RealGM 2025 Greatest Peaks Project #4 — 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon

[Joao Saraiva]

I'm sticking with 64 Russell, 87 Magic and 2023 Jokic as my vote for this one, before I forget to record a voting post.

Spoiler:

Voting Post

Reiterating my post for earlier spots and try to get more involved in the conversation. We've seen Lebron and Kareem go so far, but I still think these guys should be in the running.

The root idea here is that I think Russell's defensive impact is unprecedented stuff and that the dominance Boston exerted there with fairly weak offense (indeed, the WORST offense in the 64 regular season, among the 9 teams) is quite impressive to me. They killed the boards, they crushed it on D and they were really, really unremarkable on O. But it worked. Even if that strategy doesn't really work in the post-Russell eras, it did at the time, and that's vaguely insane. I feel like Jokic's inclusion is reasonably clear, even if one disagrees. That 2023 season was wild. With Magic, he was leading best-in-league-history kind of offenses and still crushing it with Old Kareem and without him. If not for the HIV situation, I feel like the first half of the 90s would have been very, very different, particularly as he developed his shot and his post game and was just putting people on an island and murdering them.

Obviously, decent amount of subjectivity involved in any of these things. The other nominees, guys like Duncan and Jordan and so forth, I can certainly see arguments for them (and there are some well-articulated defenses of their candidacy), but I wanted to generate some discussion about Russell's defensive impact and non-scorers, and then efficient-scoring playmakers and such.

Player #1: Bill Russell 1964

Best defense we've ever seen. Led the league in rebounding in the RS and then again in the PS (and went from like 25 to 27 rpg). Captained the team to a title with his dominant performance, after leading his team to the best record in the RS. We've never seen anything like Russell's era-relative impact defensively, nor anything like his team dominance. I don't subscribe to the idea that we should ignore earlier eras due to the differences between then and now, and Russell's run is the most dominant in league history, authored on the back of what he did as a rebounder and defender (and passer, at that).

Player #2: Magic Johnson 1990

Not quite Magic's scoring peak, but on top of his usual, he was bombing 3s, crushing it at the line, was a dominant playmaker, fully matured in his post game. One of his MVP seasons, and well-earned. An absolute unit leading another insane offense in his first season without Kareem.


Player #3: Nikola Jokic 2023

The wildest offensive RS we've ever seen, IMHO. A 25/12/10 season on 70% TS that turned into 30/14/10 still on 63% TS en route to a title and Finals MVP. Should have been the MVP. An insane mix of post game, shooting ability, court vision, rebounding and so forth.

HM: 2000 Shaq, 91 Jordan, 2016 Steph, 03 Duncan.

If one of my votes goes in (and I really hope Hakeem 94 does) I was gonna bring Jokic to the table! Glad you did and hope he can make the list soon enough, I think not being in the top 10 would not be fair to his game. Dude has impressed me out of nowhere! If someone in 2020 told me he'd have Jordanesque/LeBronesque 5 years in a row I would be very skeptic at least.

[tsherkin]

If one of my votes goes in (and I really hope Hakeem 94 does) I was gonna bring Jokic to the table! Glad you did and hope he can make the list soon enough, I think not being in the top 10 would not be fair to his game. Dude has impressed me out of nowhere! If someone in 2020 told me he'd have Jordanesque/LeBronesque 5 years in a row I would be very skeptic at least.

94 Hakeem is a very interesting choice, for sure. And yeah, Jokic definitely deserves some love. He's been utterly bonkers.

[tsherkin]

In regards to the era bias debate, If anythingh, i feel it that if you actually believe in all eras being equal and everyone being judged relative to their compwtition and in-era impact signals comparision (which begs the question of which signals across eras when stats are so sparse the longer ago you go) we should see the likes of mikan in everyone's top 5 and russel as a near unarguable top 1 and questions about his offense or how much value his defense would lose with more spacing irrelevant

Yeah. It raises the issue of how we evaluate changes and evolutions in league ability, breadth of the game / increase in talent pool and all that stuff, right? There are difficult questions involved. And that'll forever be the issue as the league moves forward, because each future era builds on what happened before. And now that there's a lot more money in the league than there was decades ago, and that talent is international, and so forth, things are very, very different than they were when certain players were in the league.

