A RealGM Scandal, and a Conversation about Projects

[homecourtloss]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

I hope messages like this are addressed, mods.

[GeorgeMarcus]

.

FWIW you are one of my favorite posters on the board. I always find your contributions to be extremely thoughtful and, in my experience, not the least bit combative. It speaks to a genuine/collaborative pursuit of knowledge I mentioned earlier ITT and elevates the quality of discussion substantially

As a Stat teacher, I'll also say this: it's nice how the strength of your content lies in the research you present while your conclusions are much more tentative. That's the sign of a true intellectual

[tsherkin]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

I hope messages like this are addressed, mods.

You have the same ability to hit the report function as anyone else, homecourt. Even separate from the fact that I addressed it 10 posts prior to you posting

[GeorgeMarcus]

I'm now wondering if Ohayo is the "mind" behind that MythNix account on Twitter that's psychotically anti-Jordan and pro-LeBron. My one interaction with that account was posting the WWII Japanese soldier meme and their response was very...Ohayo-ish

I thought it was him at first too, but then I searched "realgm discord" to see if anyone was talking about this on Twitter and the first result is someone telling Myth that Ohayo wants them to join his discord

CO. ME. DY.

Ohayo is truly Everything Everywhere All At Once

"Omnipresent" is the word they taught us in Catholic school

[tsherkin]

I thought it was him at first too, but then I searched "realgm discord" to see if anyone was talking about this on Twitter and the first result is someone telling Myth that Ohayo wants them to join his discord

CO. ME. DY.

Ohayo is truly Everything Everywhere All At Once

"Omnipresent" is the word they taught us in Catholic school

"Ubiquitous" is another good one.

[Ron Swanson]

I will say, as someone who was still thinking of jumping in once the Jordan/Lebron crap died down (I did the same in 2022), I think restarting the peaks project too early (within the next month or so) is probably a poor idea. Risks a great deal of backlash and the pendulum swinging the complete other way due to this situation still being fresh in everyone's minds. I think taking a year off and revisiting in either 2026 or 2027 (5 years since the last) is appropriate under a revised set of rules and conditions.

And for anyone saying that perma-bans aren't appropriate here due to "losing the input of good posters" and implying that everyone's being too sensitive with "differing viewpoints", I'm sorry, but that's some masterclass projection. As others have alluded to and co-signed, this kind of sad, sociopath behavior does absolutely nothing but stifle discussion when this board should in theory be an alternative to the more casual basketball discourse on the general board. Removing immature, toxic posters makes me more likely to want to participate in the next peaks project from the get-go, if anything.

[homecourtloss]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

He's not usually a troll, but his posts in this thread were pretty poor.

He kept posting over and over again how this was only a problem because of the fact Jordan didn't win. There's literally proof of prior projects where that happened and everything was fine.

Didn't seem to mind at all what ohyo and enigma were doing.

So because I don’t agree with you they are “pretty poor”? My position is that the people providing evidence are upset that Jordan wasn’t winning/didn’t win and therefore provided evidence. If this were not the case, there would not be any reporting of anything. Mods took action but there wouldn’t be any action absent of evidence if Jordan weren’t losing.

My other position was that the project should continue with someone else taking the lead and there can be a message on the original thread explaining things and then we continue.

[homecourtloss]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

I hope messages like this are addressed, mods.

You have the same ability to hit the report function as anyone else, homecourt. Even separate from the fact that I addressed it 10 posts prior to you posting

I did report but wanted to highlight this behavior.

[tsherkin]

I did report but wanted to highlight this behavior.

I cannot stress enough how that is the opposite of what you're supposed to do. Use the report function and leave it there.

[TheGOATRises007]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

He's not usually a troll, but his posts in this thread were pretty poor.

He kept posting over and over again how this was only a problem because of the fact Jordan didn't win. There's literally proof of prior projects where that happened and everything was fine.

Didn't seem to mind at all what ohyo and enigma were doing.

