The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[BasketballFan7]

This game definitely had me questioning Lue's ability to manage rotation. Love being out there when GS went small was such an obvious liability. And he doesn't punish people on the boards because GS still keeps 4 guys out there who are 6'6-6'8 and superior athletes.

I have been a Love supporter, but that was atrocious.

[nbafan77]

Let's meme it:

Elimination Games

Michael Jordan (13 G)

Average Defense: 104.3 DRTG (-3.4)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

41.6  31.3  7.9   7.0   4.2   2.0   24.0  11.7 .537  .125    23.3

Lebron James (16 G)

Average Defense: 101.3 DRTG (-5.3)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

45.1  32.4  11.0  6.6   4.2   1.4   23.9  11.3 .561  .127    24.7

Kobe Bryant Post-2001 (13 G)

Average Defense: 102.7 DRTG ( -3.2)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

42.3  24.9  5.7   3.1   3.5   1.2   21.7  7.3  .500  .124    13.8

Spoiler:

Kobe Bryant Career (18 G)

Average Defense: 102.3 DRTG ( -3.1)

Code: Select all

MPG   PTS   TRB   AST   TOV   STL   FGA   FTA   TS%   TOV%   GmSc

40.0  22.2  5.4   3.2   3.1   0.9   19.4  6.5  .498  .123    12.6

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

No!



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[JulesWinnfield]

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

No!



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That graphic is a couple years old actually and doesn't even include his buzzer beater at Chicago last year

[kayess]

What? To me that is a pretty huge compliment. He basically thinks that if Bron had been able to maintain his jumper from the 2013, 2014 conversation he would possibly be the GOAT. Not sure I follow you .

He's also been very complimentary of James' game on twitter and his pods with Simmons...

Oh sorry, I was reading through his twitter and he said there were tons of players who didn't have his physique that were able to develop a jumper.

That's what I was referring to when I wrote it. So yeah, it's still pretty high praise for him but the follow-up is kinda meh. It's clear he's appreciative though from your comments, will have to listen to more of him on specific players

He's not wrong though. A lot of players have been able to develop consistent jumpers in their careers. We all thought James had done it too and showed it in 2 consistent seasons in 13, 14 only to regress pretty badly. It is perplexing.

Yeah, I agreed with him - which is why I viewed it more as an indictment (why couldn't James do it if other, less gifted players have?)

[MisterHibachi]

I think this game was better than Boston game 6. Agree, disagree?

[PaulieWal]

Oh sorry, I was reading through his twitter and he said there were tons of players who didn't have his physique that were able to develop a jumper.

That's what I was referring to when I wrote it. So yeah, it's still pretty high praise for him but the follow-up is kinda meh. It's clear he's appreciative though from your comments, will have to listen to more of him on specific players

He's not wrong though. A lot of players have been able to develop consistent jumpers in their careers. We all thought James had done it too and showed it in 2 consistent seasons in 13, 14 only to regress pretty badly. It is perplexing.

Yeah, I agreed with him - which is why I viewed it more as an indictment (why couldn't James do it if other, less gifted players have?)

Not to get too off-track but I am not sure why you see it as an "indictment". As Hibachi and I said he's highly complimentary of James whenever he talks about his game. That's just more of an observation and the biggest thing is he's not even wrong.

[PaulieWal]

I think this game was better than Boston game 6. Agree, disagree?

Eh...wouldn't go that far. This might have been a better defensive game but there was far much pressure during that game. Right now as it stands he still has 2 rings. Miami loses to Boston in 2012 James would have never heard the end of it and the Big 3 would have been broken up.

In this game James also relied on Irving to pick up the offensive slack in the 4th. In that game he got 2nd half contribution from Wade and others but that was James pretty much dominating the entire game before Celtics put in their scrubs.

[mikejames23]

Alright folks, time for the real questions now.

Considering the stakes...best T-shirt game ever? Kyrie #2?

Absolutely love these Cavs unis BTW. By far their best since these for me





Def two of the best unis of these era for me.

I agree fully. The Cavs look badass in these jerseys, and Lebron's like a full on supervillain along with Kyrie's stylish/eye-appealing play. Love it.

As far as the game itself: LeBron once again proves himself as being perhaps the most clutch player of this generation. Big game, verge of elimination, and I can count on this man to deliver.

[nbafan77]

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

No!



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That graphic is a couple years old actually and doesn't even include his buzzer beater at Chicago last year

Thanks, so it should be 7/15 47% vs 7/23(23%) for Kobe and a lot of people think that Kobe is more clutch than LBJ when it counts more( the post season)!


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[yoyoboy]

LeBron was unbelievable. Definitely didn't expect it after the first few minutes of the game, where he looks a little careless.

Definitely a top 5 LeBron game of all time. Don't know if it beats Game 5 against Detroit or Game 6 against Boston.

[MisterHibachi]

I think this game was better than Boston game 6. Agree, disagree?

Eh...wouldn't go that far. This might have been a better defensive game but there was far much pressure during that game. Right now as it stands he still has 2 rings. Miami loses to Boston in 2012 James would have never heard the end of it and the Big 3 would have been broken up.

In this game James also relied on Irving to pick up the offensive slack in the 4th. In that game he got 2nd half contribution from Wade and others but that was James pretty much dominating the entire game before Celtics put in their scrubs.

