(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James- 23-24 NBA Thread - 40K POINTS+(Part 1)(NO INSULTING)

[MyUniBroDavis]

It comes down to this

We'll probably be something like a 5-6th seed at the end of the year, and the hope is gonna revolve around how bron and AD elevate in the playoffs in terms of any expectations in the postseason

If you don't think Bron and AD can be the best duo in the nba by a significant margin in the playoffs, which is a fair hope, then you shouldnt have any hope for the team in the first place lol

Record is gonna skid for a bit and everyone will think the house is falling down we'll go on a run and people will get too cocky then, it is what it is.

Bron not playing defense anymore whatsoever since the IST ended (other than vs OKC) is kind of nasty though lol

[dcstanley]

I’m not one to overly criticize Ham but it appears that he’s truly lost the plot. This starting lineup was DOA the second various reporters tweeted that it was a possibility. I’m just confused at what the theory of the lineup was: we already have a terrible halfcourt offense so why not start two of the worst offensive players in the league to juice the defense?

Another minor issue, is he just done with Christian Wood? Wood is no great shakes but he had some success early in the season playing with AD. For a team so desperate for viable two-way lineups, seems like going to some two big lineups with a spacing big could help the defense just by virtue of having some more size on the floor without sacrificing much offense. Wood has struggled offensively this season but he’s proven that he’s a capable scorer and you would think his shooting would regress to the mean.. and while supremely flawed defensively, he has similar weaknesses as Hayes who offers very little on either end.

I understand I wrote entirely too much about Christian Wood but idk it seems like he has more regular season upside than Vando or Hayes and yet he’s completely discarded from the rotation less than 30 games in.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I’m not one to overly criticize Ham but it appears that he’s truly lost the plot. This starting lineup was DOA the second various reporters tweeted that it was a possibility. I’m just confused at what the theory of the lineup was: we already have a terrible halfcourt offense so why not start two of the worst offensive players in the league to juice the defense?

Another minor issue, is he just done with Christian Wood? Wood is no great shakes but he had some success early in the season playing with AD. For a team so desperate for viable two-way lineups, seems like going to some two big lineups with a spacing big could help the defense just by virtue of having some more size on the floor without sacrificing much offense. Wood has struggled offensively this season but he’s proven that he’s a capable scorer and you would think his shooting would regress to the mean.. and while supremely flawed defensively, he has similar weaknesses as Hayes who offers very little on either end.

I understand I wrote entirely too much about Christian Wood but idk it seems like he has more regular season upside than Vando or Hayes and yet he’s completely discarded from the rotation less than 30 games in.

Wood not getting any minutes is really stupid considering we’re out there running hayes

Offensively, other than literally hedging Wood is better vs every other coverage, is better on offense in general, and defensively hayes isn’t exactly doing much either lol

The roster is decent but a lot of pieces like Vando and hayes can either be a nice situational players or a huge negative, and we’ve seen which way they’ve gone towards

[zimpy27]

I’m not one to overly criticize Ham but it appears that he’s truly lost the plot. This starting lineup was DOA the second various reporters tweeted that it was a possibility. I’m just confused at what the theory of the lineup was: we already have a terrible halfcourt offense so why not start two of the worst offensive players in the league to juice the defense?

Another minor issue, is he just done with Christian Wood? Wood is no great shakes but he had some success early in the season playing with AD. For a team so desperate for viable two-way lineups, seems like going to some two big lineups with a spacing big could help the defense just by virtue of having some more size on the floor without sacrificing much offense. Wood has struggled offensively this season but he’s proven that he’s a capable scorer and you would think his shooting would regress to the mean.. and while supremely flawed defensively, he has similar weaknesses as Hayes who offers very little on either end.

I understand I wrote entirely too much about Christian Wood but idk it seems like he has more regular season upside than Vando or Hayes and yet he’s completely discarded from the rotation less than 30 games in.

Wood not getting any minutes is really stupid considering we’re out there running hayes

Offensively, other than literally hedging Wood is better vs every other coverage, is better on offense in general, and defensively hayes isn’t exactly doing much either lol

The roster is decent but a lot of pieces like Vando and hayes can either be a nice situational players or a huge negative, and we’ve seen which way they’ve gone towards

I agree Wood should get play over Hayes. Trying to work out of it's a development thing..

