gallinari hater. I'm not, he does his role well and he certainly doesn't hurt us except by being too passive at times. He rarely screws up as evidenced by his turnover numbers and how efficient he is with the ball. He's just not very productive, even when we need him to be.

It's the way he's used. When we were starting Felton/Fields/Gallo/Amare/Turiaf, he was the legit third option and was usually getting 18-20 ppg. Now that we're starting Wilson instead of Turiaf, Wilson has become the third option and there are just a lot less shots for Gallo. Trouble is we need him out there when Amare is out there because he spaces the floor (Amare is MUCH more effective whe Gallo is on the floor).

I think he could do more if he was given a little more responsibility. When he has had the ball in his hands good things have usually happened.

[aggo]

hard to compare the two

gallo is like the third option on his team (and u can argue he's actually the 4th) whereas bargs is #1

If gallo had 18 shots a game how many points do you think he'd put up? How many more points from the line would he get? His TS would generally remain the same, but his FGA and PPG would skyrocket.

Gallo is a great example of how raw FG% is grossly outdated and no longer relevant when discussing strengths/weaknesses of a player.

Gallo is probably bottom 5 in the league amongst FG% but top 5 in the league in TS% at his position.

Although they are both italian, tall, below average athleticism, etc etc they are actually different players.


bargs has trouble with lateral movement and putting the ball on the floor. He's a spot up shooter with infinite range.

gallo, by virtue of his TS% puts the ball on the floor regularly and gets to the line regularly.


All you have to do is look at their TS% and FGAs and understand who is clearly the better player even though their usage rates are vastly different.

[Rapcity_11]

hard to compare the two

gallo is like the third option on his team (and u can argue he's actually the 4th) whereas bargs is #1

If gallo had 18 shots a game how many points do you think he'd put up? How many more points from the line would he get? His TS would generally remain the same, but his FGA and PPG would skyrocket.

Gallo is a great example of how raw FG% is grossly outdated and no longer relevant when discussing strengths/weaknesses of a player.

Gallo is probably bottom 5 in the league amongst FG% but top 5 in the league in TS% at his position.

Although they are both italian, tall, below average athleticism, etc etc they are actually different players.


bargs has trouble with lateral movement and putting the ball on the floor. He's a spot up shooter with infinite range.

gallo, by virtue of his TS% puts the ball on the floor regularly and gets to the line regularly.


All you have to do is look at their TS% and FGAs and understand who is clearly the better player even though their usage rates are vastly different.

Couple things I want to point out although I generally agree with what you said:

1. Bargs is an above average athlete at either the 4 or 5. Don't see how you can say otherwise.
2. Bargs is great at putting the ball on the floor and has pretty good lateral movement for a 4 or 5.
3. Bargs' TS% is 56% which is pretty decent.

Also why doesn't Gallo get more touches? It makes no sense to me...

[KnickelandDime]

Couple things I want to point out although I generally agree with what you said:

1. Bargs is an above average athlete at either the 4 or 5. Don't see how you can say otherwise.
2. Bargs is great at putting the ball on the floor and has pretty good lateral movement for a 4 or 5.
3. Bargs' TS% is 56% which is pretty decent.

Also why doesn't Gallo get more touches? It makes no sense to me...

Yeah I don't get how other Knicks fans can act like if we double Gallos shot attempts we double his points automatically. His skillset suggests he would probably be no more high scoring or efficient than Bargs atm. If Gallo works on his midrange jumper and his ability to take guys off the dribble I think his scoring potential is off the charts. 6 11 guys with sg handles and shooting are valuable. The reason gallo isn't a first or second option is because hes being used as a shooter primarily and a scorer/option secondly. Mike needs somebody to stretch the floor which means when Gallo is out with 3 of Amare, Turiaf, Fields, and Chandler, he goes to the corner and does his best Kopona impersonation. When the team has shooters out and hes the clear second or third option he becomes more aggressive and shows glimpses of the great scorer we all hope he can become. The other reason he gets so few touches is the selfishness of a lot of the players on our team. It's our achilles heel on offense, if stuff doesn't come easily we stop moving the ball and start chucking.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

To the people referring to win shares, what a horrible way to compare players. Such logic completely negates ones supporting cast. Yes bargs gets more shots, he is the #1 option... which means he gets double teamed on most of his possessions which would screw with his eff.