In the moment lol

I was just looking for someone to talk me out of championing this over game 6. I do think this is a top 5 game ever for LeBron. Hopefully he pushes it down the ladder in the next two.

[parapooper]

But Kobe is a closer! He's so clutch! He was made for the Finals! He's got the will to win!

These were literally the arguments that people were STILL using on the GB a couple of days ago.

LeBron's not perfect, but I think people like to talk themselves into circles just to justify a player that they like more (Kobe) over the one they like less (LeBron), instead of going with the simple answer of the player that is objectively better across the board, on a career-long basis, is the better player.

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

No!



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This graphic shows Kobe actually has the most consistent last-shot-jumper. MJ and LBJ are extremely inconsistent - MJ basically 50-50.

[HeartBreakKid]

The Cavs tend to have the worst jerseys in the league, but I really loved the ones they were wearing this game. Do they wear those a lot and I just wasn't paying attention?

[nbafan77]

In terms of taking the last shot, I'll take Kobe over Lebron 9/10. And yes, I know the numbers, but Kobe's jumper is much more consistent

No!



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This graphic shows Kobe actually has the most consistent last-shot-jumper. MJ and LBJ are extremely inconsistent - MJ basically 50-50.

What?! The graphic is so clear and you still arguing who is a better clutch player between the two players?!


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[JulesWinnfield]

Without getting too psycho analytical, both Lebron and the Cavs in general just appeared to play free tonight, and the positive results snowballed. Almost as if they looked at it as "we have one foot in the grave, let's go out there and just play and live with whatever happens." That's one reason I can't quite put this performance up there with game 6 Boston, where the world was ready to completely crash down on him if they lost. That same pressure dynamic wasn't there tonight. With each step they make here though to crawl back in this series that pressure builds back on them.... although it's certainly greater on golden state. A free Lebron just letting it fly without overthinking on every jumper and living with the result is a key here going forward. Hope they can carry this over...

[GSP]

No!



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That graphic is a couple years old actually and doesn't even include his buzzer beater at Chicago last year

Thanks, so it should be 7/15 47% vs 7/23(23%) for Kobe and a lot of people think that Kobe is more clutch than LBJ when it counts more( the post season)!


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Hes actually 7-17 IIRC (unless there was a situation like that in these playoffs im not remembering). He missed 2 against the Warriors last finals. Both in regulation in games 1 and 2 with the game tied, both went to overtime after that.

[Dupp]

I think this game was better than Boston game 6. Agree, disagree?

No way. The gravity of the situation and pressure was far more extreme in game 6 in Boston. That is the most pressure any athlete has ever faced ever period.

Unless he goes 50-10-10 on 60% in a finals game 7 nothing can ever top that. He iced that game on 3 quarters.

[tone wone]

Without getting too psycho analytical, both Lebron and the Cavs in general just appeared to play free tonight, and the positive results snowballed. Almost as if they looked at it as "we have one foot in the grave, let's go out there and just play and live with whatever happens." That's one reason I can't quite put this performance up there with game 6 Boston, where the world was ready to completely crash down on him if they lost. That same pressure dynamic wasn't there tonight. With each step they make here though to crawl back in this series that pressure builds back on them.... although it's certainly greater on golden state. A free Lebron just letting it fly without overthinking on every jumper and living with the result is a key here going forward. Hope they can carry this over...

I'll keep saying it but 2016 Lebron is NOT a terrible shooter. He's just "ehh" "meh" "average". Its his overall approach that makes him worse. You cant spend the entire game turning jumpers down, only shooting as a last resort and expect results.

When he actual sets up his shot, I dont think his actual shooting ability is nearly bad as it was last postseason nor as bad as it was the first 2 months of this season. I think his shot is probably somewhere between 2006 and 2015 regular season. Not anything to brag about per say, but not completely hopeless either i.e 2015 playoffs-beginning 15/16

[JVL]

No!



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This graphic shows Kobe actually has the most consistent last-shot-jumper. MJ and LBJ are extremely inconsistent - MJ basically 50-50.

What?! The graphic is so clear and you still arguing who is a better clutch player between the two players?!


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I believe the sarcasm was pretty obvious.

[kayess]

Without getting too psycho analytical, both Lebron and the Cavs in general just appeared to play free tonight, and the positive results snowballed. Almost as if they looked at it as "we have one foot in the grave, let's go out there and just play and live with whatever happens." That's one reason I can't quite put this performance up there with game 6 Boston, where the world was ready to completely crash down on him if they lost. That same pressure dynamic wasn't there tonight. With each step they make here though to crawl back in this series that pressure builds back on them.... although it's certainly greater on golden state. A free Lebron just letting it fly without overthinking on every jumper and living with the result is a key here going forward. Hope they can carry this over...

I'll keep saying it but 2016 Lebron is NOT a terrible shooter. He's just "ehh" "meh" "average". Its his overall approach that makes him worse. You cant spend the entire game turning jumpers down, only shooting as a last resort and expect results.

When he actual sets up his shot, I dont think his actual shooting ability is nearly bad as it was last postseason nor as bad as it was the first 2 months of this season. I think his shot is probably somewhere between 2006 and 2015 regular season. Not anything to brag about per say, but not completely hopeless either i.e 2015 playoffs-beginning 15/16

Probably the most reasonable take. I'll still keep calling it terrible though so that I don't get my hopes up.

What did you think of his performance tonight, tone wone?