The James Harden Thread (2019-20)

[Peregrine01]

Umm....The reason they couldn't rebound is because they were scrambling and the non-shooters of Houston crash the paint while the defenders werw running towards the perimeter.

I'm sort of shocked you are saying this. I watched the entire game and it wasn't some "fluke" as to why Houston was getting these rebounds.

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Thats possible but a defense is always scrambling against a five out offense. Importantly, the Raps were basically not even guarding Russ outside of the paint so Gasol and Ibaka just sat under the rim. Not convinced that that was the reason why the Rockets had a near 40% ORB rate (Capela alone was at 25%). Sometimes that’s just the way the ball bounces.

While defense is normally scrambling the fact that Toronto doubled Harden every possession changed the type of scramble it was and made it even more chaotic than normal.

Houston is one of the best OReb teams in the league already while Toronto is one of the worst [Houston 3rd, Toronto 29th].

None of this is surprising. None.

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Well that makes more sense - raps have just been a really bad defensive rebounding team this year.

[Colbinii]

Thats possible but a defense is always scrambling against a five out offense. Importantly, the Raps were basically not even guarding Russ outside of the paint so Gasol and Ibaka just sat under the rim. Not convinced that that was the reason why the Rockets had a near 40% ORB rate (Capela alone was at 25%). Sometimes that’s just the way the ball bounces.

While defense is normally scrambling the fact that Toronto doubled Harden every possession changed the type of scramble it was and made it even more chaotic than normal.

Houston is one of the best OReb teams in the league already while Toronto is one of the worst [Houston 3rd, Toronto 29th].

None of this is surprising. None.

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Well that makes more sense - raps have just been a really bad defensive rebounding team this year.

Yup they are terrible.

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[Sasaki]

So another 55 point game from him, as the Rockets win 116-110.

I have to admit: this is arguably the most depressing team I've watched since I began in 2008-09. Even the 2015-16 team was amusing in the way that watching a bad film can be funny due to trainwreck. But this is just an old team, and yet the only reason it functions is because James Harden is a goddamn genius. Danuel House has been a nice spot, but the rest of the team is unlikable, old, and just doesn't play hard on defense.

[Texas Chuck]

So another 55 point game from him, as the Rockets win 116-110.

And only 5 FTA. Did I read that's the fewest FTA ever for a player scoring 50 or more? I wonder what all the Harden haters make of that.

And yes he's a genius. And yes it's disappointing how the talent around him has continue to erode. It would be tremendous if they could trick some bad team desperate for something to energize their fanbase to trade them a pile of role players for Westbrook, but I think that ship has probably sailed.

[Statlanta]

So another 55 point game from him, as the Rockets win 116-110.

And only 5 FTA. Did I read that's the fewest FTA ever for a player scoring 50 or more? I wonder what all the Harden haters make of that.

Cleveland was already horrible on D with LBJ. They are horrendous exchanging him with rookies. The Orlando Magic usually can't crack 100 points in an away game and Cleveland gave them 116 in their own building.

[Peregrine01]

So basically in the last three seasons since D’Antoni came in, Harden has put up 43 points per 100 on 62% TS in the reg season and 39 points per 100 on 56% TS in the playoffs. In the playoffs, he’s been less efficient from the field (54% efg vs 49%) and perhaps most importantly, gets to the line way less (51% ftr vs 40%)

So again, I’d caution to put too much weight on regular season performances. But no doubt he looks like an offensive GOAT currently.

[thekdog34]

Well one of the reasons he "doesn't have enough help" is because he ran off Paul and pushed to bring in Westbrook. I don't we can legitimately argue that he didn't have help in 18-19.

[limbo]

Harden might potentially score 50 with only 5 FT back-to-back, lol. The irony.

He's now the first player in NBA history that can score 50 with only threes or only free-throws

[Peregrine01]

Hard to believe but I think his jumper has gotten way better.

[K_chile22]

So another 55 point game from him, as the Rockets win 116-110.

And only 5 FTA. Did I read that's the fewest FTA ever for a player scoring 50 or more? I wonder what all the Harden haters make of that.

Cleveland was already horrible on D with LBJ. They are horrendous exchanging him with rookies. The Orlando Magic usually can't crack 100 points in an away game and Cleveland gave them 116 in their own building.

And what do you have to say about tonight?

[K_chile22]

Well one of the reasons he "doesn't have enough help" is because he ran off Paul and pushed to bring in Westbrook. I don't we can legitimately argue that he didn't have help in 18-19.