So because I don’t agree with you they are “pretty poor”? My position is that the people providing evidence are upset that Jordan wasn’t winning/didn’t win and therefore provided evidence. If this were not the case, there would not be any reporting of anything. Mods took action but there wouldn’t be any action absent of evidence if Jordan weren’t losing.

My other position was that the project should continue with someone else taking the lead and there can be a message on the original thread explaining things and then we continue.

That's not what happened nor what I took issue with. You and I have disagreed plenty of times on here before and I never took issue. I will post your words in quotes

"not sure what the "evidence" is and who provided this evidence, but the peaks project was providing data and thoughts and information better than what other projects in the past have provided. It's an absolute shame that we're going to stop it because for the most part people are just upset that certain posters were posting rankings that they didn't like. There were a few posters were very vocal about this right from the beginning."

You stated that. You took the position that the project was only stopped because of the result of Jordan not being 1st. I gave you 2 examples how this occurred in past projects and those projects went on normally. You didn't say anything in response to that.

"or, because certain people are not just satisfied with making accusations or whatever but they also need the results to be canceled too since a certain player isn't number one"

There were people vocal about alt accounts and the discord bit prior to this project even beginning as well. Numerous people said this, but again this position you're taking doesn't make sense. There's threads before where LeBron won over Jordan. Those projects went on normally nor were the projects cancelled.

"we should go even further than that – make sure if Jordan is involved in the project at all, make sure he's number one, and then the rest of the discussion can take place without people getting upset."

You stated 3 times how you think this only happened because Jordan lost despite me giving you evidence of this not being the case.

You also seem to doubt the evidence in place and agreed in asking for proof of said evidence or letting the accused defend themselves which in turn to me is mocking the OP and the work they conducted before issuing this announcement.

This will be the last time I quote you so as to not derail the thread, but I don't think your posts were made in good intention and I don't think they were fair to the OP.

[jjgp111292]

Do the forum a favor and ban homecourtloss; he's another one of the trolls.

He's not usually a troll, but his posts in this thread were pretty poor.

He kept posting over and over again how this was only a problem because of the fact Jordan didn't win. There's literally proof of prior projects where that happened and everything was fine.

Didn't seem to mind at all what ohyo and enigma were doing.

So because I don’t agree with you they are “pretty poor”? My position is that the people providing evidence are upset that Jordan wasn’t winning/didn’t win and therefore provided evidence. If this were not the case, there would not be any reporting of anything. Mods took action but there wouldn’t be any action absent of evidence if Jordan weren’t losing.

My other position was that the project should continue with someone else taking the lead and there can be a message on the original thread explaining things and then we continue.

I mean you gotta look at this in a macro, big picture level. The people behind this did this specifically to skew the votes against Jordan, and their antagonistic behavior towards that fanase has lore on an embarrassing amount of basketball spaces. Their entire modus operandi is to be the opps of Jordan fans! So of course when they do something specifically to outvote MJ, the people whom they've been antagonizing who have long suspected their shenanigans are gonna be the whistleblowers.

That's like saying the ants were motivated by the anteater eating their leader. Um...



It was fine when the anteater was just standing there looking scary; then he started eating ants!

[Ol Roy]

And for anyone saying that perma-bans aren't appropriate here due to "losing the input of good posters" and implying that everyone's being too sensitive with "differing viewpoints", I'm sorry, but that's some masterclass projection. As others have alluded to and co-signed, this kind of sad, sociopath behavior does absolutely nothing but stifle discussion when this board should in theory be an alternative to the more casual basketball discourse on the general board. Removing immature, toxic posters makes me more likely to want to participate in the next peaks project from the get-go, if anything.

Well said. This diversionary tactic has been demonstrated in this thread, but also happens generally and contributes to thread death.

When bad posting etiquette is called out, the response of offenders is to sidestep the actual objection (the poor behavior) and instead claim they are being persecuted for their views.

And they do that because it seems to be an accepted escape hatch from consequences. I agree that stricter moderation is needed, to reiterate my call earlier in the thread. People have a right to their opinions, even their bad opinions. The issue arises when they can't accept that others won't come around to their views, and so they feel they have the right to derail and dominate the discussions. Sort of a virtual heckler's veto.