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

There are visible differences from the 80s and 90s to now, no doubt. Some of them are structural in terms of rules. For example, modern players are directly allowed to cheat when they dribble these days. We also have a very different approach to shooting, and as a result of the spacing most teams enjoy, there's a very different environment as far as shooting near the basket against a lot of teams. Defense is very different. But also when we look back at earlier-era squads like the 80s Celtics and Lakers, and the 90s Bulls, we start to see the early signs of spacing when they had corner 3pt shooting guards. Ainge, Scott/Cooper, Paxson/Kerr, right? The Jazz, too. They opened things up with shooters. The 94 Rockets with Horry. The 2000-02 Lakers with Horry as well. Later to be seen with Hedo and Shard alongside Dwight as an evolution. Ibaka, etc.

There are obvious strategic differences and obvious changes to skill profile in how guys are selected at positions. And that's above and beyond your usual talent cycle.

It's a really complex topic. And there's a good deal of recency bias to how people evaluate things, and then also some degree of nostalgia in others. Like, Mikan could only do what he could do, right? He had the competition and rules environment he did... and was dominant enough to force the league to change the rules. He was hella efficient in his own time, with the coaching and training tools that he had. He experienced some injuries and other things which probably wouldn't have limited him as much in today's game, and his shooting form and offensive approach likely would look different in today's game. Spacing would assuredly be different, etc, etc.

So it's hard to look at them absolutely and say "this is who they were relative to" anything other than their own time. And in Mikan's time, he was a 3x scoring champion, lived on the All-NBA team and in the All-Star game, crushed it at drawing fouls, was SAVAGELY dominant at shooting inside relative to everyone else (opened his career with 3 straight seasons of >= 120 2FG+), was insanely efficient over those years (pair of 300+ TSAdd seasons over his first 3 seasons) and was still strongly so after his third year after the league widened the key on him. Couple of MVPs, bunch of titles.

By any measure, he was a dominant monster. He was the first dominant superstar of the league.

So yeah, he was nuts. He deserves some recognition. And whether he'd play the same way now or not, well, probably not, but how much does that really matter?

[GeorgeMarcus]

67 Wilt

[70sFan]

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

The leap from the 1980s to 2020s is significantly bigger than from the 1960s to the 1980s, that is what baffles my mind every time I discuss these things...

[falcolombardi]

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

The leap from the 1980s to 2020s is significantly bigger than from the 1960s to the 1980s, that is what baffles my mind every time I discuss these things...

League exploded in popularity starting roughly in the 80's with the league making it to cable, bird/magic, jordan nike campaigns and culminating with the 92 olympics

Most of the media, writers, etc around the league have been players from roughly these 80's/90's period or grew up watching this period

That probably goes a long way to explain why the discourse around nba almost always centers starting around this period

[tsherkin]

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

The leap from the 1980s to 2020s is significantly bigger than from the 1960s to the 1980s, that is what baffles my mind every time I discuss these things...

Just as a quick look:

1965: 47.9% TS, 93.6 ORTG (b-ref estimate)
1985: 54.3% TS, 107.9 ORTG

So there's a +6.5% shift in TS% and +14.3 ORTG

2025: 57.6% TS, 114.5 ORTG

There's a +3.3% shift in TS% and a +6.5 shift in average ORTG.

Statistically, confined to those measures, the shift between the mid-60s and the mid-80s is larger. Now, 65 to 85 is of course 20 years. The gap between 85 and 2025 is twice as long, so we've had the chance for a bit more cycle in terms of change and response, etc.

Naturally, the shift from the 80s to 40 years later encompasses a lot more stuff. Jets are normalized for all teams. Gear, training, access to medical treatment and diagnostics (unless you played for the Pelicans, I guess, who only recently got a physiotherapist on staff...), lots of changes. BIG tactical changes. Some significant changes to the rules, or in some cases, how the rules are enforced (carrying/palming, I'm looking at you...).

So the qualitative changes are quite a bit more significant between the two gaps, whereas the impact on raw efficiency and offensive production, not so much.

It's an interesting discussion to have, because there are tons of evolutions and the gaps are off different sizes. But the changes are still quite significant. Even from the 90s to now. Even from the early 2000s to now, really.

