PC Board OT Thread Take 4 [No Politics]

[OhayoKD]

Well, he's off to a great start but it's debatable if he'll surpass Zidane much less put him up there with Pele.

In your own view or in general soccer fan perception? If this is the former, sure. If it's the latter, I wouldn't be shocked if he's already surpassed Zidane in many eyes.

It's like saying that Giannis surpassed Tim Duncan already, except even more extreme makes no sense to me.

keep in mind that forwards are more valuable than mids and scoring is a much bigger draw in soccer than it is in basketball.(consider how ronaldo vs messi was basically tied until like 3 years ago in the eyes of the world despite messi crushing cr7 in creation and ball-progression)
Simply put, many people are walking away thinking mbappe is already the best player in the world and seeing that he's scored as much as messi at the world cup at the age of 23, and that he scored a hattrick(and created the two pens) in a world cup final, and that he scored twice to win the previous world cup final, Mbappe is right now in a lane no player, ever, has run on for the event that everyone across the world watches.

he also benefits from seemingly instantly elevating monaco mid-season to an unlikely domestic win and ucl semi run, being voted the best player in ligue 1 for basically his whole career, making the first cl final for what was previously a european laughing stock(think of them as the pre-kawhi raptors), and scoring a shitton of goals(goals per game is ahead of messi and ronaldo iirc).

So no, Giannis vs Duncan probably isn't the right comparison here. It's more like(perception at least) Duncan, right after 2003, being seen as greater than Karl Malone.

[HeartBreakKid]

No strong position on whether its merited, but Mbappe isn't a bad bet here. Already on pace for having(at least via perception) the greatest international career ever(and if we're being honest that matters more to most people than club stuff), and isn't really facing much competition now as the best club player of his generation. 4 ballon dors, scoring a bunch more with this uber deep and talented french class and he's probably there, for better or worse

Well, he's off to a great start but it's debatable if he'll surpass Zidane much less put him up there with Pele.

In your own view or in general soccer fan perception? If this is the former, sure. If it's the latter, I wouldn't be shocked if he's already surpassed Zidane in many eyes.

What do you mean by general soccer fan? A casual one who just watches the World Cup, CL Finals and the annual big games?

A seasoned fan of the sport is not going to automatically think mbappe is better/greater than zidane.

I would not be surprised of Mbappe surpasses him but I think you're greatly underrating how iconic Zidane is. Mbappe is more topical (though Zidane is plenty in the press still). Zidane came from an age of football that is heavily romanticized.

How will Mbappe's legacy look when he starts hitting road bumps? He's going to get his lumps just like everyone else did.

[Dutchball97]

Zidane is very highly regarded by the the most dedicated soccer fans. I didn't even know he was rated this high but he's generally seen as the best French player ever over Platini and Henry, while also often being included in GOAT list top 10s.

[Jaivl]

Speaking as a Real Madrid follower who had a Centenario Zidane kit as a child... Zidane is overrated historically. I said it.

Zidane vs Neymar is a very real debate on my eyes.

[70sFan]

Speaking as a Real Madrid follower who had a Centenario Zidane kit as a child... Zidane is overrated historically. I said it.

Zidane vs Neymar is a very real debate on my eyes.

Zidane didn't have his best years in Real though, maybe outside 2002-03.

[Jaivl]

Speaking as a Real Madrid follower who had a Centenario Zidane kit as a child... Zidane is overrated historically. I said it.

Zidane vs Neymar is a very real debate on my eyes.

Zidane didn't have his best years in Real though, maybe outside 2002-03.

Oh, if we were talking strictly about Real Madrid Zidane he wouldn't even be better than, IDK, Patrick Vieira lol. Ofc he's a France first, Juve second, Madrid third player.

[70sFan]

Speaking as a Real Madrid follower who had a Centenario Zidane kit as a child... Zidane is overrated historically. I said it.

Zidane vs Neymar is a very real debate on my eyes.

Zidane didn't have his best years in Real though, maybe outside 2002-03.

Oh, if we were talking strictly about Real Madrid Zidane he wouldn't even be better than, IDK, Patrick Vieira lol. Ofc he's a France first, Juve second, Madrid third player.

Although I think I agree that Zidane is a bit overrated in historical talks, I still view him as one of the top 20-25 football players ever probably. I am a massive Zidane homer though, he's the first sportsman I became a huge fan of.

[HeartBreakKid]

Zidane didn't have his best years in Real though, maybe outside 2002-03.

Oh, if we were talking strictly about Real Madrid Zidane he wouldn't even be better than, IDK, Patrick Vieira lol. Ofc he's a France first, Juve second, Madrid third player.

Although I think I agree that Zidane is a bit overrated in historical talks, I still view him as one of the top 20-25 football players ever probably. I am a massive Zidane homer though, he's the first sportsman I became a huge fan of.

