James Harden is a superstar

Krodis · Post #161 » by **Krodis** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:39 pm

And Harden's TS% is up to a rather insane .665 after torching the Heat and Blazers. Fairly absurd for ANYONE at that volume, and certainly for a guard.

Post #162 » by **tsherkin** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:50 pm

Krodis wrote:And Harden's TS% is up to a rather insane .665 after torching the Heat and Blazers. Fairly absurd for ANYONE at that volume, and certainly for a guard.

Been waiting for that to come down, but it just isn't. He's having a hell of a year.

BmanInBigD · Post #163 » by **BmanInBigD** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:41 pm

He's having a great year and is a really good, young player. Superstar? Let's talk when he's a #1 option for a good team putting up anything CLOSE to those efficiency #'s. Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you. But I would LOVE to have him as a potential second or definitely third option.

BmanInBigD · Post #164 » by **BmanInBigD** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:45 pm

He's having a great year and is a really good, young player. Superstar? Let's talk when he's a #1 option for a good team putting up anything CLOSE to those efficiency #'s. Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you. But I would LOVE to have him as a potential second or definitely third option.

Rapcity_11 · Post #165 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:49 pm

Do people really think teams aren't gameplanning for Harden? The Harden PnR is one of OKC's most commonly run plays. Teams are constantly switching up the way they defend it and Harden gets shredding them by making the right play.

sp6r=underrated · Post #166 » by **sp6r=underrated** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:08 pm

Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you.

No offense but this is very dumb. Only 20 times in history has someone avgd 15 ppg and greater than .65 ts. There is nothing easy about shooting this well from the field.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

Rapcity_11 · Post #167 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:12 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you.

No offense but this is very dumb. Only 20 times in history has someone avgd 15 ppg and greater than .65 ts. There is nothing easy about shooting this well from the field.

And only 1 of them was a guard. (Nash)

Bravely Done · Post #168 » by **Bravely Done** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:06 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:Do people really think teams aren't gameplanning for Harden? The Harden PnR is one of OKC's most commonly run plays. Teams are constantly switching up the way they defend it and Harden gets shredding them by making the right play.

Teams send more traps Harden's way than they do Westbrook. He see's no less defensive attention than most second options.

BmanInBigD · Post #169 » by **BmanInBigD** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:28 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you.

No offense but this is very dumb. Only 20 times in history has someone avgd 15 ppg and greater than .65 ts. There is nothing easy about shooting this well from the field.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

Yeah well the chart shows that the only guys on there that are "superstars" were scoring a lot more than 15 points and did it for the whole season, and mostly multiple seasons, not 49 games in one season. You're gonna call me dumb when you're trying to prove Harden is a superstar cuz he is on some list near Cornbread Freakin' Maxwell and Chocolate Thunder? :lol:

Fail

Like I said, let's see him do this with 22-25 points as first option then we can talk. He is not a superstar.

Rapcity_11 · Post #170 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:36 pm

BmanInBigD wrote:Yeah well the chart shows that the only guys on there that are "superstars" were scoring a lot more than 15 points and did it for the whole season, and mostly multiple seasons, not 49 games in one season. You're gonna call me dumb when you're trying to prove Harden is a superstar cuz he is on some list near Cornbread Freakin' Maxwell and Chocolate Thunder? Fail

Like I said, let's see him do this with 22-25 points as first option then we can talk. He is not a superstar.

This is your original post:

Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you.

Which was proven to be completely untrue with %'s as high as Harden.

So yeah, your post was dumb.

ahonui06 · Post #171 » by **ahonui06** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:37 pm

Harden isn't a superstar, but he is efficient.

BmanInBigD · Post #172 » by **BmanInBigD** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:59 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
BmanInBigD wrote:Yeah well the chart shows that the only guys on there that are "superstars" were scoring a lot more than 15 points and did it for the whole season, and mostly multiple seasons, not 49 games in one season. You're gonna call me dumb when you're trying to prove Harden is a superstar cuz he is on some list near Cornbread Freakin' Maxwell and Chocolate Thunder? Fail

Like I said, let's see him do this with 22-25 points as first option then we can talk. He is not a superstar.

This is your original post:

Easy to shoot a high percentage when you can pick your spots to shoot and are not having defenses game-plan for you.

Which was proven to be completely untrue with %'s as high as Harden.

So yeah, your post was dumb.

Well how hard could it be if Cornbread did it three different seasons? He was what, fourth or fifth best player on that team? Point is, most good players eventually are gonna have to shoot more, especially if anyone is gonna call them a star, let alone a "superstar". And their efficiency in all likelihood will go down. If he wants to stay at Cornbread's level, fine, he'll be efficient and valuable and all. But good freakin grief, get off his jock already. This is really getting stupid with you people trying to make him out to be the next coming... :roll:

richboy · Post #173 » by **richboy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:05 pm

There a difference between superstar and having an ideal game for advance stats. Harden takes the 2 most efficient shots in basketball. He pretty much only takes the two most efficient shots in basketball. He sharely shoots when he is covered. It is either drives to the rim or 3 point shots. Meaning his entire game is wide open 3s, drives to the rim for layups, and free throws. If you love advance stats you love James Harden. The question is if Harden played full time as a number 1 option would have have to start shooting more contested shots. Would he have to develop a midrange game. Harden does have a advantage now because Westbrook and Durant take the difficult shots. Harden doesn't even have clutch stats because those 2 take the shots when the defense is at its toughest. Also there some numbers that suggest Harden is not the same player when guarded by SGs. That he is much more effective in his minutes at SF than he is at SG.