[KembaWalker]

In regards to the era bias debate, If anythingh, i feel it that if you actually believe in all eras being equal and everyone being judged relative to their compwtition and in-era impact signals comparision (which begs the question of which signals across eras when stats are so sparse the longer ago you go) we should see the likes of mikan in everyone's top 5 and russel as a near unarguable top 1 and questions about his offense or how much value his defense would lose with more spacing irrelevant

What actually seems to happem more often is a cut off point is set by everyone (usually around the merger or magic/bird/3 pt line arrival) which happens to coincide with the league growth in popularity and most alive and active fans of the league stsrting to watch basketball from this point in time

A lot more time has happened, more thinghs about the game have changed, the basketball height talent pool worldwide and in usa has grown more since the 80's generations that between the 60's to 80's but we keep "modern game" or "modern nba" perenially freezed as "from the 80's unto forever" amd everythingh before 80's (and its players achievements such as russel's or wilt's) arbitrary as lesser than those from the 80's/90's era right after

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

even more rarely, the leap from pre Warriors dynasty to now

[eminence]

Are you participating on the voting process of this project or nah. I have seen you post numerous time but couldn't figure out what was your pick.

I am not. I find my participation in most projects too erratic to enjoy the process.

That make more sense why I couldn't remember your voting ballot in previous thread.

May I ask what would your top 10 Peak Look like if you were to participate in this project.

Sure, broad criteria:
-Lean more towards an era-relative approach
-I have very wide/loose tiers, I can see reasonable criteria where my 10-15 guys could be ranked #1
-Given individual play isn't radically different I like to pick seasons where a player saw some team success too, but didn't give 100 hours of thought on seasons picked here
-Off the top

Top 10:
'03 Duncan
'65 Russell (fair sized window here depending on how I'm feeling about the '65 Sixers)
'13 James
'91 Jordan
'00 Shaq
'94 Olajuwon
'04 Garnett
'87 Johnson
'17 Curry
'67 Chamberlain

HM (not necessarily #11):
??? Mikan - not bothering to rank today

'77 KAJ/'77 Walton/'86 Bird/'23 Jokic/'25 SGA the next 5 in some order. Expecting Jokic or SGA to author a season in the next few that'll put them in the top 10, but neither has fully put it together yet imo.

[tsherkin]

even more rarely, the leap from pre Warriors dynasty to now

This is a fair point. The last half decade or so has seen more change than we have in most of the preceding 40 seasons as spacing and the return of tempo have really taken hold on the heels of what the Warriors had done and all that.

[70sFan]

We admit the leap from the 50's to 60's, from the 60's to late 70's but rarely from the 80's to now

The leap from the 1980s to 2020s is significantly bigger than from the 1960s to the 1980s, that is what baffles my mind every time I discuss these things...

Just as a quick look:

1965: 47.9% TS, 93.6 ORTG (b-ref estimate)
1985: 54.3% TS, 107.9 ORTG

So there's a +6.5% shift in TS% and +14.3 ORTG

2025: 57.6% TS, 114.5 ORTG

There's a +3.3% shift in TS% and a +6.5 shift in average ORTG.

Statistically, confined to those measures, the shift between the mid-60s and the mid-80s is larger. Now, 65 to 85 is of course 20 years. The gap between 85 and 2025 is twice as long, so we've had the chance for a bit more cycle in terms of change and response, etc.

Naturally, the shift from the 80s to 40 years later encompasses a lot more stuff. Jets are normalized for all teams. Gear, training, access to medical treatment and diagnostics (unless you played for the Pelicans, I guess, who only recently got a physiotherapist on staff...), lots of changes. BIG tactical changes. Some significant changes to the rules, or in some cases, how the rules are enforced (carrying/palming, I'm looking at you...).

So the qualitative changes are quite a bit more significant between the two gaps, whereas the impact on raw efficiency and offensive production, not so much.

It's an interesting discussion to have, because there are tons of evolutions and the gaps are off different sizes. But the changes are still quite significant. Even from the 90s to now. Even from the early 2000s to now, really.

Good point about the efficiency numbers, but I don't think it tells the whole story. The game was played in a very similar manner throughout the 1965-85 period, with some minor changes here and there in style and officiating. 1985 to 2025 is almost like a different sport.

