The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1)

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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1641 » by The-Power » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:03 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:This might be a bit off topic, but do you think that it's significant/there are reasons (other than injuries) why the "death lineup" hasn't been used against the cavs, and the Spurs?

As much as Kerr looks like the laid back neighbor everybody loves, he is not only ultra-competitive but also loves to play chess (figuratively speaking). I believe especially against San Antonio, he wants to hide some of his cards and the SBDS is definitely one of them.

Ultimately, it's a question of the personnel a team has. The Spurs like to play big but also have extrem flexibility in the line-ups they can potentially use - defensively and offensively. In this case, you usually stay big or let's say you don't go ultra-small in the RS because a) it's proven and more predictable and b) you want to have an ace up your sleeve come playoff-time. This means if it's not necessary (wasn't in the first and third game, in the second we missed Iggy anyway), there is no reason to give your opponent a chance to prepare for the most lethal line-up you have. Maybe the line-up ultimately doesn't work very well and you rob yourself of the chance to practice against certain line-ups but I'm positive the Warriors love their chances with the small line-up against any opponent who haven't had to deal with this line-up before. Cavaliers are a similar case although of course they had to deal with this line-up before. But without Love, without Frye and mostly without Irving who would all be crucial to the success or failure against this line-up in a potential finals re-match.

The Thunder, on the other hand, are a different case. Not because they can't harm the Warriors, they can, and not because it's unlikely they face each other in the playoffs, it is certainly possible. But unlike the Spurs or Cavs, what could they do with their available players anyway? There isn't much they could prepare for as they probably don't have the personnel to adjust properly and punish this line-up on offense or defense. This doesn't mean they can't have success against the SBDS but strategies like playing Durant at the 4 or 5 - where he would be guarded by Barnes or Green - isn't something innovative which requires previous testing. It's a logical move and either it works or not with solid preparations before the games. The Thunder don't have 2-3 scary perimeter defenders to throw at the Warriors, and while they might think about using Kanter against Green on offense, I'm sure the Warriors would love to have Kanter out there against the small unit on defense. Ultimately, they probably decide to fight fire with fire and see what Westbrook and Durant could get done with in a high paced game and against less rim protection. Could work, but it's not a tactical battle so you don't have to worry about showing most of your hand - as far as line-ups are concerned - in games before.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:Do you think that it will be used much more in the playoffs?

Yes.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1642 » by MyUniBroDavis » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:09 pm

The-Power wrote:
MyUniBroDavis wrote:This might be a bit off topic, but do you think that it's significant/there are reasons (other than injuries) why the "death lineup" hasn't been used against the cavs, and the Spurs?

As much as Kerr looks like the laid back neighbor everybody loves, he is not only ultra-competitive but also loves to play chess (figuratively speaking). I believe especially against San Antonio, he wants to hide some of his cards and the SBDS is definitely one of them.

Ultimately, it's a question of the personnel a team has. The Spurs like to play big but also have extrem flexibility in the line-ups they can potentially use - defensively and offensively. In this case, you usually stay big or let's say you don't go ultra-small in the RS because a) it's proven and more predictable and b) you want to have an ace up your sleeve come playoff-time. This means if it's not necessary (wasn't in the first and third game, in the second we missed Iggy anyway), there is no reason to give your opponent a chance to prepare for the most lethal line-up you have. Maybe the line-up ultimately doesn't work very well and you rob yourself of the chance to practice against certain line-ups but I'm positive the Warriors love their chances with the small line-up against any opponent who haven't had to deal with this line-up before. Cavaliers are a similar case although of course they had to deal with this line-up before. But without Love, without Frye and mostly without Irving who would all be crucial to the success or failure against this line-up in a potential finals re-match.

The Thunder, on the other hand, are a different case. Not because they can't harm the Warriors, they can, and not because it's unlikely they face each other in the playoffs, it is certainly possible. But unlike the Spurs or Cavs, what could they do with their available players anyway? There isn't much they could prepare for as they probably don't have the personnel to adjust properly and punish this line-up on offense or defense. This doesn't mean they can't have success against the SBDS but strategies like playing Durant at the 4 or 5 - where he would be guarded by Barnes or Green - isn't something innovative which requires previous testing. It's a logical move and either it works or not with solid preparations before the games. The Thunder don't have 2-3 scary perimeter defenders to throw at the Warriors, and while they might think about using Kanter against Green on offense, I'm sure the Warriors would love to have Kanter out there against the small unit on defense. Ultimately, they probably decide to fight fire with fire and see what Westbrook and Durant could get done with in a high paced game and against less rim protection. Could work, but it's not a tactical battle so you don't have to worry about showing most of your hand - as far as line-ups are concerned - in games before.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:Do you think that it will be used much more in the playoffs?