He's my favorite player of all time, edging out Drogba but he's very much a cult of personality. I guess this is what it is like to be a Kobe Bryant fan.


Even if a player like Mbappe is better than Zidane he would have to be better than him by a large amount for many fans of a certain generation to admit it.

[Dutchball97]

Zidane didn't have his best years in Real though, maybe outside 2002-03.

Oh, if we were talking strictly about Real Madrid Zidane he wouldn't even be better than, IDK, Patrick Vieira lol. Ofc he's a France first, Juve second, Madrid third player.

Although I think I agree that Zidane is a bit overrated in historical talks, I still view him as one of the top 20-25 football players ever probably. I am a massive Zidane homer though, he's the first sportsman I became a huge fan of.

Football is more difficult to compare across eras due to stats not being nearly as prominent as they are in American sports like basketball or baseball. Zidane around the 20-25 range sounds plausible to me but I wonder who you'd end up with ahead of him. After 10-15 guys I really start to struggle.

[Jaivl]

Oh, if we were talking strictly about Real Madrid Zidane he wouldn't even be better than, IDK, Patrick Vieira lol. Ofc he's a France first, Juve second, Madrid third player.

Although I think I agree that Zidane is a bit overrated in historical talks, I still view him as one of the top 20-25 football players ever probably. I am a massive Zidane homer though, he's the first sportsman I became a huge fan of.

Football is more difficult to compare across eras due to stats not being nearly as prominent as they are in American sports like basketball or baseball. Zidane around the 20-25 range sounds plausible to me but I wonder who you'd end up with ahead of him. After 10-15 guys I really start to struggle.

And even in-era.

We don't really know the comparative values of each role (eg. how much is a Zidane worth vs a Ronaldo, a Mauro Silva, a Cafú or a Kahn). We don't really know the splits between offense and defense (eg. Zizou is a surprisingly bad defender for such an athletic and clever player, how much does that detract from his offense).

Kinda just adds to football being such a magical sport.

[Jaivl]

In the words of Magnus Carlsen, "too weak, too slow".

(and that goes for BOTH teams, 153-137 win for the Legends)

You play chess?

Yeah I do/did, jaivl on Lichess

[MyUniBroDavis]

In the words of Magnus Carlsen, "too weak, too slow".

(and that goes for BOTH teams, 153-137 win for the Legends)

You play chess?

Yeah I do/did, jaivl on Lichess

Damn ur classical rating is crazy lol

I played a lot last year on chess.com but quit just cuz I was doing it too much, rook endgames were fun tho. I ended up making a ton of accounts tho, tried getting back into it for a bit recently and am completely washed now lmao

What openings did u use out of curiousity

[Jaivl]

You play chess?

Yeah I do/did, jaivl on Lichess

Damn ur classical rating is crazy lol

I played a lot last year on chess.com but quit just cuz I was doing it too much, rook endgames were fun tho. I ended up making a ton of accounts tho, tried getting back into it for a bit recently and am completely washed now lmao

What openings did u use out of curiousity

Some sort of english-catalan-ish structure with 1. c4 2. g6 as white, 2. g6 Sicilian + semi-slav or nimzo indian as black, nothing too complicated.

I kind of quit as well, sometimes I have to *actually* work and stuff, lol.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Yeah I do/did, jaivl on Lichess

Damn ur classical rating is crazy lol

I played a lot last year on chess.com but quit just cuz I was doing it too much, rook endgames were fun tho. I ended up making a ton of accounts tho, tried getting back into it for a bit recently and am completely washed now lmao

What openings did u use out of curiousity

Some sort of english-catalan-ish structure with 1. c4 2. g6 as white, 2. g6 Sicilian + semi-slav or nimzo indian as black, nothing too complicated.

I kind of quit as well, sometimes I have to *actually* work and stuff, lol.

I played the Vienna and the caro so that’s way more complicated than what I’d go for lmao

[Jaivl]

Damn ur classical rating is crazy lol

I played a lot last year on chess.com but quit just cuz I was doing it too much, rook endgames were fun tho. I ended up making a ton of accounts tho, tried getting back into it for a bit recently and am completely washed now lmao

What openings did u use out of curiousity

Some sort of english-catalan-ish structure with 1. c4 2. g6 as white, 2. g6 Sicilian + semi-slav or nimzo indian as black, nothing too complicated.

I kind of quit as well, sometimes I have to *actually* work and stuff, lol.

I played the Vienna and the caro so that’s way more complicated than what I’d go for lmao

God, I miss when I played the Vienna, just soooo many traps there...

Now I'm old and boring.

[Texas Chuck]

You guys are so smart. I play Settlers of Catan online lol. Chess is hard.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Some sort of english-catalan-ish structure with 1. c4 2. g6 as white, 2. g6 Sicilian + semi-slav or nimzo indian as black, nothing too complicated.

I kind of quit as well, sometimes I have to *actually* work and stuff, lol.