Besides, I don't think you can just look at the raw numbers when 1980s offenses were clearly inflated by the two major things that made drastic spikes in the ORtg numbers:

1. The addition of three point line: 103.8->105.3 spike (+1.5 in one season)
2. The introduction of illegal defense rule: 105.5->106.9 spike (+1.4 in one season)

You can interpret it differently and just accept that the players became much better offensive players within 4 seasons (+3.1 difference), but I don't think it is a coincidence that these two rules (ESPECIALLY illegal defense rule) catalized this rapid improvement of offensive efficiency. I mean, the difference of +10 between 1965 and 1979 would be still quite notable, but it's closer to the +6.5 mark.

We have to remember that the league did gradual changed favoring offenses (until this season I think) that ultimately led us to the ridiculous early 2020s seasons.

[tsherkin]

Good point about the efficiency numbers, but I don't think it tells the whole story.

I agree, which is why I expanded, heh. There's a lot more to things than just that.

I think Kemba's point about the last couple of years is pretty good, though, because the biggest shift in style has happened basically since the last of Golden State's titles. Otherwise, it's been at least REASONABLY similar to earlier eras (especially inside the 3pt era). The big 3pt boom is inside that frame as well, and the major pace shift.

1. The addition of three point line: 103.8->105.3 spike (+1.5 in one season)
2. The introduction of illegal defense rule: 105.5->106.9 spike (+1.4 in one season)

Sure, this traces back to my point about the 40-year gap versus the 20-year gap allowing for more action and response.

[f4p]

The leap from the 1980s to 2020s is significantly bigger than from the 1960s to the 1980s, that is what baffles my mind every time I discuss these things...

Just as a quick look:

1965: 47.9% TS, 93.6 ORTG (b-ref estimate)
1985: 54.3% TS, 107.9 ORTG

So there's a +6.5% shift in TS% and +14.3 ORTG

2025: 57.6% TS, 114.5 ORTG

There's a +3.3% shift in TS% and a +6.5 shift in average ORTG.

Statistically, confined to those measures, the shift between the mid-60s and the mid-80s is larger. Now, 65 to 85 is of course 20 years. The gap between 85 and 2025 is twice as long, so we've had the chance for a bit more cycle in terms of change and response, etc.

Naturally, the shift from the 80s to 40 years later encompasses a lot more stuff. Jets are normalized for all teams. Gear, training, access to medical treatment and diagnostics (unless you played for the Pelicans, I guess, who only recently got a physiotherapist on staff...), lots of changes. BIG tactical changes. Some significant changes to the rules, or in some cases, how the rules are enforced (carrying/palming, I'm looking at you...).

So the qualitative changes are quite a bit more significant between the two gaps, whereas the impact on raw efficiency and offensive production, not so much.

It's an interesting discussion to have, because there are tons of evolutions and the gaps are off different sizes. But the changes are still quite significant. Even from the 90s to now. Even from the early 2000s to now, really.

Good point about the efficiency numbers, but I don't think it tells the whole story. The game was played in a very similar manner throughout the 1965-85 period, with some minor changes here and there in style and officiating. 1985 to 2025 is almost like a different sport.

Besides, I don't think you can just look at the raw numbers when 1980s offenses were clearly inflated by the two major things that made drastic spikes in the ORtg numbers:

1. The addition of three point line: 103.8->105.3 spike (+1.5 in one season)
2. The introduction of illegal defense rule: 105.5->106.9 spike (+1.4 in one season)

You can interpret it differently and just accept that the players became much better offensive players within 4 seasons (+3.1 difference), but I don't think it is a coincidence that these two rules (ESPECIALLY illegal defense rule) catalized this rapid improvement of offensive efficiency. I mean, the difference of +10 between 1965 and 1979 would be still quite notable, but it's closer to the +6.5 mark.

