The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

colts18 · Post #161 » by **colts18** » Wed May 18, 2016 8:33 pm

It's stunning how close LeBron's raw numbers in these playoffs are to his 2011 playoffs

11: 23.7 PPG, 8.4 Reb, 5.9 AST
16: 23.6 PPG, 8.4 Reb 6.9 AST

Post #162 » by **tsherkin** » Wed May 18, 2016 8:46 pm

colts18 wrote:It's stunning how close LeBron's raw numbers in these playoffs are to his 2011 playoffs

11: 23.7 PPG, 8.4 Reb, 5.9 AST
16: 23.6 PPG, 8.4 Reb 6.9 AST

Consequential differences that this doesn't really reveal:

11: 43.9 mpg
16: 37.7 pg

I actually don't need to go further than that, but...

11: 113 ORTG, 23.7 PER, 56.3% TS, .418 FTR, .198 WS/48, +5.0 OBPM, +2.8 DBPM
16: 114 ORTG, 26.1 PER, 57.6% TS, .247 FTR, .227 WS/48, +5.0 OBPM, +4.5 DBPM

Naturally, I'm missing the PM data and all that, and not getting into the obvious qualitative differences, but it's kinda pointless to make this comment when he's playing like 6 fewer minutes per game and looking so obviously better while they dominate, and pre-Finals.

parapooper · Post #163 » by **parapooper** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:51 pm

RSCD3_ wrote:Kyrie Irving has been a monster in the playoffs

24.7 PPG on 61.2 TS%, 5.5 APG per only 1.7 turnovers. 27.6 AST% w/ 7.6 TOV%

+11.6 On, +5.0 On/Off, 128 ORTG He's been great offensively in these playoffs

Where are you getting this? BBR now says his on/off is -11 while Delly is +9ish

SideshowBob · Post #164 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:00 am

RSCD3_ wrote:Kyrie Irving has been a monster in the playoffs

24.7 PPG on 61.2 TS%, 5.5 APG per only 1.7 turnovers. 27.6 AST% w/ 7.6 TOV%

+11.6 On, +5.0 On/Off, 128 ORTG He's been great offensively in these playoffs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01/on-off/2016/

therealbig3 · Post #165 » by **therealbig3** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:06 am

Kyrie should be brought off the bench imo. Be a superman version of what Barbosa is for the Warriors, while Delly provides defense and BBIQ to the starting lineup, and let LeBron/Love do their thing.

BasketballFan7 · Post #166 » by **BasketballFan7** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:24 am

Err, you don't change anything right now.

Colbinii · Post #167 » by **Colbinii** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:24 am

therealbig3 wrote:Kyrie should be brought off the bench imo. Be a superman version of what Barbosa is for the Warriors, while Delly provides defense and BBIQ to the starting lineup, and let LeBron/Love do their thing.

There is no reason for Kyrie not to start. He is a great player and you can't bring a player with his ego off of the bench. What they could do is run him a lot more with the 2nd unit, which is what you are recommending. However, I actually think the best use for him is with LeBron. Kyrie Irving's playmaking is vastly overrated and he does best with LeBron doing the playmaking.

gothehornets · Post #168 » by **gothehornets** » Thu May 19, 2016 12:54 am

therealbig3 wrote:Kyrie should be brought off the bench imo. Be a superman version of what Barbosa is for the Warriors, while Delly provides defense and BBIQ to the starting lineup, and let LeBron/Love do their thing.

'you dont fix what ain't broke' lets wait until they need adjustments before making any changes.

RSCD3_ · Post #169 » by **RSCD3_** » Thu May 19, 2016 1:05 am

SideshowBob wrote:
RSCD3_ wrote:Kyrie Irving has been a monster in the playoffs

24.7 PPG on 61.2 TS%, 5.5 APG per only 1.7 turnovers. 27.6 AST% w/ 7.6 TOV%

+11.6 On, +5.0 On/Off, 128 ORTG He's been great offensively in these playoffs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01/on-off/2016/

On the main page the numbers differ under the section Playoffs Play by Play

What's the reason for the difference shouldnt these two values be the same?

therealbig3 · Post #170 » by **therealbig3** » Thu May 19, 2016 1:23 am

I mean, they're beating teams like the Pistons, Hawks, and Raptors right now, but I'm thinking ahead to the long term, when they face the WC champ. In an ideal world, Delly is a better fit for the starting 5, and Kyrie is a better fit as a 6th man.

Pretty sure all the numbers bear that out, that Kyrie just isn't a good fit next to LeBron and Love. It's true, he's not a good enough playmaker, but he kind of insists on being one, and it bogs down an offense that would run a lot better if it was a 2 man game between LeBron and Love. And he's a poor defender too. Delly fits in as a 3 and D player that won't get in the way of the better offensive players doing their thing.

And Kyrie's mediocre point guarding wouldn't be a big deal with the 2nd unit, and in fact, he can shoot all he wants, much like Patty Mills or Leandro Barbosa, except he's far more talented than either of them and would instantly be the best 6th man in the league.

Again, I'm just saying, in an ideal world, that's how I would play it.

