Starting a Franchise...Prime KG or Lebron?

[singlepurposeac]

That's a bit of a ridiculous statement. I think Kobe will have more longevity than KG, and I take KG ahead of him to start a franchise, especially because of his higher peak. But to say Kobe has outlasted KG is just odd. KG has been an all-star since 97 (a real all-star, not a "LA fans voted me in all-star"), whereas Kobe wasn't really an all-star since 99 or 2000. KG also didn't get hurt until he was 32. Kobe is only 32 now, and he's missed more games than KG had at that age. It just happens KG missed games at the wrong time. It happens, but it's certainly not a mark against KG, that's ludicrous. Kobe will end in having more prime longevity than KG, but that's not the reason for the 2009 loss, that somehow Kobe "outlasted" a guy who is older than him, was a better player before him, played major minutes earlier, and had missed less games at the same age by a substantial margin.

[JordansBulls]

Garnett's rep as a choker was based on his team not winning, just like his new rep as a winner is based on his team winning, neither had to do much at all with his actual play, it was people's way of explaining him not having a title without having to know what was going on.

If you want to use defensive rating, Garnett always led better offenses and had better offensive ratings. Not a solid argument if you only want to use one.

Garnett didn't make the playoffs with teams that can't win 20 games, OH MAN!! Duncan's never been on a bad team in his life. Remember when Shaq and Duncan didn't have championship level teams in college? How many titles did they win?

Nothing wrong with taking LeBron or Duncan, just that the arguments are WEAK and ESPN-esque.

He was judged by not being able to go far in the playoffs in the same way TMac. TMac has put up astounding numbers in the playoffs but has never gotten out of the first round. People hold that against him regardless of numbers.

I don't like Ortg or Drtg (and said as much), but since people love to use them I brought it up. Duncan's career Ortg is 110 and Garnett's is 111. Hardly a difference. Duncan's career Drtg is 95 to Garnett's 99.

It is not about having championship caliber team, but about being able to make the playoffs. Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, etc have led poor teams to the playoffs. Duncan's teams were slightly better (talking about 2002 and 2003), but it isn't like he barely made the playoffs. His teams won 55+ games and in one of them won the title. Garnett's poor teams didn't even make the playoffs (sub 35 wins is an embarrassment for a guy who is supposedly doing all worldly stuff). Name me any other top 20 player who missed the playoff for 3 straight years smack dab in their primes?

I disagree a little with both of you. Firstly, Garnett shouldn't be judged too harshly for failing to win 3 titles since he got to Boston. For one, he was injured in 2009, for another he's getting on in years. It's not like 2010 was a match up of peak KG on a stacked team v.s peak Kobe on a stacked team. It was past his prime KG on a stacked team v.s prime Kobe on a stacked team. Hardly fair.

It is not Kobe's fault that he has lasted longer than KG. KG has been in the league 1 year longer and played less overall minutes than Kobe. And KGs supporting cast is way better than Kobe. Team Kobe up with Allen, Pierce, Rondo, Perkins, and a great bench and you get titles every year.

I don't see how you don't take Lebron here. If it were Lebron and Duncan that is a different story.

[SDChargers#1]

That's a bit of a ridiculous statement. I think Kobe will have more longevity than KG, and I take KG ahead of him to start a franchise, especially because of his higher peak. But to say Kobe has outlasted KG is just odd. KG has been an all-star since 97 (a real all-star, not a "LA fans voted me in all-star"), whereas Kobe wasn't really an all-star since 99 or 2000. KG also didn't get hurt until he was 32. Kobe is only 32 now, and he's missed more games than KG had at that age. It just happens KG missed games at the wrong time. It happens, but it's certainly not a mark against KG, that's ludicrous. Kobe will end in having more prime longevity than KG, but that's not the reason for the 2009 loss, that somehow Kobe "outlasted" a guy who is older than him, was a better player before him, played major minutes earlier, and had missed less games at the same age by a substantial margin.

Kobe as a 31 year old as you said was "in his prime" with a stacked team vs. a non prime Garnett and a stacked team (your words).

Kobe has already had more elite seasons, 12 and counting to KGs. Who has had 10 by my count. KG just has more good seasons than Kobe (the last 3 plus a couple of earlier ones).

Also, did you miss the part about Kobe having already played more minutes in his career than Garnett? Kobe has more than double the playoff minutes that Garnett has.

Also Garnett's peak may be better than Kobe's, but that is only a couple of years. I would take Kobe's prime over Garnett's every single day of the week.

[singlepurposeac]

2009 KG wasn't in his prime anymore, no. But KG was about to turn 33, and Kobe hadn't turned 31 yet. KG was also playing at a higher level before Kobe. Ultimately Kobe will have more longevity, but that isn't relevant to 2009, which you suggested it was. At the same age Kobe had missed way more games. KG's injury was just badly timed, Kobe didn't "outlast him" or some bull.

[Ruhiel]

Wade + prime KG + fitting scrub role players >>> Heat 2011
and that's totally ignoring Bosh

LeBron's game doesn't fit well with other stars. KG fits perfectly with pretty much everyone.

that is true 2 an extent. but the problem is Bosh is not a defensive player. Bosh is like Kevin Martin at SF.

If Lebron had a driving point guard he would be unstoppable driving to the baseline/back door cutting. Also they can't get out and play a running style because no one can push the ball and put pressure on the defense, so instead of filling Lanes Lebron and Wade have to play PG themselves.
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They need a PG who can push ala a younger Billups nothing wrong with the Heat except they are one player short of the style they want 2 play.
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in spite of That being said: Billups, Wade, Gay, KG, Dalembert

well damn Wade took that 2K simulation strategy to heart today for at leastone play. Wade to Lebron baseline lob :S
Wade can play pg to a certain extent but imagine Wade and Lebron with another big guard driving or posting up. Miller couldn't cut it but imagine Iguodala/Pippen/Magic "dominating" the ball efficiently. defenders would take their eyes off/double big guard/Lebron/Wade and they become a 3rd option o.O

[ballhawk1]

LBJ is a superior player in more areas...that's said, It would be easier to build a team around KG. I would rather have KG to build around.