We have to remember that the league did gradual changed favoring offenses (until this season I think) that ultimately led us to the ridiculous early 2020s seasons.

well we see the same thing in modern times.

the 2018 season had an ORtg basically the same as the mid-80s to mid-90s period. 108.6. and then in 5 years it was 114.8. +6.2 in 5 years! and another +0.5 the next season. that's why i laugh when people try to tell me it's talent expansion that we're seeing such amazing offenses. that doesn't happen in 5 years.

of course, we often see this debate framed as looking in the changes in ORtg, but in theory if there was more talent/better coaching, it shouldn't be any less likely to be defensive talent/coaching, so not sure why ORtg necessarily even applies (other than basketball does tend to be a sport where more talent results in more scoring as we see from youth to HS to college to NBA basketball). but of course, after the 80's, we saw a 15 to 20 year decline in ORtg, while plenty of international talent was being added and very little expansion was happening after 1996.

international talent hasn't really exploded that much recently. most of that work was done in the 2000 and early 2010's if i'm remembering the chart correctly. a lot of the players were literally still the same players in the league in 2018. and even 3PA only went from 29 to 34 in that time. even with the typical 35% 3 to 40% 2 trade-off, that's, 0.25 points per shot, so about 1.25 ORtg boost. and we got +6.2! the gap from the 1999 lockout low of 102.2 to 2018's 108.6 is 6.4. so we saw the same change in 5 years of a relatively stable talent pool than we did in 20 years from a season in the midst of the most isoball heavy, not taking 3's, playing back-to-back-to-backs because of the lockout season all the way up to 2018 when the league had already heavily adopted the 3 point shot (this is the rockets and warriors competing for titles after all).

[tsherkin]

of course, we often see this debate framed as looking in the changes in ORtg, but in theory if there was more talent/better coaching, it shouldn't be any less likely to be defensive talent/coaching,

It's an assumption that the coaching can adapt to create effective defense as much as offensive changes can alter the game, though. And it doesn't appear to be true. There appears to be lag, and then an eventual innovation (like we saw from Pops, and later from Thibs).

so not sure why ORtg necessarily even applies (other than basketball does tend to be a sport where more talent results in more scoring as we see from youth to HS to college to NBA basketball). but of course, after the 80's, we saw a 15 to 20 year decline in ORtg, while plenty of internal talent was being added and very little expansion was happening after 1996.

Sure, and pace was slowing down considerably as well without a huge explosion in 3PAr. Superstars begin to age without a huge talent wave riding right behind them. A lot of post-centric offenses which weren't super brilliant. A lot of Riles and JVG slowing the league down. There was a strategic shift towards avoiding easy points in transition, and teams were emphasizing action in the post. Illegal defense rules made it possible to put your guy on an elbow island and let him have at it, so they did. And then the league pulled in the 3pt line, and Hakeem got a spacer 3/4... and then MJ came back. And after he retired, we got Duncan and Shaq for years, and both of them benefited from Horry at one time or another, but at some point, that was a defining element for why league ORTGs weren't growing. There was no real strategic innovation, and a GREAT deal of emphasis placed on isolation play (first in the post, and later from guards).

[AEnigma]

2025 #4 Greatest Peak Result: 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon



I recorded 22 ballots for this thread. The 22 voters were:
Elpolo_14, trelos6, Top10alltime, Verticality, Busywithbball, Djoker, IlikeSHAIguys, metta-tonne, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, Ol Roy, capfan33, Joao Saraiva, falcolombardi, homecourtloss, tsherkin, VanWest82, ceoofkobefans, Samurai, OldSchoolNoBull, rk2023, and AEnigma.
If you voted but do not see your name listed, please let me know; always possible that I missed someone.

No player won a majority of first place ballots; however, Hakeem clutched out the head-to-head against all other named players. 1994 was selected as his peak season by a similarly narrow majority of ballots expressing a preference (8-6-1 over 1993). The top five respective head-to-head records are recorded below, with more thorough vote breakdowns among the top three than normal because of how close the polls were.

Hakeem Olajuwon wins 13 to 6 over Wilt Chamberlain.
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 12 to 8 over Bill Russell.
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 10 (AEnigma, Top10alltime, rk2023, Elpolo_14, capfan33, falcolombardi, OhayoKD, Ol Roy, Verticality, and Joao Saraivo) to 9 (Djoker, Samurai, VanWest82, One_and_Done, homecourtloss, trelos6, ceoofkobefans, OldSchoolNoBull, and tsherkin) over Shaquille O’Neal (Busywithbball, metta-tonne, and ILikeSHAIGuys did not articulate a definite preference between the two).
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 11 (AEnigma, rk2023, capfan33, falcolombardi, Ol Roy, Verticality, Joao Saraivo, OldSchoolNoBull, Djoker, trelos6, and VanWest82) to 10 (Busywithbball, metta-tonne, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, ILikeSHAIguys, Top10alltime, Elpolo_14, homecourtloss, ceoofkobefans, and tsherkin) over Tim Duncan (Samurai did not articulate a definite preference between the two; Paulluxx9000 gave a late secondary vote to Duncan, and emn_010 gave a late secondary vote to Hakeem).