Wood really plays best with starters.

Lakers really need a defensive starting guard to allow that to happen.

[MyUniBroDavis]

I’m not one to overly criticize Ham but it appears that he’s truly lost the plot. This starting lineup was DOA the second various reporters tweeted that it was a possibility. I’m just confused at what the theory of the lineup was: we already have a terrible halfcourt offense so why not start two of the worst offensive players in the league to juice the defense?

Another minor issue, is he just done with Christian Wood? Wood is no great shakes but he had some success early in the season playing with AD. For a team so desperate for viable two-way lineups, seems like going to some two big lineups with a spacing big could help the defense just by virtue of having some more size on the floor without sacrificing much offense. Wood has struggled offensively this season but he’s proven that he’s a capable scorer and you would think his shooting would regress to the mean.. and while supremely flawed defensively, he has similar weaknesses as Hayes who offers very little on either end.

I understand I wrote entirely too much about Christian Wood but idk it seems like he has more regular season upside than Vando or Hayes and yet he’s completely discarded from the rotation less than 30 games in.

Wood not getting any minutes is really stupid considering we’re out there running hayes

Offensively, other than literally hedging Wood is better vs every other coverage, is better on offense in general, and defensively hayes isn’t exactly doing much either lol

The roster is decent but a lot of pieces like Vando and hayes can either be a nice situational players or a huge negative, and we’ve seen which way they’ve gone towards

I agree Wood should get play over Hayes. Trying to work out of it's a development thing..

Wood really plays best with starters.

Lakers really need a defensive starting guard to allow that to happen.

It’s not like either of them play defense either if their in drop lol

[Fadeaway_J]

It comes down to this

We'll probably be something like a 5-6th seed at the end of the year, and the hope is gonna revolve around how bron and AD elevate in the playoffs in terms of any expectations in the postseason

If you don't think Bron and AD can be the best duo in the nba by a significant margin in the playoffs, which is a fair hope, then you shouldnt have any hope for the team in the first place lol

Record is gonna skid for a bit and everyone will think the house is falling down we'll go on a run and people will get too cocky then, it is what it is.

Bron not playing defense anymore whatsoever since the IST ended (other than vs OKC) is kind of nasty though lol

I think they can potentially be the best duo, but not by a significant margin. Certainly not enough to overcome the many structural flaws on the roster.

[Heej]

It's alright UniBro. Even Tim sounds like Ham is losing him

[khaltheball]

Wanted to add some potential optimism. AD n Bron imo clearly can still be the best or top 2-3 duo in the league and are the only ones in the top 8 in epm n top 10 in Lebron n other metrics. No other player on this team is a positive in epm. Or even a top 100
Player in the decent metrics. Reaves drop off defensively is alarming n bizarre almost but maybe it’s scouting ; needs to get in the weight room n on some special Juice if possible.

This team needs serious moves. However this dejounte news is prety exciting to me. Yes he’s not perfect but he’s improved his 3 ball this year and he’s elite midrange player n imo as good as we can get in two way pg play. He’s also on a ridiculously nice contract which maybe makes him too expensive from an asset cost but clearly can’t fit as a Af next to trae I think he can be better defensively as a pg and not a sg as he’s too skinny tbh. 17m this year + 24-25m next few years is very favourable deal imo. He’s also with klutch n a huge Bron Stan so I think he should be buying in more here. This maybe my favourite move I’ve seen .

Hawks gave up 3 frps right ? Unfortunately to the spurs who won’t help us at all but the team does have 2029 pick, 4 swaps ( which I’ve seen used as the base of some trades ); maybe can trade swaps for picks if needed but I think they have value regardless, n17 pick this year jhs hopefully who isn’t completely worthless , Christie? Doubt anyone wants him but maybe something

Think I’ve been wanting to hold on to reaves but his defensive decline n playmaking issues with vision make me hesitant too. Regardless maybe hawks could accept a deal based on reaves n everything LA I listed or Rui if for someo reason they like that list case like Pelinka does . Frustrates me even more that Pelinka extebded vando n did it at a time that he’s untradable this year because I could seee hawks valuing a vando + reaves n picks deal maybe . Rumours of hawks /trae wanting out if they fail and while I would love trae throwing lobs n passes to bron/AD no way we could afford him, dejounte contract is super cheap.