[One_and_Done]

I would also suggest delaying the peaks project until after the top 100 project.

I'd also reiterate that a non-mod should run future projects, preferably a poster who doesn't take themselves too seriously. For all that people are appropriately describing these 2 as having had an unhealthy obsession about the results, the other end of the spectrum can be just as bad. I find it hard to know if some of the posts criticising them are satire or not. The talk of this being 'hallowed ground', and a 'serious' matter, etc. It's a basketball forum that should form a small part of your life. If you really feel that invested, on either end of the spectrum, then I'm not sure you're the right person to dispassionately run a project. At work the best supervisors are the people who don't actually want to be supervisors, because they've got enough stuff of their own to get on with.

I mean this with no malice, but some posters on here need a less is more approach to replying. There are times a long reply is merited, but some of the replies I'm seeing could have been said with a quarter of the length. Like, you do you, but I'm not reading all that.

[jjgp111292]

I would also suggest delaying the peaks project until after the top 100 project.

I'd also reiterate that a non-mod should run future projects, preferably a poster who doesn't take themselves too seriously. For all that people are appropriately describing these 2 as having had an unhealthy obsession about the results, the other end of the spectrum can be just as bad. I find it hard to know if some of the posts criticising them are satire or not. The talk of this being 'hallowed ground', and a 'serious' matter, etc. It's a basketball forum that should form a small part of your life. If you really feel that invested, on either end of the spectrum, then I'm not sure you're the right person to dispassionately run a project. At work the best supervisors are the people who don't actually want to be supervisors, because they've got enough stuff of their own to get on with.

I mean this with no malice, but some posters on here need a less is more approach to replying. There are times a long reply is merited, but some of the replies I'm seeing could have been said with a quarter of the length. Like, you do you, but I'm not reading all that.

I don't really think it's anything deeper than "Hey, this is a respected place that has produced great and influential discussion and it sucks to see psychos muddying the waters." And I think taking the time to run a message board project that spans several months already requires a higher-than-average dedication to the forum.

[LukaTheGOAT]

Unpopular opinion:

To me this is more of an indictment off the mods than AE or OhayoKD. What took so long for something that was obvious?

[Special_Puppy]

Unpopular opinion:

To me this is more of an indictment off the mods than AE or OhayoKD. What took so long for something that was obvious?

I think OKD was clearly suspicious but I didn’t suspect AE of any wrongdoing tbf

[One_and_Done]

Unpopular opinion:

To me this is more of an indictment off the mods than AE or OhayoKD. What took so long for something that was obvious?

I don't really want mods interfering with the intelligent exchange of ideas, but some of the conduct in the RPOY project was so absurd that it merited at least input.

If a project runner is as unobjective as Enigma clearly was, which I criticised at the time, and is letting such ridiculous posters as Kola participate, then they probably aren't suited to run a project. Why is a poster who posts stuff like this being allowed to participate? (Via mail in ballot for 6 months, on an obviously absurd pretext).

viewtopic.php?t=2390527&start=220#p117169483

It was a pretty obvious tell as to the good faith of the person involved.

[Doctor MJ]

Unpopular opinion:

To me this is more of an indictment off the mods than AE or OhayoKD. What took so long for something that was obvious?

I mean, are you reading the thread before you post? We didn't have hard evidence until now, so they didn't get banned until now.

[Doctor MJ]

Just so people know:


I'm looking to give people at least through tomorrow evening before consolidating the suggestions that people have for what to do going forward, but don't forget that those suggestions are the actual purpose of this thread.

I'm also going to say that while I'm not looking to police this thread for off-topic-ness, and I do want to be sensitive to people having high emotions, it's not useful to suggest bans for people here based on finding them annoying.

[ShotCreator]

Even the post explaining the banning process dignified too many bad faith exceptions to how this has gone.

Doc, I recommend not toiling with this and posting evidence. No need. It just opens the door some sort of argument for them.

This isn’t a trial, as someone said. No one had a problem with the realgm process up to this point.