The #5 Greatest Peaks thread will open shortly.

[VanWest82]

You are free to rewatch the games. Here is game 1 for example:

Halfcourt possessions only with Duncan and Shaq on the floor, only looking at players who start on Shaq:

Spoiler:

1st Quarter

Possession 1: Bryant
Possession 2: Bryant
Possession 3: Bryant
Possession 4: Bryant
Possession 5: Bryant
Possession 6: Bryant
Possession 7: Bryant
Possession 8: Bryant
Possession 9: Bryant
Possession 10: Bryant
Possession 11: Bryant
Possession 12: Bryant
Possession 13: Duncan
Possession 14: Duncan
Possession 15: Duncan
Possession 16: Duncan
Possession 17: Duncan
Possession 18: Duncan
Possession 19: Rose

Shaq goes to the bench

2nd Quarter

Possession 1: Duncan
Possession 2: Duncan
Possession 3: Rose
Possession 4: Duncan

Duncan goes to the bench
Duncan comes back

Possession 5: Bryant
Possession 6: Bryant
Possession 7: Bryant
Possession 8: Bryant
Possession 9: Bryant
Possession 10: Bryant
Possession 11: Bryant
Possession 12: Bryant
Possession 13: Nobody, Shaq got too late
Possession 14: Duncan
Possession 15: Duncan
Possession 16: Duncan
Possession 17: Duncan
Possession 18: both Duncan and Rose stayed glued to Shaq

End of the half

3rd Quarter

Possession 1: Bryant (Duncan switched on Shaq)
Possession 2: Bryant
Possession 3: Bryant
Possession 4: Duncan
Possession 5: Duncan
Possession 6: Duncan
Possession 7: Duncan

Shaq goes to the bench

4th Quarter

Shaq comes back after a long break

Possession 1: Duncan
Possession 2: Duncan
Possession 3: Duncan
Possession 4: Duncan

Duncan goes to the bench
Duncan goes back

Possession 5: Duncan
Possession 6: Duncan
Possession 7: Duncan
Possession 8: Duncan
Possession 9: Duncan
Possession 10: Duncan
Possession 11: Duncan
Possession 12: Duncan
Possession 13: Duncan
Possession 14: Duncan
Possession 15: Duncan
Possession 16: Duncan
Possession 17: Duncan

Garbage time

I don't have the time to do it for all games, but in these 61 possessions Duncan was primarly on Shaq for 34 of them. Actually, Mark Bryant defended Shaq the most in the 1st half (but he didn't play much in the 2nd half), Rose almost didn't guard Shaq.

Granted, this is the game (along with G2) when Duncan defended Shaq the most, but you can't deny that he played straight on him for the majority of the game - including almost the whole 2nd half. Did Shaq face a lot of help defense in these possessions? In most cases, yeah - but that's always the case when you are the best player on the team.

I did game 5 so I can say I did my part, though just wrt to guarding Shaq

Robinson: 28 possessions, 16 touches, 2 doubles, 2/5 FGA, 2 drawn fouls, 1 assist, 3 turnovers, 0 off reb
Duncan: 29 possessions, 22 touches, 9 doubles, 3/9 FGA, 4 drawn fouls, 0 assist, 1 turnover, 1 off reb
Rose: 14 possessions, 10 touches, 2 doubles, 2/4 FGA, 0 drawn fouls, 1 assist, 0 turnover, 0 off reb

Notes:

