The Lebron Thread (2015-16 Pt. 3)

[RSCD3_]

I think LeBron's performance in the Finals last year tends to get overrated tbh. In games 1-3, I agree, he was fantastic. But once GS made their adjustments, LeBron really needed to be more effective offensively, and while it's true that he didn't have much help, he was also given a lot of wide open jumpers by the GS defense, and he couldn't do anything with it. His inability to shoot was on display in the 2nd half of that series, and while you can't blame him for much, you really can't give him too much credit overall. He was putting up huge raw numbers as a result of his USG, but his team pretty much got destroyed in the last 3 games, while he was pretty ineffective offensively.

I think Curry should have won FMVP.

Even with lebron's usage how many others ballhandlee could post 50+ AST% and Sub 10 TOV% with such limited offensive support. His assists make up a lot for his poor scoring efficiency

[therealbig3]

I think LeBron's performance in the Finals last year tends to get overrated tbh. In games 1-3, I agree, he was fantastic. But once GS made their adjustments, LeBron really needed to be more effective offensively, and while it's true that he didn't have much help, he was also given a lot of wide open jumpers by the GS defense, and he couldn't do anything with it. His inability to shoot was on display in the 2nd half of that series, and while you can't blame him for much, you really can't give him too much credit overall. He was putting up huge raw numbers as a result of his USG, but his team pretty much got destroyed in the last 3 games, while he was pretty ineffective offensively.

I think Curry should have won FMVP.

Even with lebron's usage how many others ballhandlee could post 50+ AST% and Sub 10 TOV% with such limited offensive support. His assists make up a lot for his poor scoring efficiency

For sure, I think he played great. I just think people tend to get carried away with the raw numbers and act like he did no wrong, when I don't agree with that. Also, I think he could have played better by his own standard if he was able to shoot better, and imo, his inability to convert from the outside really limited the offensive impact that he needed to have in order for Cleveland to compete in the 2nd half of that series.

[parapooper]

He has a pretty solid FMVP case in 2014 as well.
28/8/4 with 68%TS and DRtg several points below team average (which is pretty sad if your DRtg is 116). Sadly, if you look at what his teammates did in the 2014 finals then LeBron's 2011 finals look god-like.
What did 18/6/2 Kawhi get the FMVP for? Holding LeBron to 28 @ 68%TS and the guy he was defending playing the best on the opposing team by a gigantic margin?

[JulesWinnfield]

Steph didn't receive votes because the voters didn't want LeBron to get it. The ones who wanted to give it to a Warriors player probably switched their votes to Iggy once they realized LeBron would win if they split the vote, and Iggy probably had more supporters than Steph. It's basically impossible no one thought Steph deserved a vote.

That's how I see it as well. I was avoiding going down that road though because I remember when that theory was posed here last year it caused a huge stir with its believers painted as weird conspiracy theorists, I didn't have the energy or inclination to debate that again. I think it's perfectly reasonable to believe that's what happened. Not out of a bias against Lebron per say, more of a bias against a losing player getting the award on principle (even though there is precedent)

[dreamshake]

The voting for finals mvp last season was a total cluster-bleep in general. Lebron was as deserving as any loser ever, but if you are just dead set on giving it to a winning player it still should have been Curry. He was still clearly the best Warrior in the series and was generally terrific outside of that poor shooting game 2. The fact that he didn't even receive a single vote is utter nonsense. I think the voting was a total catastrophe last year

Eh, I gotta disagree. I really do think Iggy was the best Warrior in that specific series. His impact was just massive. ORtg 117 to Steph's 104. Iggy slightly higher TS% even with a high volume of terrible free throw shooting (so much higher eFG%). Steph obviously higher volume scoring overall, but not as much of a difference as usual - Iggy was scoring far more than his usual volume. Providing that kind of offensive contribution while clearly carrying a massive defensive workload (and doing exceptionally well at it) just outweighs a sub-par series from Steph to me. I think it's close - so not saying Steph doesn't have a case.

[Mazter]

Eh, I gotta disagree. I really do think Iggy was the best Warrior in that specific series. His impact was just massive. ORtg 117 to Steph's 104. Iggy slightly higher TS% even with a high volume of terrible free throw shooting (so much higher eFG%). Steph obviously higher volume scoring overall, but not as much of a difference as usual - Iggy was scoring far more than his usual volume. Providing that kind of offensive contribution while clearly carrying a massive defensive workload (and doing exceptionally well at it) just outweighs a sub-par series from Steph to me. I think it's close - so not saying Steph doesn't have a case.

I guess the difference is that Curry created the offense and Iggy benefited from Curry's work by getting assisted and open shots. 81% of Iggy's FG's were assisted against 35% for Curry. 75% of Iggy's shots were (wide) open. And being hacked and missing 5 FT's in a row in crunch time is not really something to be proud of.

