When Did Kobe Pass Dr.J On Your Rankings And Why/How?

[Josephpaul]

It sucks that the transition time from Shaq Lakers to Gasol/Odom Lakers was probably right at Kobe's peak athleticism. Would have loved to see him with a supporting cast at that time.

Well he did have Prime Odom... who put up 20/11/5 on 60%TS in the 06 playoffs.
Hell even Kwame played good in the 06 playoffs and some of his roleplayers stepped up.

Those teams weren't as bad at people try to say.
They were probably on par with some of Lebrons worst Cleveland teams and better then what T-Mac and Wade had to deal with some years in the 00's.

Can't pity a guy who is only behind Bill Russell and maybe Kareem when it comes to lucking out with great career circumstances/supporting casts.

[An Unbiased Fan]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

2008
David West - 20.6 PPG/8.9 RPG for 76 games

Pau on LA - 18.8 PPG/7.8 RPG for 27 games

[Father Time]

It sucks that the transition time from Shaq Lakers to Gasol/Odom Lakers was probably right at Kobe's peak athleticism. Would have loved to see him with a supporting cast at that time.

Well he did have Prime Odom... who put up 20/11/5 on 60%TS in the 06 playoffs.
Hell even Kwame played good in the 06 playoffs and some of his roleplayers stepped up.

Those teams weren't as bad at people try to say.
They were probably on par with some of Lebrons worst Cleveland teams and better then what T-Mac and Wade had to deal with some years in the 00's.

Can't pity a guy who is only behind Bill Russell and maybe Kareem when it comes to lucking out with great career circumstances/supporting casts.

[JingoWolf]

It sucks that the transition time from Shaq Lakers to Gasol/Odom Lakers was probably right at Kobe's peak athleticism. Would have loved to see him with a supporting cast at that time.

Well he did have Prime Odom... who put up 20/11/5 on 60%TS in the 06 playoffs.
Hell even Kwame played good in the 06 playoffs and some of his roleplayers stepped up.

Those teams weren't as bad at people try to say.
They were probably on par with some of Lebrons worst Cleveland teams and better then what T-Mac and Wade had to deal with some years in the 00's.

Can't pity a guy who is only behind Bill Russell and maybe Kareem when it comes to lucking out with great career circumstances/supporting casts.

Kwame Brown 06 playoffs.

G1 : 14pts / 6rbs
G2 : 12pts / 2blks
G3 : 13pts / 11rbs / 5asts / 3blks on 67%TS
G4 : 12pts / 11rbs
G5 : 14pts on 90%TS
G6 : 17pts / 9rbs / 1blk on 90%TS

Kwamehhhh
But... But... he was the worst player of All-Time... of All-Time!

[MisterWestside]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

2008
David West - 20.6 PPG/8.9 RPG for 76 games

Pau on LA - 18.8 PPG/7.8 RPG for 27 games

Still on per game numbers, hmm?

Jingo, I remember that 06 series. Kwame actually played some good basketball.

[JingoWolf]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

2008
David West - 20.6 PPG/8.9 RPG for 76 games

Pau on LA - 18.8 PPG/7.8 RPG for 27 games

What about defense where Gasol owns him 100x over?
What about shot blocking presense?
What about passing and efficiency?

What about the fact that West had CP3 raising his averages/efficiency.

Peak West isn't close to 08-10 Gasol.

Oh and for the Kwame dissers... see below.

Kwame Brown 06 playoffs.

G1 : 14pts / 6rbs
G2 : 12pts / 2blks
G3 : 13pts / 11rbs / 5asts / 3blks on 67%TS
G4 : 12pts / 11rbs
G5 : 14pts on 90%TS
G6 : 17pts / 9rbs / 1blk on 90%TS

Kwamehhhh
But... But... he was the worst player of All-Time... of All-Time!

[An Unbiased Fan]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

2008
David West - 20.6 PPG/8.9 RPG for 76 games

Pau on LA - 18.8 PPG/7.8 RPG for 27 games

Still on per game numbers, hmm?

What should I be looking at then? West produced more, and did it for almost 3 times the games Gasol did for LA. CLEARLY, CP3 had more help.

[JingoWolf]

What should I be looking at then? West produced more, and did it for almost 3 times the games Gasol did for LA. CLEARLY, CP3 had more help.

Uhm... you are ignoring efficiency.
08 LAL Gasol = .65%TS
08 OKC West = .55%TS?

You are ignoring Gasol was a far better sblocker/defender.
You are ignoring Gasol was a far better passer/playmaker.

08 LAL Gasol PER = 24.
08 OKC West PER = 20.

You're cherry picking numbers to try and make a point that doesn't exist.
Gasol was a much better player especially when you factor in that CP3 inflated Wests numbers and efficiency.

[An Unbiased Fan]

@UBFan

How the hell did David West become better then Prime Gasol?

Very silly thing to say dude for so many reasons.

2008
David West - 20.6 PPG/8.9 RPG for 76 games

Pau on LA - 18.8 PPG/7.8 RPG for 27 games

What about defense where Gasol owns him 100x over?
What about shot blocking presense?
What about passing and efficiency?

What about the fact that West had CP3 raising his averages/efficiency.

Peak West isn't close to 08-10 Gasol.

I never said West > Gasol on a career basis. I said that West's contributions to the 08' Hornets > Pau's impact on the Lakers's 08' regular season.

One guy played 76 games, the other played 27 games.

[JingoWolf]

One guy played 76 games, the other played 27 games.

That's the only part of your argument that makes sense.

I guess you can go with that and I can't really disagree with you but when Gasol was on LAL he was superior to 08 West by a significant margin.

But yeah the fact that he didn't have him all year is the difference and might/probably made West more valuable.