1. I distinctly remember Rose guarding Shaq more but we're 2/5 and so far that's not what the tracking shows. In game 5, almost all his possessions defending Shaq were after DRob got in foul trouble.
2. Duncan had a lot of help both off ball and on the catch. Some were hard doubles, some digging in, lots of doubling to wall Shaq off from cutting or going for offensive rebounds which Spurs did a tremendous job of.
3. Shaq was most aggressive trying to score on Duncan and almost single-handedly put him in foul trouble. In fact, Duncan should have fouled out with 4 mins to go on an Horry drive that refs just swallowed their whistle.
4. Robinson did the best job as a deterrent; further DRob guarding and Duncan providing help seemed to be Spurs best option at least in this game.
5. Shaq was obviously playing hurt. Marv references at the start of the game that Shaq claims the foot is feeling better but he looked hobbled getting up and down the court.
6. Duncan was tremendous offensively despite the turnovers. He had very little help outside of Parker and Bowne first half and Daniels second half.
7. This is a lot of work and I'm not doing it again I wish i would've remembered to tag possession result in addition to everything else as I think that would've better illustrated Shaq's influence. Spurs gave up some buckets because they were so worried about Shaq cutting in the lane for position or going for rebounds and didn't guard the ball.

I agree with 2000 Shaq > 2002 Shaq, but the gap between Duncan and Shaq in 2002 is also quite massive, so I am not sure if I'd agree with the latter.

Anyway, I don't say that Duncan definitely peaked higher than Shaq, I just don't think it's such a slam dunk and I don't agree that 2002 is a good argument for Shaq.

For posterity, I also think Duncan had the better season in 02. A big part of that is Shaq got too big and dealt with injuries. That said, it's interesting to me that Shaq had slightly better net on-off and npi rapm in the regular season despite playing on the better team:

Shaq: +9.9 RS net on-off, 4th RS NPI RAPM, 2nd PS NPI RAPM
Duncan: +9.4 RS net on-off, 23rd RS NPI RAPM, 4th PS NPI RAPM

This is hardly conclusive but interesting nonetheless.

I also think it's interesting that a very clearly hobbled version of Shaq was able to give Duncan (and everyone else) so much trouble to the point that it wasn't outright obvious to me anyway who was having the greater impact in the close out game.

[VanWest82]

Hakeem Olajuwon wins 10 (AEnigma, rk2023, capfan33, falcolombardi, Ol Roy, Verticality, Joao Saraivo, OldSchoolNoBull, Djoker, and trelos6) to 9 (Busywithbball, metta-tonne, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, ILikeSHAIguys, Top10alltime, Elpolo_14, homecourtloss, and ceoofkobefans) over Tim Duncan (VanWest82, tsherkin, and Samurai did not articulate a definite preference between the two).[/list]

I've already alluded to this in multiple posts throughout the project, including my voting post itt, but just for the sake of clarity given it sounds like this one was really close, I'd rank 94 Hakeem over whatever version of Duncan (probably 03).

[70sFan]

So, since most of my recent posts about Shaq can be perceived as very negative, I decided to make a short post about one particular that made Shaq such a good player.

1. Off-ball game

When we think about off-ball players, we usually have guys like Reggie Miller or Steph Curry in mind - and for a good reason. Movement shooters are extremely valuable. They create space on the floor and force defenses to move all the time. It is not the only way to confuse defenses though and Shaq is the perfect example of that and it's not just caused by double teams in the post.

Let's take a look at this screenshot from the 2001 finals. The defense is set, everyone is guarded and there is no way to take advantage of that situation, right?



Well, you'd be shocked that it turned into Lakers dunk in 1 second:

Watch on YouTube

Shaq created open dunk in split second by just a quick off-ball move. It's very simple, yet extremely rare to see such scenarios. Of course this is not one-time play, Shaq did it consistently:

Watch on YouTube

These plays were against Dikembe Mutombo, 7'2 guys with insane length. Another example:

Watch on YouTube

The hard thing is that you just can't scheme against it, not on consistent basis. As long as you put semi-respectable perimeter players around Shaq, such baskets are inevitable.

Of course that as only one-trick would be very useful, but Shaq had far more than that.

