(Lock Thread)The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Playoffs & Off-Season Thread -(NO PERSONAL ATTACKS & BAITING)

[Ian Scuffling]

Good article from The Ringer regarding Lebron and the mis-management by the front office these past few years. It is really a shame.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/8/15/24220953/lebron-james-los-angeles-lakers-paris-olympics-2024

[Ainosterhaspie]

I watched this piece with Isiah and Magic on TV last night and it made me laugh because they were talking about how much they liked each other and respected each other and got along and cheered for each other. Completely demolished the fake narrative that the league was so competitive because they all hated each other blah blah blah. Meanwhile, in reality, a bunch of the stars got along just fine and we're normal adults, not the raving lunatics people like to pretend they were.

People want to go after LeBron for getting along with his contemporaries like it's something novel and unheard of and a sign of a soft league when the reality is quite the opposite.

[zimpy27]

I watched this piece with Isiah and Magic on TV last night and it made me laugh because they were talking about how much they liked each other and respected each other and got along and cheered for each other. Completely demolished the fake narrative that the league was so competitive because they all hated each other blah blah blah. Meanwhile, in reality, a bunch of the stars got along just fine and we're normal adults, not the raving lunatics people like to pretend they were.

People want to go after LeBron for getting along with his contemporaries like it's something novel and unheard of and a sign of a soft league when the reality is quite the opposite.

Isiah and Magic were famously close friends..

There was meant to be a rift between Isiah and Jordan, which is why Isiah wasn't on the Dream Team. Is that what you meant?

[Ainosterhaspie]

I watched this piece with Isiah and Magic on TV last night and it made me laugh because they were talking about how much they liked each other and respected each other and got along and cheered for each other. Completely demolished the fake narrative that the league was so competitive because they all hated each other blah blah blah. Meanwhile, in reality, a bunch of the stars got along just fine and we're normal adults, not the raving lunatics people like to pretend they were.

People want to go after LeBron for getting along with his contemporaries like it's something novel and unheard of and a sign of a soft league when the reality is quite the opposite.

Isiah and Magic were famously close friends..

There was meant to be a rift between Isiah and Jordan, which is why Isiah wasn't on the Dream Team. Is that what you meant?

No. I just hear so much people talking like you have to hate the other guy to beat him and it's somehow a knock on a player if he's chummy with a competitor, meanwhile one of the greatest winners of an era past was very chummy with multiple top competitors. Magic and Bird managed to get along well off the court too.

The whole narrative that you have to hate everyone to win is just ahistorical nonsense, and that was driven home to me as I watched the show.

That isn't to say there weren't real beefs at the time, they just weren't a necessary part of the recipe of fierce, memorable competition and winning then and they aren't now.

[homecourtloss]

Just in the past week, I’ve seen many posts containing some specific dog whistles of “I don’t take into consideration longevity,” “longevity isn’t important to me,” etc., but it’s interesting to see a combination of longevity with peaks within that longevity. Take a look at the rORtg of playoff series, for example. When charted out, the sheer breadth of longevity with peaks within that longevity puts into stark relief what it means to be able to continually be elite in multiple NBA environments with multiple casts that are different from one another.

[Colbinii]

Just in the past week, I’ve seen many posts containing some specific dog whistles of “I don’t take into consideration longevity,” “longevity isn’t important to me,” etc., but it’s interesting to see a combination of longevity with peaks within that longevity. Take a look at the rORtg of playoff series, for example. When charted out, the sheer breadth of longevity with peaks within that longevity puts into stark relief what it means to be able to continually be elite in multiple NBA environments with multiple casts that are different from one another.

The whole not caring about longevity is just admitting that yes, the value LeBron James has provided to the NBA far outweighs Jordan/Bird/whoever. But then the arguments end up breaking down because 8 years of one level vs 14 years of a similar level is just not equal in terms of total goodness/production provided.

Like, what exactly is the rationale for not saying 2020 is Prime LeBron James, 2008 is Prime LeBron James, and that is 13 MVP+ (More like Top 10 Peak level) caliber seasons.

But hey, retiring for 1.75 years somehow doesn't matter in any way

I'm a very logical thinking person. When I assess basketball, I try to take out all emotion. And in doing so, I am just stuck being unable to discuss things.

It's the same with American Politics. There is a literal cult where it's followers wear "Dictators Day One" T-shirts. How can you ever have a rational discussion with someone like that about the good of a country or a society?

[Djoker]

Nice post. I gave you a like.

To be fair though, the Jordan and Lebron graphs look comparable. Lebron has more peaks but also more valleys. The career average rORtg is +5.6 for Jordan and +5.0 for Lebron. And Jordan's teams had better rORtg against good teams (filtering for 5+ SRS opposition) while also having less offensive talent. Of course the body of work is edge Lebron as he played more series.

[homecourtloss]

In this chart below, the squares are LeBron, the red circles are Jordan, the purple star is Magic, the yellow X is Curry, the green triangles are Nash, and the blue diamond is Jokic. Magic and LeBron are on the opposite ends of defenses faced. Calculating rORtg takes this into account, but it’s still interesting to see.