Hopefully Gabe Vincent value hasn’t dropped too much n it’s seen as a temporary injury. Because THEY COULD STILL get lavine with Murray lol because Murray makes so little . But admittedly I’m not sure about that . Anyway if one of Rui or reaves is out going for Murray they can use the remaining one n Dlo Rui Gabe for something . Wouldn’t mind a move for gafford or a a better two way wing ; I obv don’t know a lot depends on Murray’s price . But I think considering he was acquired for 3 frps and plays a spot most good teams have filled I think it’s not unrealistic to acquire him . Could his value if dropped to roughly 2 frps worth ? That leaves enough assets to make another move. Maybe even keep reaves as a 6th man and closer SG vs right line ups.

[Colbinii]

It comes down to this

We'll probably be something like a 5-6th seed at the end of the year, and the hope is gonna revolve around how bron and AD elevate in the playoffs in terms of any expectations in the postseason

How?

They aren't better than Minnesota/Denver/Dallas/LAC/OKC/ Sacramento. So, unless injuries happen, I have a hard time seeing this team finishing better than any of these teams. Even a team like NOP is more built for the Regular Season than the Lakers.

If you don't think Bron and AD can be the best duo in the nba by a significant margin in the playoffs, which is a fair hope, then you shouldnt have any hope for the team in the first place lol

That isn't the criticism though. The Criticism is that their #3, Reaves, is like a Top 100-ish player. Timberwolves have Towns/Conley/McDaniels who are all clearly better than Reaves. Denver has AG/MPJ/KCP as better players than Reaves. Clippers have James Harden as their 3rd best player

These teams are so much better, with so much more shooting and more talent in the actual playoff rotation, that the Lakers would need 2020 AD/LeBron to stand a chance. And what happens when Kawhi plays like he did last Post-Season [prior to injury]? That's matching any level of AD/LeBron we have seen since 2020.

Record is gonna skid for a bit and everyone will think the house is falling down we'll go on a run and people will get too cocky then, it is what it is.

Nah, the team has serious flaws to be considered a title contender. They need to make a move.

Bron not playing defense anymore whatsoever since the IST ended (other than vs OKC) is kind of nasty though lol

Yup. Can't expect him to be playing IST level for 4 straight games, let alone 7

[khaltheball]

Vandos issue is he also sucks at finishing so it’s not like he works that well cutting, he can’t shoot, is a normal passer, so there’s literally nothing there on offense

Yup.

He worked fine with Towns on the Wolves because, well, Towns spaces the floor as a 5. When you have LeBron and AD as relatively non-spacers, there really isn't room for Vando.

Maybe people don't get it, but this roster 3-7 is very weak. Guys like Prince, Reddish, Dlo, Hayes, Rui and Vanderbilt are all players you want as your 6-8 guys at best on a playoff rotation. The talent level is just so weak.

Denver is rolling out KCP/Gordon/MPJ as their 3-5 who compliment their stars perfectly, have varied skill-sets and are well-rounded players.

Boston just blows LAL out of the water. Imagine if they traded a 1st for White in 2022

Timberwolves have Towns as their 3rd best player and someone like Naz Reid is at the level of Reaves while their 4th best player, McDaniels, is better than Reaves.

Then teams like the Clippers and Thunder are simply better 3-8 with guys like Harden/Zubac/Mann/Westbrook and Williams/Dort/Wallace/Williams/Joe.

Mavericks are comparable to the Lakers with Williams/Lively/Hardaway Jr.

Suns are a mess. Houston is a year away but they have some nice pieces. Pelicans are talented but have some roster issues with fit.

So yeah, right now the Lakers are in a Mavericks/Lakers/Suns/Rockets/Pelicans/Warriors tier, and that goes to #11 in the West.

And don't sleep on the Grizzles. They can go 34-20 to finish out the season with 43 wins. 34-20 is LESS than their Win% the past 2 seasons.