In this possession, O'Neal hunted for this lob opportunity again, but the passer was defended tightly, so he came back with very good low post position, but his teammate moved the ball out of Shaq's zone. You may think that the Pacers succeeded, as they denied the inside opportunity, but Shaq just outworked his man inside, got a rebound over him and dunked on help defender like they were childs:

Watch on YouTube

This brings us another incredible dimension of his off-ball play - offensive rebounding. Shaq wasn't statistically the best offensive rebounder ever, but he was still very good (14.0 ORB% in 2000-01 postseasons across 39 games is fine, to say the least). He might be the best ever at converting these opportunities to inside points though. Just a few ridiculous examples below:

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Look here how he just grabed the rebound over Duncan (excellent rebounder with strong lower body) and found his teammate inside with the nice pass:

Watch on YouTube

Of course, there is his famous ability to establish deep position inside that is unmatched in the league history (maybe Artis Gilmore, but on a lower volume). Don't focus on the shot alone, take a look how hard he worked to get there:

Watch on YouTube

This time I will be kind for good old Mutombo and I won't show constantly repeated clips.He could do that even against massive dudes like old Sabonis:

Watch on YouTube

Granted, Sabonis mass gave him some resistance and sometimes it was just enough for help to come:

Watch on YouTube

but to be honest, that didn't happen too often.
In short - Shaq generated inside points against set defenses like nobody else in the league history and he didn't even have the ball in his hands. His off-ball activity also made fit him very nicely with perimeter creators like Kobe (or Penny).

Of course, his lob finishing ability (GOAT-level at that) could make him a potential great roll-man as well, but this part of the game wasn't utilized that much in the early 2000s.

I think I will stop now, but maybe I will come back with some of his defensive strengths (especially man defense), if anyone is interested of course.

[One_and_Done]

2025 #4 Greatest Peak Result: 1994 Hakeem Olajuwon



I recorded 22 ballots for this thread. The 22 voters were:
Elpolo_14, trelos6, Top10alltime, Verticality, Busywithbball, Djoker, IlikeSHAIguys, metta-tonne, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, Ol Roy, capfan33, Joao Saraiva, falcolombardi, homecourtloss, tsherkin, VanWest82, ceoofkobefans, Samurai, OldSchoolNoBull, rk2023, and AEnigma.
If you voted but do not see your name listed, please let me know; always possible that I missed someone.

No player established a majority of first place ballots; however, Hakeem clutched out the head-to-head against all other named players. 1994 was selected as his peak season by a similarly narrow majority of ballots expressing a preference (8-6-1 over 1993). The top five respective head-to-head records are recorded below, with more thorough vote breakdowns among the top three than normal because of how close the polls were.

Hakeem Olajuwon wins 13 to 6 over Wilt Chamberlain.
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 12 to 8 over Bill Russell.
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 10 (AEnigma, Top10alltime, rk2023, Elpolo_14, capfan33, falcolombardi, OhayoKD, Ol Roy, Verticality, and Joao Saraivo) to 8 (Djoker, Samurai, VanWest82, One_and_Done, homecourtloss, trelos6, ceoofkobefans, and OldSchoolNoBull) over Shaquille O’Neal (Busywithbball, tsherkin, metta-tonne, and ILikeSHAIGuys did not articulate a definite preference between the two).
Hakeem Olajuwon wins 10 (AEnigma, rk2023, capfan33, falcolombardi, Ol Roy, Verticality, Joao Saraivo, OldSchoolNoBull, Djoker, and trelos6) to 9 (Busywithbball, metta-tonne, OhayoKD, One_and_Done, ILikeSHAIguys, Top10alltime, Elpolo_14, homecourtloss, and ceoofkobefans) over Tim Duncan (VanWest82, tsherkin, and Samurai did not articulate a definite preference between the two).

The #5 Greatest Peaks thread will open shortly.

While I had thought Hakeem was slightly ahead 10 to 9, I note tsherkin subsequently listed Ducan as an HM, but not Hakeem. To my eyes that is a clear preference to Dunxan.
viewtopic.php?t=2469810&start=140#p119411312

[tsherkin]

...
In short - Shaq generated inside points against set defenses like nobody else in the league history and he didn't even have the ball in his hands. His off-ball activity also made fit him very nicely with perimeter creators like Kobe (or Penny).

Of course, his lob finishing ability (GOAT-level at that) could make him a potential great roll-man as well, but this part of the game wasn't utilized that much in the early 2000s.

I think I will stop now, but maybe I will come back with some of his defensive strengths (especially man defense), if anyone is interested of course.

Fantastic post, as usual, 70s!