[zimpy27]

Yabusele to 76ers for vet min


Pelinka sitting with thumb in mouth doing nothing

[nzahir]

Yabusele to 76ers for vet min


Pelinka sitting with thumb in mouth doing nothing

Oragnization is failing Bron and AD

If theres no trade made prior to the season and nothing decently big made by the deadline, Bron and AD should just demand out

Still no backup C is a huge failure by Pelinka. Not sure how he hasn't been criticized more harshly

I am expecting a trade for at least a backup C this month though

[zimpy27]

Galaxy brain trade that makes Lakers contenders, if not favorites..

DLo+Vincent+LAL29FRP
for
CamJ


COmes with a *wink wink* where Nets buyout Simmons for $30m, Lakers give him $5.2m MLE.

Simmons, Reaves, CamJ, LeBron, Davis -- Christie, Knecht, Vando, Rui, Wood


Simmons would be the absolute ideal starting PG for defense on this team, he can also take backup 5 minutes.

[Colbinii]

LeBron is starting to look really freaking good with rORTG in the post-season. Holy ****.

[homecourtloss]

LeBron is starting to look really freaking good with rORTG in the post-season. Holy ****.

Here we see a visualization of all the playoff series Jokic, LeBron, Curry, Jordan, Nash, and Magic have played. From left to right it is Nikola Jokić in blue LeBron in brown, curry in yellow, Jordan in red, Nash, in green, and magic in purple.



And here we see the +8, +12, +15, +18, and +20 series.

[D.Brasco]

Alright, if Tom Brady is out here dunking at 47, LeBron is going to be dunking through his 70s

Read on Twitter

[zimpy27]

I've become pretty comfortable with the idea of Lakers making a trade at deadline.

Lakers already have a lot of diverse players that Redick can look at to find the best combination of role players to surround Reaves-LeBron-Davis. Ham did the same thing but he just didn't have the coaching IQ to land on the right lineups.

By the deadline Redick will know which lineups are most effective with LeBron+Davis and with one of them on the bench.

[therealbig3]

Alright, if Tom Brady is out here dunking at 47, LeBron is going to be dunking through his 70s

Read on Twitter

lol to be fair, that was like an 8 foot rim.

[nzahir]

I've become pretty comfortable with the idea of Lakers making a trade at deadline.

Lakers already have a lot of diverse players that Redick can look at to find the best combination of role players to surround Reaves-LeBron-Davis. Ham did the same thing but he just didn't have the coaching IQ to land on the right lineups.

By the deadline Redick will know which lineups are most effective with LeBron+Davis and with one of them on the bench.

Lol it seems like you are now in the coping phase

It is UNACCEPTABLE to go into the reg season without a better backup C than Hayes (and Wood needs to be alongside a guy like AD to work)

A Lavine deal is likely there at the deadline (if he is healthy....)

Cam Johnson I am unsure of due to competition

Seems like the Pels want to just roll the year with BI and if they are a top 3-4 seed in the west, maybe they just gamble with him or pay him the big money and move on from CJ?

Grant will definitely be there as he should be the last resort, if any

[zimpy27]

I've become pretty comfortable with the idea of Lakers making a trade at deadline.

Lakers already have a lot of diverse players that Redick can look at to find the best combination of role players to surround Reaves-LeBron-Davis. Ham did the same thing but he just didn't have the coaching IQ to land on the right lineups.

By the deadline Redick will know which lineups are most effective with LeBron+Davis and with one of them on the bench.

Lol it seems like you are now in the coping phase

It is UNACCEPTABLE to go into the reg season without a better backup C than Hayes (and Wood needs to be alongside a guy like AD to work)

A Lavine deal is likely there at the deadline (if he is healthy....)

Cam Johnson I am unsure of due to competition

Seems like the Pels want to just roll the year with BI and if they are a top 3-4 seed in the west, maybe they just gamble with him or pay him the big money and move on from CJ?

Grant will definitely be there as he should be the last resort, if any

Haha pretty much coping. I was annoyed at Rob but without the emotions I se the logic.

I do think it makes sense to keep the team consistent while bring in Redick and a new coaching staff.
The strength of the existing roster is that it is loaded with archetypes around Reaves/LeBron/Davis that Redick can play around with:
Stretch big (Wood), a 3rd on-ball guy (DLo), movement shooter (Knecht), 3+D wing (Christie), POA defender (Gabe), Elite wing defender (Vando), Iso scorer wing (Rui), rim running big (Hayes), young guys that could pop (Bronny, JHS, Lewis)

JHS was great in the G league, I think he leaps to being a rotation PG.
Vando and Gabe were injured all season, they will be better with health.
Wood was awful under Ham, worst season je ever had.
Redick could make this team a lot better depending on the system.


Anyway, I think it's smart to go in with this team and then make upgrades of archetypes that work in Redick's system.

[nzahir]

I've become pretty comfortable with the idea of Lakers making a trade at deadline.

Lakers already have a lot of diverse players that Redick can look at to find the best combination of role players to surround Reaves-LeBron-Davis. Ham did the same thing but he just didn't have the coaching IQ to land on the right lineups.