[dreamshake]

Eh, I gotta disagree. I really do think Iggy was the best Warrior in that specific series. His impact was just massive. ORtg 117 to Steph's 104. Iggy slightly higher TS% even with a high volume of terrible free throw shooting (so much higher eFG%). Steph obviously higher volume scoring overall, but not as much of a difference as usual - Iggy was scoring far more than his usual volume. Providing that kind of offensive contribution while clearly carrying a massive defensive workload (and doing exceptionally well at it) just outweighs a sub-par series from Steph to me. I think it's close - so not saying Steph doesn't have a case.

I guess the difference is that Curry created the offense and Iggy benefited from Curry's work by getting assisted and open shots. 81% of Iggy's FG's were assisted against 35% for Curry. 75% of Iggy's shots were (wide) open. And being hacked and missing 5 FT's in a row in crunch time is not really something to be proud of.

Yeah, those are fair points. I mean I certainly factor in that the offense in general is predicated on Steph's gravity. No question about that. True that Iggy was assisted on most of his shots. He did do a fair amount of playmaking himself as well though.

[Dupp]

I think LeBron's performance in the Finals last year tends to get overrated tbh. In games 1-3, I agree, he was fantastic. But once GS made their adjustments, LeBron really needed to be more effective offensively, and while it's true that he didn't have much help, he was also given a lot of wide open jumpers by the GS defense, and he couldn't do anything with it. His inability to shoot was on display in the 2nd half of that series, and while you can't blame him for much, you really can't give him too much credit overall. He was putting up huge raw numbers as a result of his USG, but his team pretty much got destroyed in the last 3 games, while he was pretty ineffective offensively.

I think Curry should have won FMVP.

Even with lebron's usage how many others ballhandlee could post 50+ AST% and Sub 10 TOV% with such limited offensive support. His assists make up a lot for his poor scoring efficiency

Which was even more impressive given his turnover problem coming into the finals...

[Dupp]

He has a pretty solid FMVP case in 2014 as well.
28/8/4 with 68%TS and DRtg several points below team average (which is pretty sad if your DRtg is 116). Sadly, if you look at what his teammates did in the 2014 finals then LeBron's 2011 finals look god-like.
What did 18/6/2 Kawhi get the FMVP for? Holding LeBron to 28 @ 68%TS and the guy he was defending playing the best on the opposing team by a gigantic margin?

That last two finals mvp have been given to guys because of their effort defending lebron basically.

I will say Iggy was easily the best defensive player in the series and his efforts on lebron really did win them the series.

[PCProductions]

He has a pretty solid FMVP case in 2014 as well.
28/8/4 with 68%TS and DRtg several points below team average (which is pretty sad if your DRtg is 116). Sadly, if you look at what his teammates did in the 2014 finals then LeBron's 2011 finals look god-like.
What did 18/6/2 Kawhi get the FMVP for? Holding LeBron to 28 @ 68%TS and the guy he was defending playing the best on the opposing team by a gigantic margin?

That last two finals mvp have been given to guys because of their effort defending lebron basically.

I will say Iggy was easily the best defensive player in the series and his efforts on lebron really did win them the series.

People watching what Lebron is doing to Carroll this series should appreciate how great Iggz was at defending Lebron. He really made him uncomfortable in the spot that people thought was unguardable.

[VideoGameJames]

He has a pretty solid FMVP case in 2014 as well.
28/8/4 with 68%TS and DRtg several points below team average (which is pretty sad if your DRtg is 116). Sadly, if you look at what his teammates did in the 2014 finals then LeBron's 2011 finals look god-like.
What did 18/6/2 Kawhi get the FMVP for? Holding LeBron to 28 @ 68%TS and the guy he was defending playing the best on the opposing team by a gigantic margin?

That last two finals mvp have been given to guys because of their effort defending lebron basically.

I will say Iggy was easily the best defensive player in the series and his efforts on lebron really did win them the series.

People watching what Lebron is doing to Carroll this series should appreciate how great Iggz was at defending Lebron. He really made him uncomfortable in the spot that people thought was unguardable.

Carroll doesn't look like himself playing through the knee injury though. Also, I agree with Dupp, Kawhi and Iggy getting FMVP for defending Lebron reflects better on Lebron than him winning it in a losing effort ever could.

[PCProductions]

4 assists halfway through this first quarter.

[SideshowBob]

4 fouls for Toronto already

[SideshowBob]

How hard is it to make a pass on the pick and roll

[SideshowBob]

I'd love to see this team's ORTG on plays where Kyrie initiates vs. when he doesn't.

[PCProductions]

And the lead melts in an instant when Lebron hits the bench.

[SideshowBob]

Cavs ORTG when Lebron was playing was ~160

[SideshowBob]

Delly time

[MisterHibachi]

I really don't know what to think when watching Kyrie anymore.

[SideshowBob]

What's crazier? That Lebron has 6 FTA or that he's 5/6?