I played the Vienna and the caro so that’s way more complicated than what I’d go for lmao

God, I miss when I played the Vienna, just soooo many traps there...

Now I'm old and boring.

The copycat goes crazy lol, played like a 2200 once and they fell for it and almost pulled it off but got flagged cuz no increment smh

[MyUniBroDavis]

You guys are so smart. I play Settlers of Catan online lol. Chess is hard.

Honestly during the covid era there was a pretty huge chess boom in terms of a lot of variety streamers taking it up which led to me going into it


The difficulty of chess at a casual level is pretty overstated, a lot of people think it’s like hours and hours of memorization (which if ur playing the Sicilian like jaivl is, it is lol), but outside of openings where you can just go with simpler ones like I do, pattern recognition which just improves by playing a lot + trying to have a reason behind moves can bring you up to the top 20% pretty fast (I think that’s like 1500-1700 chess.com?)

A lot of like the nearly impossible chess feats like playing blindfolded or with like a minute in the clock aren’t too hard to learn once you get used to it but I have no idea how someone plays multiple games blindfolded that sounds insane

Once you get into like the high rating range like 1800+ (chess.com at least, idk how the ratings are for lichess) it spiked alot (which is why I’m not there lmao) but for like 800-1500 it’s 90% don’t F up imo

[Texas Chuck]

You guys are so smart. I play Settlers of Catan online lol. Chess is hard.

Honestly during the covid era there was a pretty huge chess boom in terms of a lot of variety streamers taking it up which led to me going into it


The difficulty of chess at a casual level is pretty overstated, a lot of people think it’s like hours and hours of memorization (which if ur playing the Sicilian like jaivl is, it is lol), but outside of openings where you can just go with simpler ones like I do, pattern recognition + being able to be purposeful with each move can bring you up to the top 20% pretty fast (I think that’s like 1500-1700 chess.com?)

A lot of like the nearly impossible chess feats like playing blindfolded or with like a minute in the clock aren’t too hard to learn once you get used to it but I have no idea how someone plays multiple games blindfolded that sounds insane

Here is the depth of my chess strategy:

any piece that crosses midcourt I hound back. But mainly I just relentlessly attack. I know zero formal opens/mid-games. I just play hyper aggressive in trying to pressure the king or barring that I target the rooks. But I'm just trying to force my opponent to have to react to me, rather than working their own attacks.

Works well enough against my kids, my dad, a couple friends who play, but I get absolutely worked by anyone who knows what they are doing. I tried reading some books/playing online after The Queens Gambit made it look cool, but then was like this is way too much work for something I don't care about mastering. Plus in my mid 40's its just way too late to be trying.

Settlers/hearts far more relaxing with enough strategy to suit me. If the US ever formally sanctions online poker and the sites can assure me its fair, I'd play that again too.

[MyUniBroDavis]

You guys are so smart. I play Settlers of Catan online lol. Chess is hard.

Honestly during the covid era there was a pretty huge chess boom in terms of a lot of variety streamers taking it up which led to me going into it


The difficulty of chess at a casual level is pretty overstated, a lot of people think it’s like hours and hours of memorization (which if ur playing the Sicilian like jaivl is, it is lol), but outside of openings where you can just go with simpler ones like I do, pattern recognition + being able to be purposeful with each move can bring you up to the top 20% pretty fast (I think that’s like 1500-1700 chess.com?)

A lot of like the nearly impossible chess feats like playing blindfolded or with like a minute in the clock aren’t too hard to learn once you get used to it but I have no idea how someone plays multiple games blindfolded that sounds insane

Here is the depth of my chess strategy:

any piece that crosses midcourt I hound back. But mainly I just relentlessly attack. I know zero formal opens/mid-games. I just play hyper aggressive in trying to pressure the king or barring that I target the rooks. But I'm just trying to force my opponent to have to react to me, rather than working their own attacks.

Works well enough against my kids, my dad, a couple friends who play, but I get absolutely worked by anyone who knows what they are doing. I tried reading some books/playing online after The Queens Gambit made it look cool, but then was like this is way too much work for something I don't care about mastering. Plus in my mid 40's its just way too late to be trying.

Settlers/hearts far more relaxing with enough strategy to suit me. If the US ever formally sanctions online poker and the sites can assure me its fair, I'd play that again too.

There’s a guy called gothamchess on YouTube, he’s pretty entertaining in the sense that he really treats it like a sports commentary so it got me into it in the first place. I was watching coverage of a bunch of gaming streamers have a tournament and it was just pretty funny seeing them rage lol

But yeah I think getting anywhere where u have like a title or something would probably be mastering it and that’s waaaayy too much work lol. Chess books are way to intense for me and the notation is still pretty confusing to me, like I can’t look at a chess notation of a game and clearly see the game or anything I can’t imagine how people do that as fast as they do lol