SideshowBob · Post #171 » by **SideshowBob** » Thu May 19, 2016 1:27 am

RSCD3_ wrote:
SideshowBob wrote:
RSCD3_ wrote:Kyrie Irving has been a monster in the playoffs

24.7 PPG on 61.2 TS%, 5.5 APG per only 1.7 turnovers. 27.6 AST% w/ 7.6 TOV%

+11.6 On, +5.0 On/Off, 128 ORTG He's been great offensively in these playoffs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01/on-off/2016/

On the main page the numbers differ under the section Playoffs Play by Play

What's the reason for the difference shouldnt these two values be the same?

Yeah BBR's main page for the players is listing the wrong On/Off for all players. I've gone through the raw +/- and PbP to check - the actual ON/OFF page is correct.

rich316 · Post #172 » by **rich316** » Thu May 19, 2016 1:43 am

Kyrie + 2nd unit seems like a natural fit, but that makes him turn into the worst version of himself - the ball-stopping chucker who destroys your offensive flow. He's much better next to another primary playmaker (Delly or Lebron) and feeding off of the opportunities they create. Lebron is a much better leader of the 2nd unit.

yoyoboy · Post #173 » by **yoyoboy** » Thu May 19, 2016 3:43 am

I mean Kyrie has been playing fantastic lately. Just ask Raptors fans who besides LeBron hurt them the most yesterday. I really don't see why you would switch things up and demote him to the bench, thus reducing this team's overall ceiling in the process.

Dupp · Post #174 » by **Dupp** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:42 am

I feel like kyries defense had been a lot better the last four games...

Dupp · Post #175 » by **Dupp** » Thu May 19, 2016 7:09 am

Lebron was really robbed of finals mvp last year....

LeBron James Leads Both Teams - NBA Finals
PPG 35.8
APG 8.8
RPG 13.3
>>1st to lead in all categories in Finals history

Without LeBron James on the floor this series.
JR Smith 0/9 FG
Delly 0/7 FG
J. Jones 0/3 FG
Shumpert 0/2 FG
Total 0/21 FG

Highest Pct of Team Points Finals History.
1993 Michael Jordan 38.4%
2015 LeBron James 38.3%

He put up 35.8, 8.8 + 13.3 vs iggys 16.3, 5.8 + 4.....

I understand winners get a lot more credit and its almost impossible to win as a loser but it wasnt even close between lebron and anyone else on either team. He should have 3.

datstockton · Post #176 » by **datstockton** » Thu May 19, 2016 4:36 pm

Evading the language filter

dreamshake · Post #177 » by **dreamshake** » Thu May 19, 2016 5:13 pm

Dupp wrote:Lebron was really robbed of finals mvp last year....

I understand winners get a lot more credit and its almost impossible to win as a loser but it wasnt even close between lebron and anyone else on either team. He should have 3.

I'm actually glad he didn't get it. It would have become the #1 go-to ammunition for critics/haters. Any attempt to discuss LeBron's career would get spammed with comments about "participation trophies" and how he's coddled by the league/media.

I'm also happy Igoudala won it. I always felt bad for him that he was just so obviously miscast in Philly as a #1 guy and criticized for not being that. He's a great player that just wasn't suited for that role and it's nice to see him get recognition for doing what he does. It was also nice to see them give it to the guy that actually played the most valuable role to the winning team instead of just handing it to Steph because of media narrative, when he actually didn't play well in that series.

Of course my preference would be for a Cavs win and LBJ getting another one. Maybe this year if everything goes right . . .

therealbig3 · Post #178 » by **therealbig3** » Thu May 19, 2016 5:26 pm

I think LeBron's performance in the Finals last year tends to get overrated tbh. In games 1-3, I agree, he was fantastic. But once GS made their adjustments, LeBron really needed to be more effective offensively, and while it's true that he didn't have much help, he was also given a lot of wide open jumpers by the GS defense, and he couldn't do anything with it. His inability to shoot was on display in the 2nd half of that series, and while you can't blame him for much, you really can't give him too much credit overall. He was putting up huge raw numbers as a result of his USG, but his team pretty much got destroyed in the last 3 games, while he was pretty ineffective offensively.

I think Curry should have won FMVP.

JulesWinnfield · Post #179 » by **JulesWinnfield** » Thu May 19, 2016 5:28 pm

The voting for finals mvp last season was a total cluster-bleep in general. Lebron was as deserving as any loser ever, but if you are just dead set on giving it to a winning player it still should have been Curry. He was still clearly the best Warrior in the series and was generally terrific outside of that poor shooting game 2. The fact that he didn't even receive a single vote is utter nonsense. I think the voting was a total catastrophe last year

MisterHibachi · Post #180 » by **MisterHibachi** » Thu May 19, 2016 5:37 pm

Steph didn't receive votes because the voters didn't want LeBron to get it. The ones who wanted to give it to a Warriors player probably switched their votes to Iggy once they realized LeBron would win if they split the vote, and Iggy probably had more supporters than Steph. It's basically impossible no one thought Steph deserved a vote.