So when is the move happening? Just bring in LaVine already. He is the most talented player they can get.

Or see if you can get some actual players who can impact a game like Kelly Olynyk. Call Portland about Jerami Grant and maybe you can get him AND keep your 1st for another move.

But this roster isn't going to cut it, and with 12 teams trying to truly win this year, you can't wait until February to make a move.

Vando has looked awful even worse than last year. And yes it’s telling the only teams who tried running him had shooting bigs in Denver n minny and even they moved off him. Can’t help but think : Paying vando 12m yr extension so he’s not tradable , Rui 17m Dlo 17m( this was the only deal of the three I didn’t mind cos figured that’s cheap enough for him); while Derrick white is on the Celtics for 18m is just infuriating. Yes he cost them 2 frps but still.

Vando is so bad at screen navigation and low impsvt post /rim defence that he doesn’t even provide monster defensive impact consistently. Though I disagree on the rebounding but I feel he should be crashing even more n getting more rebounds .

[Colbinii]

Vandos issue is he also sucks at finishing so it’s not like he works that well cutting, he can’t shoot, is a normal passer, so there’s literally nothing there on offense

Yup.

He worked fine with Towns on the Wolves because, well, Towns spaces the floor as a 5. When you have LeBron and AD as relatively non-spacers, there really isn't room for Vando.

Maybe people don't get it, but this roster 3-7 is very weak. Guys like Prince, Reddish, Dlo, Hayes, Rui and Vanderbilt are all players you want as your 6-8 guys at best on a playoff rotation. The talent level is just so weak.

Denver is rolling out KCP/Gordon/MPJ as their 3-5 who compliment their stars perfectly, have varied skill-sets and are well-rounded players.

Boston just blows LAL out of the water. Imagine if they traded a 1st for White in 2022

Timberwolves have Towns as their 3rd best player and someone like Naz Reid is at the level of Reaves while their 4th best player, McDaniels, is better than Reaves.

Then teams like the Clippers and Thunder are simply better 3-8 with guys like Harden/Zubac/Mann/Westbrook and Williams/Dort/Wallace/Williams/Joe.

Mavericks are comparable to the Lakers with Williams/Lively/Hardaway Jr.

Suns are a mess. Houston is a year away but they have some nice pieces. Pelicans are talented but have some roster issues with fit.

So yeah, right now the Lakers are in a Mavericks/Lakers/Suns/Rockets/Pelicans/Warriors tier, and that goes to #11 in the West.

And don't sleep on the Grizzles. They can go 34-20 to finish out the season with 43 wins. 34-20 is LESS than their Win% the past 2 seasons.

So when is the move happening? Just bring in LaVine already. He is the most talented player they can get.

Or see if you can get some actual players who can impact a game like Kelly Olynyk. Call Portland about Jerami Grant and maybe you can get him AND keep your 1st for another move.

But this roster isn't going to cut it, and with 12 teams trying to truly win this year, you can't wait until February to make a move.

Vando has looked awful even worse than last year. And yes it’s telling the only teams who tried running him had shooting bigs in Denver n minny and even they moved off him. Can’t help but think : Paying vando 12m yr extension so he’s not tradable , Rui 17m Dlo 17m( this was the only deal of the three I didn’t mind cos figured that’s cheap enough for him); while Derrick white is on the Celtics for 18m is just infuriating. Yes he cost them 2 frps but still.

Vando is so bad at screen navigation and low impsvt post /rim defence that he doesn’t even provide monster defensive impact consistently. Though I disagree on the rebounding but I feel he should be crashing even more n getting more rebounds .

Yeah, I don't think Vando is 100%. Look at this snapshot when he was Dennis Rodman-like in Minnesota.

This was me from January 31st, 2022.

I know most of you don't watch the team from the Land of 10,000 Lakes but Jared Vanderbilt is the perfect 4 next to Karl-Anthony Towns.

First of all, he is, without a doubt the best offensive rebounding non-center in the league and has an argument for the best offensive rebounder in the league [counting centers].

