shutupandjam wrote:Where is the evidence behind the claims that Kobe was an elite perimeter defender? Why don't the numbers support this claim? The plus minus data has Kobe consistently hurting or very marginally helping his team defensively throughout his prime. One year, sure, that can be an anomaly. But look at his career rapm:
2000: -0.7
2001: +0.9
2002: -0.1
2003: -0.2
2004: -0.4
2005: -1.1
2006: -1.1
2007: -0.1
2008: +0.9
2009: +0.8
2010: +1.9
2011: -0.7
2012: +0.5
His boxscore numbers similarly do not support the "elite" claim with respect to defense. He only eclipsed +1 once in defensive estimated impact in his career (+1.5 in 2000) and his career average is +0.3. Granted, the box score misses a lot, so if you don't put much trust into those numbers, it's understandable. But Kobe isn't much of a turnover creator and I'm not convinced by bits and pieces of video footage of him locking people down on random possessions - because it seems to me those are few and far in between, and while it's great to have someone on your team who can lock opponents down, it doesn't automatically make him a great defensive player.
I'm also unconvinced by his all nba defensive accolades, which, while impressive, seem to me to reflect voters' inability to evaluate defensive impact and consequent decisions to vote for the incumbent or the guy with the reputation.
But perhaps the numbers are misleading and I'm underestimating Kobe's true defensive impact, I'm just not swayed to believe that he was an elite level perimeter defender based on the evidence I've seen, though I'm open to hearing out more arguments.
Here's a few other things RAPM says:
2013 PI RAPM says that Tony Parker had a bigger defensive impact than LeBron James.
2013 PI RAPM says that Amir Johnson was more impactful than Dirk Nowitzki
2004 PI RAPM says that Speedy Claxton was a more impactful defender than Shaquille O'Neal
2005 PI RAPM has Jason Collins as a more impactful player than Kevin Garnett.
I could go on and on and on.
My point is that RAPM is a useful tool to confirm something that is already pretty much regarded as true.
It's rife with insanity however, and if you see something in it that doesn't coincide with your normal beliefs, its most likely untrue. Unless you agree with any of the statements I've made here, I think Kobe in his prime being a bad defender falls into the same category.
I'm not saying 2011-13 Kobe was good defensively, but to denigrate 2000-2009 Kobe for his defense just because of RAPM is a little strange. If you want to be consistent, then you'd also believe other things, like Antoine Walker was more impactful on defense than Tim Duncan in 2002.
The RAPM debate is getting old honestly.
When people use it as their be-all and end-all, I'm wondering what they think about these inconsistencies. I'm sure they're explained away as noise given they generally contradict the common view, but isn't the common view on prime Kobe's defense that it was elite too? Why the different standards?