[MisterWestside]

One guy played 76 games, the other played 27 games.

But when you consider that the guy before Gasol (Bynum) produced at Gasol-like levels when he was on the floor, you got 62 games of superior play to West's 72 games.

Just because you play more games doesn't necessarily mean you are more productive. What are you doing while you are IN the game?

[An Unbiased Fan]

One guy played 76 games, the other played 27 games.

That's the only part of your argument that makes sense.

I guess you can go with that and I can't really disagree with you but when Gasol was on LAL he was superior to 08 West by a significant margin.

But yeah the fact that he didn't have him all year is the difference and might/probably made West more valuable.

Which has been my point from the start. CP3 had a healthy froncourt of West & Chandler for 76 games. Kobe had Bynum for 35 games, and then Pau for 27 games a few weeks later. That means 20 games(24% of the season) he didn't even have a center.

[JingoWolf]

Which has been my point from the start. CP3 had a healthy froncourt of West & Chandler for 76 games. Kobe had Bynum for 35 games, and then Pau for 27 games a few weeks later. That means 20 games(24% of the season) he didn't even have a center.

I can actually accept/understand that argument saying CP3 had the better supporting cast but I don't think that alone is enough to automatically make Kobe the clear choice.

W/L record can be effected by many things.
The 01 Lakers won far less games then the 00 Lakers despite being a better team.

I just thought CP3 was a straight out better player that year in the regular season and had a greater individual impact despite the fact that Kobe's "team" won a game or two more with a possibly slightly inferior supporting cast.

I never really had a beef with Kobe winning it though.
Its far from the worst MVP selection I've seen (01 Iverson/11 Rose) and he was my 2nd choice after CP3.

[An Unbiased Fan]

One guy played 76 games, the other played 27 games.

But when you consider that the guy before Gasol (Bynum) produced at Gasol-like levels when he was on the floor, you got 62 games of superior play to West's 72 games.

Just because you play more games doesn't necessarily mean you are more productive. What are you doing while you are IN the game?

Bynum produced 13/10, which is more on par with Chandler's 12/12. So NO had Chandler all year as a real defensive anchor dropping a 12/12 double-double, AND an All-Star D. West dropping 21/9, AND Peja give 17 PPG on 44% 3pt.

[MisterWestside]

Bynum produced 13/10, which is more on par with Chandler's 12/12. So NO had Chandler all year as a real defensive anchor dropping a 12/12 double-double, AND an All-Star D. West dropping 21/9, AND Peja give 17 PPG on 44% 3pt.

Except Bynum actually gave you 16/13 while he was on the floor at a .659 TS. Created a little more on the offensive end than Chandler and was a superior rebounder. He also played well defensively.

He was more productive than any of CP3 teammates when healthy.

[MisterWestside]

Which has been my point from the start. CP3 had a healthy froncourt of West & Chandler for 76 games. Kobe had Bynum for 35 games, and then Pau for 27 games a few weeks later. That means 20 games(24% of the season) he didn't even have a center.

I can actually accept/understand that argument saying CP3 had the better supporting cast but I don't think that alone is enough to automatically make Kobe the clear choice.

W/L record can be effected by many things.
The 01 Lakers won far less games then the 00 Lakers despite being a better team.

I just thought CP3 was a straight out better player that year in the regular season and had a greater individual impact despite the fact that Kobe's "team" won a game or two more with a possibly slightly inferior supporting cast.

I never really had a beef with Kobe winning it though.
Its far from the worst MVP selection I've seen (01 Iverson/11 Rose) and he was my 2nd choice after CP3.

I believe the Lakers went 5-5 after the Bynum injury and before Gasol came to the team. Two of those wins came against solid teams by SRS; the others came against bottom-dwellers.

[AnaheimRoyale]

The funny things is the Cavs had a 50+ win % with Lebron playing that year (which he did for 75 games), posting better stats. He, KG and Chris Paul were blatantly robbed of the regular season MVP by Kobe.

Someone has their finger on the money when they say Kobe has been blessed with awesome talent during his career, if Erving had played with the same calibre of players Kobe had, he'd have 7 titles at least. Duncan would have over 10.

[JordansBulls]

Dr J is probably the hardest player ever to rate in comparison to others because his best years were clearly in the ABA.

[Asianiac_24]

Kobe in 08':

- 28/6/5 58TS%
-#1 seed in the West with Gasol for 27 games and Bynum for 35

Paul in 08':
-21/12/4 58TS%
-#2 seed in the West with West, Chandler, and Peja all healthy

Looks like we had the correct winner here. Not to mention Kobe was better in the playoffs and got further than Paul did. The playoffs PROVED that the voters got it right.

[Asianiac_24]

The funny things is the Cavs had a 50+ win % with Lebron playing that year (which he did for 75 games), posting better stats. He, KG and Chris Paul were blatantly robbed of the regular season MVP by Kobe.

Someone has their finger on the money when they say Kobe has been blessed with awesome talent during his career, if Erving had played with the same calibre of players Kobe had, he'd have 7 titles at least. Duncan would have over 10.

LOL. After the decision everyone thought Miami would win every year when LeBron signed with Wade and Bosh. Guess what, they are in their second year together and they probably won't win for the second straight year. T-Mac teamed up with Yao, everyone thought they would win. Guess what? T-Mac still never got out of first round. Iverson teamed up with Carmelo and won nothing. Shaq played with Penny and Wade when he was still relatively in his prime and only got one, and most would agree Miami didn't even deserve it. Dr.J had Moses Malone and only won 1 with him.

But Kobe's teammates are so good Dr.J would win at least 7, even though he had Moses Malone and only won 1. Duncan would win at least 10, even though he had Parker, Ginobili, D-Rob, and Bowen and one of the best front offices in the league and only won 4.