Bottom line, Gallo is damn near getting outplayed by wilson chandler whereas bargs is straight up beasting lately. hes near averaging 21 / 7 / 3

anyone who says Gallo has a better offensive game than bargs clearly hasnt watched a single raptors game this year.

For this entire season its been bargs quite easily.

[Rockazoids]

To the people referring to win shares, what a horrible way to compare players. Such logic completely negates ones supporting cast. Yes bargs gets more shots, he is the #1 option... which means he gets double teamed on most of his possessions which would screw with his eff.

Bottom line, Gallo is damn near getting outplayed by wilson chandler whereas bargs is straight up beasting lately. hes near averaging 21 / 7 / 3

anyone who says Gallo has a better offensive game than bargs clearly hasnt watched a single raptors game this year.

For this entire season its been bargs quite easily.

Hay buddy, Chandler is out playing Barg also.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Both had a good game tonight

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Clearly Bargs at this point. Gallo is useless with Chandler on the Knicks.

[NYK 455]

Clearly Bargs at this point. Gallo is useless with Chandler on the Knicks.

Well, this is a silly statement.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

aside from shoot 3's at a nice clip, Gallo is somewhat of a one trick pony. He brings scoring and thats about it. nothing to write home about on the defensive end. and from watching the games hes been healthy for, it seems hes getting more relegated to a spot up shooter role and not much else. I dont know if ive missed something but i havent really seen much progression as a player

[NYK 455]

aside from shoot 3's at a nice clip, Gallo is somewhat of a one trick pony. He brings scoring and thats about it. nothing to write home about on the defensive end. and from watching the games hes been healthy for, it seems hes getting more relegated to a spot up shooter role and not much else. I dont know if ive missed something but i havent really seen much progression as a player

He is a more efficent scorer than Bargs, a better defender, and although he isn't a great rebounder, he's not a Center playing 36 minutes grabbing like 5 rebounds a game.

[blueNorange]

the spot up shooter with more free throws attempted than threes

and 'nothing to write home about' = 'i have seen him a handful of times'

[tsherkin]

Bargs is playing pretty well on offense this year. Even with a noticeable increase in turnovers, he's still not bleeding the ball to the other team, he's under 3 TPG, which is awesome, especially given that he's creating his own shot a lot more this year. He is still among the worst I've ever seen at drawing fouls (certainly in part to the high percentage of his shots that come from well away from the rim) and he doesn't finish well at the rim, but he's doing better than I expected.

Offensively, anyway. He's still not much use as a help defender and is so bad on the glass it hurts to watch, but baby steps are still steps and he's doing well enough for now that he's at least worth watching.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Neither are anything to write home about defensively, Bargs is clearly the better offensive player this season. He has been light years more consistent than Gallo while seeing constant double teams throughout every game.

This is Bargs by a country mile. and i dont see how anyone can say anything otherwise.

[EdMar_Davis]

How's this even a contest anymore? Let's compare Bargs to Amare, then we'll have something to talk about. The Knicks homers need to stop with this nonsense. Gallo is a slight upgrade over Bastjan Nachbar when he was with the Net's and jacking up 3's from VC and J Kidd's kickouts.

[Johnny Firpo]

How's this even a contest anymore? Let's compare Bargs to Amare, then we'll have something to talk about. The Knicks homers need to stop with this nonsense. Gallo is a slight upgrade over Bastjan Nachbar when he was with the Net's and jacking up 3's from VC and J Kidd's kickouts.

Bargs is better at this point, but that's still a very dumb post.

[F1uxCapacit0r]

Bargs rebounding is infuriating, but he is fun to watch when he is playing confident. I watch a lot more raptors games than NY games so i am biased when picking bargs, but at least I admit it.

from a 3rd party perspective, neither are anything that special, they can both score, they are both acceptable on D but nothing special, neither are very good at intangibles.

When bargs is playing PF, he looks far better on D because he is fine man to man, its the help D he is always a step behind in

[MSGBallerz]

This one and the other Bargnani/Bustinari thread should be merged IMO.

And in case I didn't say it, Bargnani easily.