Yes.



Yeah that's what I was sorta thinking as well. Thinking about it, popovich is the last guy you want to have a "good look" at your secret weapon.

But just wondering, how much do you think we will see this lineup? Do you think it might even be used more than the starting lineup? I mean, I get that the team's lineups depend on who the opponents are fielding, but still.

I'm hoping the Warriors win just so fans can't go all 09 lebron on curry.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1643 » by The-Power » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:26 pm

MyUniBroDavis wrote:Yeah that's what I was sorta thinking as well. Thinking about it, popovich is the last guy you want to have a "good look" at your secret weapon.

I would say it's more about the players. I'm sure Pop knows what to do in theory and what strategies he would want to try, but players usually learn by doing. So competing against this line-up gives the players an opportunity to what goes wrong and what is effective and then you have Pop who can educate the players - already with an idea what it feels like to play them - in the video sessions.

MyUniBroDavis wrote:But just wondering, how much do you think we will see this lineup? Do you think it might even be used more than the starting lineup? I mean, I get that the team's lineups depend on who the opponents are fielding, but stil.

More than the starting line-up, no, I can't imagine that over the course of the playoffs. Maybe against the Mavericks who probably use Dirk as the Center a lot, maybe against the Thunder if they go all-in with small ball as well but not against the other teams. The Warriors are going to use regular line-ups - mostly with Bogut and Ezeli as well as Speights depending on what the team needs - most of the time unless a) it's not working, b) the Warriors see a chance to increase a lead in certain periods of the game, e.g. a few minutes before halftime or at the end of the 3rd or c) the Warriors are down in the 4th.

The more the Warriors struggle, the more often we're going to see the SBDS. So it depends more on how the Warriors perform rather than which line-up the other team runs with. While the opponents are responsible for how the Warriors perform to some extent, I don't see any opponent where Kerr would hesitate to use this line-up when the team struggles. Overall, I'd say something like 12 MPG with Green as the Center should be a reasonable number which will vary from game to game (although I could very well be wrong in my concrete prediction).
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1644 » by KyletheDingbat » Fri Apr 8, 2016 5:53 pm

Right now Curry stands a shade under 30ppg and he no longer has the highest PER ever. If his next three games go as his last handful has, where will you rank his season on the GOAT scale?
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1645 » by therealbig3 » Fri Apr 8, 2016 6:45 pm

KyletheDingbat wrote:Right now Curry stands a shade under 30ppg and he no longer has the highest PER ever. If his next three games go as his last handful has, where will you rank his season on the GOAT scale?


Depends on the playoffs.

The PER is an estimate of the box score value, and if it's around the same level as the other greats (a difference of 1 point in PER is basically nothing, for example), it's really not a big deal to me.

I still believe in his overall offensive impact to the point that if he has a great playoff run, it's still the GOAT peak for me.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1646 » by Dr Spaceman » Fri Apr 8, 2016 8:10 pm

SideshowBob wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:Once you look at the Warriors top lineups vs the Spurs top lineups, there's a very clear difference in favor of the Warriors. Spurs are comparable overall because of their bench, which isn't as much of a factor in the playoffs when the Warriors would play their top lineups for more minutes.


Spaceman pretty much covered the gist of my response. I'll add that I when rotations tighten we'll see a slight diminishing returns effect on the super high-end lineups (as well as the fact that opponents can hone-in on how to stop/slow particular lineups better in the playoffs when they play repeated games and are game-planning over 1.5 weeks for a single team at a time). Whereas Pop doesn't really have to cut his rotations at all and IMO has a larger and more dynamic tool-box to play with (though admittedly against this GSW that could be effectively meaningless).

That said from a broad perspective Krodis's point right above me frames the situation pretty solidly as well, so points taken.

therealbig3 wrote:


Dr Spaceman wrote:


This is amazing. Now that I've seen this this is something I've wanted all along. Gonna dig in right now

Have you guys seen this yet? Thread
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1647 » by SideshowBob » Sat Apr 9, 2016 1:13 am

MyUniBroDavis wrote:This might be a bit off topic, but do you think that it's significant/there are reasons (other than injuries) why the "death lineup" hasn't been used against the cavs, and the Spurs?