He is averaging 3.4 Oreb/G since getting consistent minutes [Starting game 4 of the season] and his Oreb% is 12.1%. Its a joy to watch him in today's NBA as he is a hawk and utilizes the spacing on the court as a weapon to cut through the lane for offensive rebounds. I have never seen someone do what he does on every single possession offensively.

Defensively he is extremely active, strong enough to hang with guys like LeBron but quick enough to defend larger 2's. He averages 1.5 steals per game and doesn't let his offensive rebounding get in the way of getting back defensively.

Extremely unique player in todays NBA.


Over 1 month later...

League Rankings

48th in +/- [Next to Caruso, P.J. Tucker, Bane and Mobley]
5th in Steals
9th in Offensive Rebounds [Only Centers ahead of him
24th in RAPTOR
32nd in EPM

[khaltheball]

I’m not one to overly criticize Ham but it appears that he’s truly lost the plot. This starting lineup was DOA the second various reporters tweeted that it was a possibility. I’m just confused at what the theory of the lineup was: we already have a terrible halfcourt offense so why not start two of the worst offensive players in the league to juice the defense?

Another minor issue, is he just done with Christian Wood? Wood is no great shakes but he had some success early in the season playing with AD. For a team so desperate for viable two-way lineups, seems like going to some two big lineups with a spacing big could help the defense just by virtue of having some more size on the floor without sacrificing much offense. Wood has struggled offensively this season but he’s proven that he’s a capable scorer and you would think his shooting would regress to the mean.. and while supremely flawed defensively, he has similar weaknesses as Hayes who offers very little on either end.

I understand I wrote entirely too much about Christian Wood but idk it seems like he has more regular season upside than Vando or Hayes and yet he’s completely discarded from the rotation less than 30 games in.

I’ve been ok with ham but this move has me baffled n seriously doubting if he has any intelligence. It’s not on him the roster has no good two way rose players but that move reeks of the dummies I see online saying ‘ just play cam + vando ( or rui)’ saying we can’t shoot anyway so might as well be good defense or just big ( for no reason cos not like Rui or vando use there size to much benefit ). Seriously gotta wonder why; vando has been abysmal this year even worse than last year. As bad as Dlo n reaves are atleast they’re not completely ignored offensively. I’d rather just trade offensively n hope n pray celtivs jack up too many threes n miss like they’re prone to. Having said that this roster is seriously flawed and I would like to see moves before Rui is even trade eligible in January because I think it should be obv by now it’s not working .

Though wood thing I’m not sure I blame ham on : wood has been awful but gotta wonder why him n hayes never get roll man opportunities at all. Seen Wood get on some of the coaches nerves. Vando is clearly not fully heskthy but even he was it doesn’t fix his or our issues sadly

[PistolPeteJR]

The Hayes experiment should have died after week 1 of the RS. He’s absolutely dreadful. I feel like the old man yelling at the clouds with this the last few months but it’s a big problem.

You think this is bad? When AD sits, we know what happens to the defense (and offense when shots aren’t falling); if/when he gets hurt, GG.

We also need a POA. Vincent was supposed to be that, but obviously he hasn’t played whatsoever basically so there’s that too.

[RRR3]

I will say also that the problem in the Lakers ORG goes deeper than Ham. While I truly believe he’s an awful coach, you can still field a good team with a bad coach. But you need a great GM for this and Pelinka is easily as bad at his job as Ham is. Just an unbelievably inept organization, I can’t believe LeBron puts up with it. I would have left after 2022 for sure.

[nzahir]

The Hayes experiment should have died after week 1 of the RS. He’s absolutely dreadful. I feel like the old man yelling at the clouds with this the last few months but it’s a big problem.

You think this is bad? When AD sits, we know what happens to the defense (and offense when shots aren’t falling); if/when he gets hurt, GG.

We also need a POA. Vincent was supposed to be that, but obviously he hasn’t played whatsoever basically so there’s that too.

