The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6)

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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1721 » by Homer38 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:58 pm

Arrow wrote:^I might have exaggerated on it being the same level as '11 if they were to lose, but I honestly think it's championship or bust for LeBron. The remaining teams are not on the Warriors or the Spurs level. AD is not injured (*knocks on wood*) like Kyrie was in '15 or declined significantly like Wade did in '14. Yeah, the Lakers have flaws, but so does every other team remaining. The Lakers match up very well with the Nuggets and Celtics/Heat. If LeBron doesn't capitalize on arguably his easiest CF/Finals opponents in his career, the window for him to be the GOAT would officially be shut for me. He'll still be in my top 3/4, but I don't think he can catch MJ if he were to lose vs. the Nuggets or Celtics/Heat.


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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1722 » by Arrow » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:30 pm

Jordan Syndrome wrote:
Arrow wrote:^I might have exaggerated on it being the same level as '11 if they were to lose, but I honestly think it's championship or bust for LeBron. The remaining teams are not on the Warriors or the Spurs level. AD is not injured (*knocks on wood*) like Kyrie was in '15 or declined significantly like Wade did in '14. Yeah, the Lakers have flaws, but so does every other team remaining. The Lakers match up very well with the Nuggets and Celtics/Heat. If LeBron doesn't capitalize on arguably his easiest CF/Finals opponents in his career, the window for him to be the GOAT would officially be shut for me. He'll still be in my top 3/4, but I don't think he can catch MJ if he were to lose vs. the Nuggets or Celtics/Heat.


The Nuggets are better than the 2012 Celtics, 2013/2014 Pacers, 2015 Hawks, 2017 Celtics and 2018 Celtics.


I don't know about that. In a vacuum, the Nuggets are better than the '14 Pacers, '17 Celtics, and maybe '15 Hawks, but relative to LeBron's team, '12 Celtics were a tougher opponent due to Bosh missing half the series and played limited minutes in game 5 & 6. Hibbert was the second coming of Hakeem going against Bosh in '13 and it was pretty much just LeBron in '18.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1723 » by zimpy27 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:34 pm

Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1724 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:46 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1725 » by zimpy27 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:56 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.


He's been the best player in the league for 6 of 7 years. Don't try to deny it.

Plenty win without statistical dominance btw.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1726 » by oaktownwarriors87 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 3:59 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.


He's been the best player in the league for 6 of 7 years. Don't try to deny it.

Plenty win without statistical dominance btw.


Who? Who won MVP without leading the league in multiple categories?

You say plenty. Back that **** up or STFU
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1727 » by JVL » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:00 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.


Let's do it differently, since you seem to have so much time on your hands: let's do a point-based ranking system in all those categories for players playing at least 1.500 minutes in a single season (so 10.500 minutes played in the last 7 seasons with at least 1.500 minutes in every of the past 7 seasons).

Rank 1 = 1 point, rank 2 = 2 points, etc.

List your results of the top 50 players, I'd be very damn surprised if anyone else came remotely close to Lebron over the past 7 years in points. I'd even go as far as to guess that the second player behind Lebron will have a point total of at least factor 3 over Bron. It really won't be close.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1728 » by Heej » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:06 pm

Lol you only need to look at what LeBron does in the playoffs to see how much better he is than everyone in the league year after year after year. The fact that people don't recognize this makes the MVP results hilarious every year lol
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1729 » by KTM_2813 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:06 pm

zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


I think the main takeaway is that the NBA should have a Conn Smythe Trophy or Ballon d'Or. In this era, it's becoming more and more common for players to focus on the playoffs over the regular season. I'm not even making a judgement on it - maybe it's a bad strategy or maybe it's a good strategy - but it feels strange that the playoffs are almost completely ignored as far as awards are concerned.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1730 » by LikeABosh » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:07 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.


He's been the best player in the league for 6 of 7 years. Don't try to deny it.

Plenty win without statistical dominance btw.