It was used for 5 minutes against the Spurs in all encounters combined (obviously Iguodala didn't play in the second one)
Wasn't used against Cleveland

It definitely wasn't bad when it was used, in that small sample size the net rating was 19.5, but despite the lower than usual net rating they still shot around 78% TS so I think they might have just turned it over a bit

To compare

It was the second most used lineup against the thunder, and they had a net rating of 45 against okc and 67.5 against the clippers.

Do you think that it will be used much more in the playoffs? (I mean like, rivalling how much the starting lineup plays?)


Haven't honed-in enough on this so I was going to go in the "avoid showing it off" direction as well but the Power framed it far better than I could have. Especially makes sense from the practical aspect of it; coaches/players can study game-tape all night long but the experience from the actual in-game situation has its own value.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1648 » by Nbafanatic » Sat Apr 9, 2016 5:44 pm

Curry needs to make his season average of five 3's a game to reach four hundred 3's in the season. What do you guys think to be more likely? The Warriors reaching 73 wins or Curry reaching 400 3's?
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1649 » by Mutnt » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:05 am

Ruh-roh
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1650 » by nikomCH » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:35 am

Steph's is probably going to lose all his records (PER, 400 3's, 50/40/90)

GSW still has a chance at 73 but I really think they lose to the Spurs unfortunately
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1651 » by therealbig3 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:38 am

He's a shade over 50% after tonight.

Can't even say it's the defense, he missed so many open looks that were in and out.

One thing I respect is that he doesn't really care about his numbers like that...he's still going to shoot. Good for him.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1652 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:38 am

It is fitting that it comes down to tomorrow's game for both teams the undefeated home record for the Spurs and the Warriors getting the record for wins in a season.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1653 » by RebelWithACause » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:43 am

Rough night for Curry.

Some tidbits:

- PER could drop under 31.

-50/40/90 in jeopardy, only 2 attempts above 0.50

-30 ppg seems gone, except for an explosion, needs 78 points in the last two games

- will probably break the +1000

- good chance at getting 72 or 73 wins
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1654 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:45 am

If they lost to the Spurs tomorrow would they even play there starters Wednesday? Would it even be worth it anymore to tie the record?
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1655 » by RebelWithACause » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:56 am

Curry now at:

29.8 / 5.5 / 6.7 on 66.5 % TS

Still the offensive RS GOAT peak for me, but not sure about overall anymore. Definitely still in the convo though. Have to think more on this.

Question:

Is it still the GOAT scoring season now, or does MJ 88 or Durant 14 have a case in your opinion?
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1656 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:11 am

No not GOAT scoring season if he doesn't average over 30 ppg. Would need to be closer to 33 ppg.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1657 » by RebelWithACause » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:17 am

JordansBulls wrote:No not GOAT scoring season if he doesn't average over 30 ppg. Would need to be closer to 33 ppg.


Ahh yeah, the famous treshold of 33 ppg to be the GOAT scorer.... :noway:
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1658 » by JordansBulls » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:20 am

RebelWithACause wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:No not GOAT scoring season if he doesn't average over 30 ppg. Would need to be closer to 33 ppg.


Ahh yeah, the famous treshold of 33 ppg to be the GOAT scorer.... :noway:

Need more than 30 ppg that is for sure
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1659 » by AceofSpades69 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:28 am

RebelWithACause wrote:Curry now at:

29.8 / 5.5 / 6.7 on 66.5 % TS

Still the offensive RS GOAT peak for me, but not sure about overall anymore. Definitely still in the convo though. Have to think more on this.

Question:

Is it still the GOAT scoring season now, or does MJ 88 or Durant 14 have a case in your opinion?

Don't think he's "in the convo" (meaning top 5) for GOAT RS at all. He was in the conversation at some point, though.
As for the GOAT scoring season, he'd need ~31ppg on >~65 TS% IMO. He's still in the race.
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Re: The Stephen Curry Thread (2015-16 Pt. 1) 

Post#1660 » by Asianiac_24 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:29 am

JordansBulls wrote:No not GOAT scoring season if he doesn't average over 30 ppg. Would need to be closer to 33 ppg.


If un-adjusted PPG is all that matters for GOAT scoring season, than I guess Wilt is the GOAT scorer, and 06 Kobe is a better scorer than 91-93 Jordan.

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