Well no ****

What happens to Denver if Jokic gets hurt?
What happens to Dallas if Luka is out?
Etc

If AD or Bron are hurt in the playoffs, none of this matters obviously

If we upgrade a wing forward spot with a guy like Jerami Grant, then I am fine with sticking with Vincent

We could go for a downgrade in Jevon Carter, who is healthy and could play now, but limits the ceiling

[nzahir]

I will say also that the problem in the Lakers ORG goes deeper than Ham. While I truly believe he’s an awful coach, you can still field a good team with a bad coach. But you need a great GM for this and Pelinka is easily as bad at his job as Ham is. Just an unbelievably inept organization, I can’t believe LeBron puts up with it. I would have left after 2022 for sure.

I blame Pelinka more than Ham

Hopefully Bronny declare for the draft and gets picked up by a very well run team like OKC and Bron heads out there and gets another ring or two

[PistolPeteJR]

The Hayes experiment should have died after week 1 of the RS. He’s absolutely dreadful. I feel like the old man yelling at the clouds with this the last few months but it’s a big problem.

You think this is bad? When AD sits, we know what happens to the defense (and offense when shots aren’t falling); if/when he gets hurt, GG.

We also need a POA. Vincent was supposed to be that, but obviously he hasn’t played whatsoever basically so there’s that too.

Well no ****

What happens to Denver if Jokic gets hurt?
What happens to Dallas if Luka is out?
Etc

If AD or Bron are hurt in the playoffs, none of this matters obviously

If we upgrade a wing forward spot with a guy like Jerami Grant, then I am fine with sticking with Vincent

We could go for a downgrade in Jevon Carter, who is healthy and could play now, but limits the ceiling

If Jokic is out, the defense doesn’t suffer. The offense will, but not to the same degree the Lakers’ defense will fall apart if AD is out given their backup big on D is horrid. In other words, if Denver loses one of their top-2 guys, the team will absolutely suffer, but not to the degree the Lakers would. That’s the point.

[Colbinii]

The Hayes experiment should have died after week 1 of the RS. He’s absolutely dreadful. I feel like the old man yelling at the clouds with this the last few months but it’s a big problem.

You think this is bad? When AD sits, we know what happens to the defense (and offense when shots aren’t falling); if/when he gets hurt, GG.

We also need a POA. Vincent was supposed to be that, but obviously he hasn’t played whatsoever basically so there’s that too.

Well no ****

What happens to Denver if Jokic gets hurt?
What happens to Dallas if Luka is out?
Etc

If AD or Bron are hurt in the playoffs, none of this matters obviously

If we upgrade a wing forward spot with a guy like Jerami Grant, then I am fine with sticking with Vincent

We could go for a downgrade in Jevon Carter, who is healthy and could play now, but limits the ceiling

If Jokic is out, the defense doesn’t suffer. The offense will, but not to the same degree the Lakers’ defense will fall apart if AD is out given their backup big on D is horrid. In other words, if Denver loses one of their top-2 guys, the team will absolutely suffer, but not to the degree the Lakers would. That’s the point.

But the degree shouldn't matter because if either jokic or AD gets hurt, neither team is getting close to winning the NBA finals.

[PistolPeteJR]

Well no ****

What happens to Denver if Jokic gets hurt?
What happens to Dallas if Luka is out?
Etc

If AD or Bron are hurt in the playoffs, none of this matters obviously

If we upgrade a wing forward spot with a guy like Jerami Grant, then I am fine with sticking with Vincent

We could go for a downgrade in Jevon Carter, who is healthy and could play now, but limits the ceiling

If Jokic is out, the defense doesn’t suffer. The offense will, but not to the same degree the Lakers’ defense will fall apart if AD is out given their backup big on D is horrid. In other words, if Denver loses one of their top-2 guys, the team will absolutely suffer, but not to the degree the Lakers would. That’s the point.

But the degree shouldn't matter because if either jokic or AD gets hurt, neither team is getting close to winning the NBA finals.

Of course it should matter. In the RS, AD is hurt, Lakers probably aren’t making the playoffs. If Jokic is hurt, Denver still stands a good chance of making the playoffs.
In the same light, if the Lakers have a half-decent backup big, that helps in the immediate and long-term by not seeing their performance COMPLETELY crumble in non-AD minutes as well helps not milk AD pre-playoffs.

[MyUniBroDavis]

It's alright UniBro. Even Tim sounds like Ham is losing him

Oh nah Ham is losing me too lol