Rapcity_11 · Post #174 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:14 pm

BmanInBigD wrote:Well how hard could it be if Cornbread did it three different seasons? He was what, fourth or fifth best player on that team?

Pretty damn hard, considering only 20 guys have done it at over 15 PPG.

Point is, most good players eventually are gonna have to shoot more, especially if anyone is gonna call them a star, let alone a "superstar". And their efficiency in all likelihood will go down. If he wants to stay at Cornbread's level, fine, he'll be efficient and valuable and all. But good freakin grief, get off his jock already. This is really getting stupid with you people trying to make him out to be the next coming...

Even if his efficiency (TS%) drops 6.5%, he'll still be at elite levels.

He's basically the only good young 2 guard in the league. There's hardly anybody else worth talking about.

Rapcity_11 · Post #175 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:16 pm

richboy wrote:There a difference between superstar and having an ideal game for advance stats. Harden takes the 2 most efficient shots in basketball. He pretty much only takes the two most efficient shots in basketball. He sharely shoots when he is covered. It is either drives to the rim or 3 point shots. Meaning his entire game is wide open 3s, drives to the rim for layups, and free throws. If you love advance stats you love James Harden. The question is if Harden played full time as a number 1 option would have have to start shooting more contested shots. Would he have to develop a midrange game. Harden does have a advantage now because Westbrook and Durant take the difficult shots. Harden doesn't even have clutch stats because those 2 take the shots when the defense is at its toughest. Also there some numbers that suggest Harden is not the same player when guarded by SGs. That he is much more effective in his minutes at SF than he is at SG.

Yes, how dare he make good decisions and take good shots.

Like I just said, at his current efficiency Harden has PLENTY of room to drop and still be among the elite. And he already scores at 19.4 PP36. That's not that low a volume.

BmanInBigD · Post #176 » by **BmanInBigD** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:27 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
Even if his efficiency (TS%) drops 6.5%, he'll still be at elite levels.

He's basically the only good young 2 guard in the league. There's hardly anybody else worth talking about.

TS doesn't mean crap unless you're comparing comparable scorers.

OK, he's the best young 2 guard. These points make him a superstar?

Rapcity_11 · Post #177 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:33 pm

lol, whatever man. Not worth wasting anymore of my time on you.

fallacy · Post #178 » by **fallacy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:37 pm

He's the third best SG in the NBA this year

richboy · Post #179 » by **richboy** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:41 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
richboy wrote:There a difference between superstar and having an ideal game for advance stats. Harden takes the 2 most efficient shots in basketball. He pretty much only takes the two most efficient shots in basketball. He sharely shoots when he is covered. It is either drives to the rim or 3 point shots. Meaning his entire game is wide open 3s, drives to the rim for layups, and free throws. If you love advance stats you love James Harden. The question is if Harden played full time as a number 1 option would have have to start shooting more contested shots. Would he have to develop a midrange game. Harden does have a advantage now because Westbrook and Durant take the difficult shots. Harden doesn't even have clutch stats because those 2 take the shots when the defense is at its toughest. Also there some numbers that suggest Harden is not the same player when guarded by SGs. That he is much more effective in his minutes at SF than he is at SG.

Yes, how dare he make good decisions and take good shots.

Like I just said, at his current efficiency Harden has PLENTY of room to drop and still be among the elite. And he already scores at 19.4 PP36. That's not that low a volume.

A superstar has to take tough shots. He can't just focus on wide open shots or lay ups. If he has a drop he still be a very good player. However were tossing around superstars like they are easy to come by. Your say superstar your telling me he right there with the best players in basketball. That Harden be right there with Dirk, Durant, James, Wade, Rose, Paul, Westbrook, etc. He going to have to do more than 22 ppg for that. He going to have to be 25 plus a game. Can he be that as number 1 option? Can he win as the best player on the team? He not scoring like that taking his current shot selection. I'm not knocking him for what he does. I'm pointing out the reality of what he doesn't do and what he would have to do as a number 1 option.

Rapcity_11 · Post #180 » by **Rapcity_11** » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:50 pm

richboy wrote:A superstar has to take tough shots. He can't just focus on wide open shots or lay ups. If he has a drop he still be a very good player.

That's true. A superstar, can however continue to make great decisions like he does currently. Harden's IQ is extremely high.

There is no rule that stars need to take a bunch of contested mid-range shots.

However were tossing around superstars like they are easy to come by. Your say superstar your telling me he right there with the best players in basketball.

I wouldn't label with a superstar just yet. I think he will be and is much closer than most people think. This isn't my thread either.

That Harden be right there with Dirk, Durant, James, Wade, Rose, Paul, Westbrook, etc. He going to have to do more than 22 ppg for that.

Harden is probably more of a pass-first guy with the ball in his hands. There is no magic number like 22 or 24 PPG that he needs to attain. It will be about opportunities created for his team whether it be himself shooting or teammates.

He going to have to be 25 plus a game.

Again with the arbitrary number...

Can he be that as number 1 option? Can he win as the best player on the team? He not scoring like that taking his current shot selection. I'm not knocking him for what he does. I'm pointing out the reality of what he doesn't do and what he would have to do as a number 1 option.

He's already scoring at 19.4 PP36 sharing the ball with Durant and Westbrook. He'd be at 20+ if he wasn't used as a spot up shooter so much.