The case for LeBron 2009 as the GOAT peak

[nolunch]

2001 Kobe against Spurs series >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any version of Lebron in any series

Spurs' defense stopped Lebron at some points, but Kobe loves Spurs' defense and killing it.

[colts18]

2001 Kobe against Spurs series >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any version of Lebron in any series

Spurs' defense stopped Lebron at some points, but Kobe loves Spurs' defense and killing it.

You mean the series where Kobe was being guarded by Danny Ferry, Antonio Daniels, and Terry Porter. It's not as good of a series as LeBron vs the Pacers when he faced real defenders.

[roriobane]

Yeah, going up against the legendary Roy Hibbert in the no hand-checking era is a lot tougher than going up against Duncan/D-Rob in the best defensive era in history. No doubt.

[theonlyclutch]

Yeah, going up against the legendary Roy Hibbert in the no hand-checking era is a lot tougher than going up against Duncan/D-Rob in the best defensive era in history. No doubt.

It's probably a lot easier with a certain 7-foot 330+ pound offensive monster making a mess on the interior, no doubt.

[roriobane]

It's probably a lot easier with a certain 6'6 guard destroying everybody on the perimeter, and dunking on everybody on the interior. No doubt.

And in the best defensive era in history? Against the team with the two best defensive players in the league? Damn.

[Quotatious]

Yeah, going up against the legendary Roy Hibbert in the no hand-checking era is a lot tougher than going up against Duncan/D-Rob in the best defensive era in history. No doubt.

Hibbert was a legitimately great defender. Even when he really struggled offensively, his defensive impact was still there. Pacers also had arguably the best perimeter defender in the league - George, and another good wing defender- Stephenson. Pacers had the #1 ranked defense both years. In absolute terms, their defense was just slightly worse than the 2001 Spurs had (Spurs had 98.0 DRtg, 2013 Pacers had 99.8, 2014 Pacers had 99.3 - and remember the Spurs were playing in a much more defense-oriented era) league-relative, Indiana actually had better defense than San Antonio.

The handchecking thing is extremely overstated. Both Kobe and especially LeBron are strong enough not to be affected by handchecking. It had some impact on small, quick guards who didn't have that much strength, like Iverson or Parker, but not on guys like Kobe or LeBron.

Look at Kobe's scoring numbers pre and post 2004, you'll notice it was pretty much the same efficiency-wise.

[Quotatious]

It's probably a lot easier with a certain 6'6 guard destroying everybody on the perimeter, and dunking on everybody on the interior. No doubt.

And in the best defensive era in history? Against the team with the two best defensive players in the league? Damn.

Not to mention playing alongside arguably the most dominant player ever...

[semi-sentient]

Boy this thread is all over the place now. Why are the Pacers now in the conversation? Seems unrelated to anything.

BTW, the '01 Kings had a better dRtg than the Pacers with a legit wing defender in Christie. Kobe still destroyed them. Let's not act like LeBron didn't have guys taking away attention from him either. The Heat had excellent floor spacing which allowed LeBron room to operate, just like Kobe had Shaq to open things up for him. I don't know why people have such a hard time giving players credit where credit is due.

[Ballerhogger]

09 Lebron is top 5 peak in modern day basketball but it hard to see it has the top peak. Since he lost in 6 games in ECF. Not 7 against a magic team without their starting pg.




highlights for game 6.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FXynLDfAiM

[Ballerhogger]

Dwight just man handled the Cavs bigs as you can see. Mo willams played pretty well in game 6.

[roriobane]

It's probably a lot easier with a certain 6'6 guard destroying everybody on the perimeter, and dunking on everybody on the interior. No doubt.

And in the best defensive era in history? Against the team with the two best defensive players in the league? Damn.

Not to mention playing alongside arguably the most dominant player ever...

Not to mention going up against the best defensive front-court in NBA history.

Damn. The other guy only had a top 2 SG in basketball, another top 15 guy/top 5 PF, one the best shooters ever, and the best cast of shooters in basketball by far. Oh, and he was playing in the easiest defensive environment in history for perimeter players while the other guy was playing in the best. Damn.

[Louie_Ruckuz]

His 2009 run is overrated.

[HakeemIsTheGOAT]

All you're doing is throwing in a bunch of broken stats(PER, WS, RAPM, etc) and throwing in 10 game sample sizes of the cavs without Lebron. You also forget the cavs were based mainly on team defense. IMO, I think Hakeem(forgot what season), Shaq(2000), Kobe(2006), and MJ(1989) all had better peaks.

[ppedro123]

Kobe's great

But there's no way 06 Kobe is better than 09 LeBron

[mjj0062]

2009 Lebron is without a doubt the best season for a player that didn't win a title (Barkley in 93 needs some love too). I think its top 5 overall as well. Ive never seen a player like he did dominate athletically like that, while taking a team with delonte west as the second best player to a 66-16 record.

And those that say well he lost to orlando, he did everything he possibly could in that series. 39/8/8 with high %'s and was good defensively too. If the Cavs could have put some better talent around him I have no doubt it would have been right up there with mj's best seasons

[Doctor MJ]

I'm going to let this bumped thread continue because it feels organic the way it happened, and because quite frankly, I think it's an idea worth revisiting as we watch Curry progress through this season. But behave yourselves folks.

[mjj0062]

His 2009 run is overrated.

66-16 with Delonte West as the second best player. Thats all im going to say to this

[ShotCreator]

Reference point bump for me and everyone else just to know what LeBron truly was at his athletic peak.

17 LeBron played at by far the highest sustained level I’ve ever seen that postseason but if I could’ve followed the entirety of that 09 season I’d probably feel different.