#7 Highest Peak of All Time (Bird '86 wins)

[therealbig3]

OMG, he just said 04 LeBron (IOW, his ROOKIE year coming straight out of high school) was his peak season against "real" defenses and should seriously be considered when discussing LeBron's peak.

Unreal.

[Doctor MJ]

Some food for thought. Below are the stats against real defense for two players, one who is about to be voted in, the other who won't sniff the top 300 peaks.

Player A: 23.4 ppg/8.9 rpg/5.5apg/.505 TS%/ worst defensive player in the league/18.9 PER

Player B: 20.9 ppg/5.5 rpg/5.9 apg/ .488TS%/ worst defensive player in the league/18.3 PER

Again, this is each player's peak seasons against real defenses. If you vote for one of them, the other should be voted in soon as well

I don't know what to do with this information dude. Elaborate.

Two players best season's when handchecking was still allowed. I'm fairly suspect of perimeter players post 2004. While I still think very highly of Nash, Kobe, Wade, Lebron, etc., I do think that the rules and systems of teams nowadays overstates their impact. I just feel that present player's stats are taken at face value too often and not adjusted for how much easier it is for wings and guards to put up gaudy box score and impact stats in a league that caters to them. My two cents

Wow, I'd had no idea you were talking about handchecking. I'm still not sure what to do with it without the player names. I understand you're showing stats to keep us from being biased, but you'll have to put them in before I can really process it.

[Doctor MJ]

OMG, he just said 04 LeBron (IOW, his ROOKIE year coming straight out of high school) was his peak season against "real" defenses and should seriously be considered when discussing LeBron's peak.

Unreal.

Wow, I didn't make the connection just based on the number. Granger, what are you doing here?

[Dr Positivity]

Duncan beating Bird isn't because an "anyone but Lebron" attitude. I'm reading through the thread and colts voted Lebron but said he'd go Duncan after, drza is saying "one of the bigs or Magic", JordansBulls says he has Magic 4 Duncan 5 and Bird 8, and JosephPaul's original vote was for Magic before switching it to Duncan. So there's a trend of people jumping off Magic, which means they're choosing between the 3 players in contention - and I don't see anything wrong with that, if it's close a pseudo run-off of these voters is exactly what should be happening. It would be an issue if Bird voters were switching to Duncan to keep Lebron off the list but that's not happening.

No, it's more complicated than that, and the proof is right in what you mentioned:

Those are 3 people who have jumped off the Magic bandwagon in a vote which at the time had LeBron in the lead with 4 votes. They let the fact that Duncan got two quick votes persuade them that he was in the runoff, and now those 3 Magic converts make up the majority of the Duncan contingency.

Had they simply stuck to their guns, Magic would be ahead of Duncan, no worse than one vote behind LeBron, and very much in the "runoff". They didn't, so in essence what this group of 5 has done is side for the preference of 2 over the preference of the other 3. This is the problem with strategic voting in a nutshell, and why people need to be careful using it or they will actually make their preferences have less weight than if they didn't try to strategize at all.

That's true, Magic may have been hurt by the run-off by his supporters jumping off too early. At the same time, let's say Magic gets to those 4 votes, and then Bird or Lebron end up winning anyways. Now there's a case where Lebron/Bird got voted in, when in reality there was enough voters who wanted Duncan ahead of him to get him the spot, their votes were just split between Duncan and Magic. This isn't an ideal situation either because Lebron or Bird beat Duncan, when at least 5 voters had Duncan tops of the 3

Or put it this way: The run-off negatively effected the vote if Magic was destined to beat Lebron and Bird in the 3 way tie at 4 votes. If Lebron or Bird were going to beat Magic (and I can personally attest that I would change my vote to Bird if Duncan was sitting at 2 votes instead of 5 and it became a 3 way tie), then the run-off positively effected the vote, because the vote between solely Lebron/Bird/Duncan would've been accurately decided, with Duncan getting the edge

There isn't going to be a clean decision when votes are split like this because nobody's getting the majority vote. Magic getting to a 4 way tie and then getting the tiebreaking vote or getting someone else to jump off their vote is not exactly a decisive victory either. The reason the vote is split is because these seasons are so close, which makes "getting the order right" not that big of a deal

[colts18]

OMG, he just said 04 LeBron (IOW, his ROOKIE year coming straight out of high school) was his peak season against "real" defenses and should seriously be considered when discussing LeBron's peak.

Unreal.

Wow, I didn't make the connection just based on the number. Granger, what are you doing here?

Antoine Walker vs. LeBron comparison. Never seen that before. I hope he's not on the voting panel.

[therealbig3]

The other one's 01 Antoine Walker btw.

[therealbig3]

The reason the vote is split is because these seasons are so close, which makes "getting the order right" not that big of a deal

This is an excellent point, and it does put things in perspective.

There's really no wrong answer right now, so it's not a big deal who gets voted in where.

[C-izMe]

I do kinda believe that if Lebron wasn't as good as Walker in his rookie season we should disqualify him. Just my opinion .

[therealbig3]

I'm switching my vote from 09 LeBron to 86 Bird (edited my original vote too).

[C-izMe]

I guess 86 Bird has it because I'm switching my vote. Sorry Duncan.

[Doctor MJ]

k, will check the votes thoroughly later tonight. Sounds like Bird did it though.