Who? Who won MVP without leading the league in multiple categories?

You say plenty. Back that **** up or STFU



Why are you even in this thread if you get offended by some LeBron hype?
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1731 » by zimpy27 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:08 pm

KTM_2813 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


I think the main takeaway is that the NBA should have a Conn Smythe Trophy or Ballon d'Or. In this era, it's becoming more and more common for players to focus on the playoffs over the regular season. I'm not even making a judgement on it - maybe it's a bad strategy or maybe it's a good strategy - but it feels strange that the playoffs are almost completely ignored as far as awards are concerned.


I tend to agree, it'd be good if there were awards that focussed on the entire NBA year, regular season and playoffs combined. Maybe they do voting after conference finals and release the winners during the finals series.

That would actually make having a separate finals MVP make sense.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1732 » by PaulieWal » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:09 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.


He's been the best player in the league for 6 of 7 years. Don't try to deny it.

Plenty win without statistical dominance btw.


Who? Who won MVP without leading the league in multiple categories?

You say plenty. Back that **** up or STFU


Yeah, this is not gonna fly. Warned.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1733 » by limbo » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:10 pm

Lol @ the arbitrariness of some of these stats... Guess Rudy Gobert should've won a couple of MVPs by now cause he's led the league in TS%, eFG%, FG%, BPG and DWS a couple of times...

Anyway, the theme around LeBron not winning any MVP's since 2014 has always been about him and his team giving like 70-80% effort during most of the regular season... It's always been due to lack of effort (and narrative) rather than him not being capable or deserving... Usually there's always at least one other ATG player that plays with an elite supporting cast that's gunning for 60 wins and MVP... When you're in your 20's you can kind of afford to do that because your body is more durable and recovers better. Once you hit your 30's it's really not worth it... Rather just go in cruise control and be in the best possible shape for winning a title than risk your longevity and title probability to maximize your chances of getting a less prestigious award.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1734 » by mademan » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:11 pm

I might be in the majority with this, i know, but i dont think either of the next 2 series are gonna be long. No disrespect to the teams remaining, but the Lakers are a tier above and i dont see a letdown occurring with their focus
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1735 » by Heej » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:13 pm

This guy oaktown has this shtick of posting the worst stats to prove an insane point. Notice how none of the advanced impact metrics that paint LeBron as the best in the league were mentioned.

In regards to mvp it's clear now that this is becoming more than a regular season award. One of my friends put it best in that the NBA season is like Dragonball Z, you get 20 episodes of filler until you get 1 with a main fight. The whole point of the MVP is to capture who is the best player in the league that year that gives you the best chance to win a championship. If that wasn't the spirit of the award you wouldn't get threads mocking Harden and Giannis every season or people saying Jordan and LeBron should've won mvp every year.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1736 » by limbo » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:18 pm

KTM_2813 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


I think the main takeaway is that the NBA should have a Conn Smythe Trophy or Ballon d'Or. In this era, it's becoming more and more common for players to focus on the playoffs over the regular season. I'm not even making a judgement on it - maybe it's a bad strategy or maybe it's a good strategy - but it feels strange that the playoffs are almost completely ignored as far as awards are concerned.


Regular Season MVP, Playoffs MVP and Best Player Of the Year... This would be the best way to 'log' individual performances for the whole year...

Might as well scrap 6th Man of the Year since it's basically given to dudes that come off the bench but play 32 mpg and are used as a scoring sparks... There's really no other depth to it.