By the deadline Redick will know which lineups are most effective with LeBron+Davis and with one of them on the bench.

Lol it seems like you are now in the coping phase

It is UNACCEPTABLE to go into the reg season without a better backup C than Hayes (and Wood needs to be alongside a guy like AD to work)

A Lavine deal is likely there at the deadline (if he is healthy....)

Cam Johnson I am unsure of due to competition

Seems like the Pels want to just roll the year with BI and if they are a top 3-4 seed in the west, maybe they just gamble with him or pay him the big money and move on from CJ?

Grant will definitely be there as he should be the last resort, if any

Haha pretty much coping. I was annoyed at Rob but without the emotions I se the logic.

I do think it makes sense to keep the team consistent while bring in Redick and a new coaching staff.
The strength of the existing roster is that it is loaded with archetypes around Reaves/LeBron/Davis that Redick can play around with:
Stretch big (Wood), a 3rd on-ball guy (DLo), movement shooter (Knecht), 3+D wing (Christie), POA defender (Gabe), Elite wing defender (Vando), Iso scorer wing (Rui), rim running big (Hayes), young guys that could pop (Bronny, JHS, Lewis)

JHS was great in the G league, I think he leaps to being a rotation PG.
Vando and Gabe were injured all season, they will be better with health.
Wood was awful under Ham, worst season je ever had.
Redick could make this team a lot better depending on the system.


Anyway, I think it's smart to go in with this team and then make upgrades of archetypes that work in Redick's system.

I can see that reasoning, but 2 things

1) The center stuff isn't excusable. A C who can handle bigger bodies and rebound is needed.
We blow leads when AD sits a lot of times due to no rim protection and what if AD misses like 5-10ish games or so? Can't allow bad losing streaks to happen if we want to contend

2) Trying basically the same core isn't horrible since we were a legit very good team, arguably a contender if we had a backup C and Vando. But it helps to have the main guys in during training camp.

Trading for a guy like Lavine may be difficult, but I can see it working out well since he would be similar to Dlo.

Trading for someone like BI would even be more difficult since he is a big change in terms of play style to who he would be mvoed for

Trading for a solid guy, but not a super high ceiling raiser, like CamJ or Grant only works if we are a near contender anyways with a top 5/6 seed already

[zimpy27]

Lol it seems like you are now in the coping phase

It is UNACCEPTABLE to go into the reg season without a better backup C than Hayes (and Wood needs to be alongside a guy like AD to work)

A Lavine deal is likely there at the deadline (if he is healthy....)

Cam Johnson I am unsure of due to competition

Seems like the Pels want to just roll the year with BI and if they are a top 3-4 seed in the west, maybe they just gamble with him or pay him the big money and move on from CJ?

Grant will definitely be there as he should be the last resort, if any

Haha pretty much coping. I was annoyed at Rob but without the emotions I se the logic.

I do think it makes sense to keep the team consistent while bring in Redick and a new coaching staff.
The strength of the existing roster is that it is loaded with archetypes around Reaves/LeBron/Davis that Redick can play around with:
Stretch big (Wood), a 3rd on-ball guy (DLo), movement shooter (Knecht), 3+D wing (Christie), POA defender (Gabe), Elite wing defender (Vando), Iso scorer wing (Rui), rim running big (Hayes), young guys that could pop (Bronny, JHS, Lewis)

JHS was great in the G league, I think he leaps to being a rotation PG.
Vando and Gabe were injured all season, they will be better with health.
Wood was awful under Ham, worst season je ever had.
Redick could make this team a lot better depending on the system.


Anyway, I think it's smart to go in with this team and then make upgrades of archetypes that work in Redick's system.

I can see that reasoning, but 2 things

1) The center stuff isn't excusable. A C who can handle bigger bodies and rebound is needed.
We blow leads when AD sits a lot of times due to no rim protection and what if AD misses like 5-10ish games or so? Can't allow bad losing streaks to happen if we want to contend

2) Trying basically the same core isn't horrible since we were a legit very good team, arguably a contender if we had a backup C and Vando. But it helps to have the main guys in during training camp.

Trading for a guy like Lavine may be difficult, but I can see it working out well since he would be similar to Dlo.

Trading for someone like BI would even be more difficult since he is a big change in terms of play style to who he would be mvoed for

Trading for a solid guy, but not a super high ceiling raiser, like CamJ or Grant only works if we are a near contender anyways with a top 5/6 seed already

I think Wood has potential. He had a bad season yet he had awesome +\- with LeBron.
I think DLo+Christie+LeBron+Vando+Wood could be an excellent lineup without Davis.

LaVine could be the answer but his salary is hard to match. But you have to give up Rui to get LaVine, where as you can keep Rui if going for BI. I think BI is the much better player and he's 2 years younger. BI has intangibles, like he can defend 1-5 at an average level, he seems to perform well in playoffs and he provides rebounding pressure. I'd be going for BI even though the adaptation is bigger. I'd go for BI right now.

CamJ or Grant are tough trades because Lakers need to upgrade DLo to a playmaker in the playoffs primarily.