Scrap 6th man of the year and replace it with Offensive Player of the Year... If there's a DPOY, it would make sense to have an OPOY award as well...
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1737 » by freethedevil » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:24 pm

oaktownwarriors87 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


So dominant. Let's see all the areas he has lead the league in over the last 7 years:


PER: 0 of 7 years
WS: 0 of 7 years
WS/48: 0 of 7 years
VORP: 1 of 7 years
BPM: 0 of 7 years
Wins: 0 of 7 years
OWS: 0 of 7 years
DWS: 0 of 7 years
OBPM: 0 of 7 years
DBPM: 0 of 7 years
PPG: 0 of 7 years
APG: 1 of 7 years
SPG: 0 of 7 years
BPG: 0 of 7 years
RPG: 0 of 7 years
FG%: 0 of 7 years
FT%: 0 of 7 years
3P%: 0 of 7 years
2P%: 0 of 7 years
TS%: 0 of 7 years
eFG: 0 of 7 years

He has been a dominant presence for 7 years, but he has not dominated the league in any single season.

When was the last time someone won an MVP without being statistically dominant? Never.

Now do the playoffs.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1738 » by freethedevil » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:25 pm

Heej wrote:This guy oaktown has this shtick of posting the worst stats to prove an insane point. Notice how none of the advanced impact metrics that paint LeBron as the best in the league were mentioned.

In regards to mvp it's clear now that this is becoming more than a regular season award. One of my friends put it best in that the NBA season is like Dragonball Z, you get 20 episodes of filler until you get 1 with a main fight. The whole point of the MVP is to capture who is the best player in the league that year that gives you the best chance to win a championship. If that wasn't the spirit of the award you wouldn't get threads mocking Harden and Giannis every season or people saying Jordan and LeBron should've won mvp every year.

TBF, even going by impact metrics lebron's always been 2-4th post 2014 in the regular season.
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1739 » by KTM_2813 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:37 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
KTM_2813 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Been 7 years since LeBron won an MVP. Imagine dominating a sport for a 7-year stretch and not getting an MVP. Has this happened to any other player?


I think the main takeaway is that the NBA should have a Conn Smythe Trophy or Ballon d'Or. In this era, it's becoming more and more common for players to focus on the playoffs over the regular season. I'm not even making a judgement on it - maybe it's a bad strategy or maybe it's a good strategy - but it feels strange that the playoffs are almost completely ignored as far as awards are concerned.


I tend to agree, it'd be good if there were awards that focussed on the entire NBA year, regular season and playoffs combined. Maybe they do voting after conference finals and release the winners during the finals series.

That would actually make having a separate finals MVP make sense.


From LeBron's perspective, not having those awards definitely impacts his public perception. There are many people who, perhaps rightfully so, realize that LeBron has only won 4 MVPs, and wonder how he can be in the GOAT conversation when there are guys ahead or even with him. The problem is that the NBA awards categories were decided upon 50 years ago by some random dudes in a boardroom, and for some reason have not evolved since then.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the NBA should alter its awards to make LeBron look good. I'm just saying that there are sensible awards that the NBA does not hand out, and it probably does impact LeBron's legacy in a way, as well as other players too. Bill Russell is actually the most victimized - If the NBA handed out DPOTY and FMVP when he was playing, there would be absolutely no resume-based argument for anyone besides him as the GOAT. :lol:
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Re: The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 6) 

Post#1740 » by Heej » Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:42 pm

freethedevil wrote:
Heej wrote:This guy oaktown has this shtick of posting the worst stats to prove an insane point. Notice how none of the advanced impact metrics that paint LeBron as the best in the league were mentioned.

In regards to mvp it's clear now that this is becoming more than a regular season award. One of my friends put it best in that the NBA season is like Dragonball Z, you get 20 episodes of filler until you get 1 with a main fight. The whole point of the MVP is to capture who is the best player in the league that year that gives you the best chance to win a championship. If that wasn't the spirit of the award you wouldn't get threads mocking Harden and Giannis every season or people saying Jordan and LeBron should've won mvp every year.

TBF, even going by impact metrics lebron's always been 2-4th post 2014 in the regular season.

Really? I thought there was a stretch with Draymond-Curry where he was displaced then back on top by 2017 in some of the metrics. I do remember that being a thing on the boards for some years but hey I might just be misremembering
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