Paul was so much worse than this year and two years ago. He was banged up all year and it showed. Of they had this CP3 they probably make the finals, but he wasn't defending will because he wasn't moving well, and couldn't create looks for himself

[Statlanta]

And only 5 FTA. Did I read that's the fewest FTA ever for a player scoring 50 or more? I wonder what all the Harden haters make of that.

Cleveland was already horrible on D with LBJ. They are horrendous exchanging him with rookies. The Orlando Magic usually can't crack 100 points in an away game and Cleveland gave them 116 in their own building.

And what do you have to say about tonight?

The Magic have never had a proper wing player the entire decade with all these experiments with SGs and PFs. Let alone a proper wing defensive player.

He's a regular season player till he gets a midrange shot, and no the floater doesn't count.

[Texas Chuck]

He's a regular season player till he gets a midrange shot, and no the floater doesn't count.

Has Harden been less effective in the playoffs than teh RS in Houston? Sure.

But he's been like a 28/6/7 guy on above league average efficiency. In other words one of the top 5 playoff performers over that time period.

Judging him against RS Harden it's not as impressive. Judging him against every one else it still really is.


Also he plays for a team that has essentially phased teh mid-range game totally out of the offense to great results. Mid range game can still have a place if you have a Mike or a Dirk who are elite mid-range operators who completely warp defenses and can't be defended one on one. But generally there is a reason teams are moving away from the midrange more and more---it's the worst shots in basketball.

[LeBird]

He's a regular season player till he gets a midrange shot, and no the floater doesn't count.

Has Harden been less effective in the playoffs than teh RS in Houston? Sure.

But he's been like a 28/6/7 guy on above league average efficiency. In other words one of the top 5 playoff performers over that time period.

Judging him against RS Harden it's not as impressive. Judging him against every one else it still really is.


Also he plays for a team that has essentially phased teh mid-range game totally out of the offense to great results. Mid range game can still have a place if you have a Mike or a Dirk who are elite mid-range operators who completely warp defenses and can't be defended one on one. But generally there is a reason teams are moving away from the midrange more and more---it's the worst shots in basketball.

28/6/7 is a guarantee of Houston not winning anything with Harden. That's why the critique is there. The team is set up for him to get monstrous numbers, so him averaging 40 in the RS is not impressive since he is held to below his own standards when the game actually counts.

I don't think anyone criticising Harden thinks he's a **** player but he definately isn't as good as Harden, the Rockets and their fans would love to believe. These 50 point games are more media stunts than basketball necessity.

[mysticOscar]

He's a regular season player till he gets a midrange shot, and no the floater doesn't count.

Has Harden been less effective in the playoffs than teh RS in Houston? Sure.

But he's been like a 28/6/7 guy on above league average efficiency. In other words one of the top 5 playoff performers over that time period.

Judging him against RS Harden it's not as impressive. Judging him against every one else it still really is.


Also he plays for a team that has essentially phased teh mid-range game totally out of the offense to great results. Mid range game can still have a place if you have a Mike or a Dirk who are elite mid-range operators who completely warp defenses and can't be defended one on one. But generally there is a reason teams are moving away from the midrange more and more---it's the worst shots in basketball.

I don't completely agree. Mid range is still a great shot in the NBA playoffs when defenses are given more freedom to actually defend. Obviously u have to do it wisely, But during rs and when refs call everything, yeah I agree just bomb away or drive to basket

[bleeds_purple]

Also he plays for a team that has essentially phased teh mid-range game totally out of the offense to great results. Mid range game can still have a place if you have a Mike or a Dirk who are elite mid-range operators who completely warp defenses and can't be defended one on one. But generally there is a reason teams are moving away from the midrange more and more---it's the worst shots in basketball.

It's the "worst" shot until you realize that in the deeper rounds, against good defensive teams, you are forced to take mostly bad shots especially at the end of a close game. When that time comes, you have to have diversity in your offensive attack. Houston is a one trick pony. They literally just run the same play over and over. That's never gonna get it done when it matters. Good teams will scheme against that and Houston's response is "hey, let's just keep doing that."

For example, on Monday the Kings played a box-and-one against Harden the entire game. When the Houston big set a screen, a wing would come help leaving the big back which resulted into essentially a soft triple team on Harden. Did Pringles make any adjustments to defeat this type of gimmick defense? No. Not even with Westbrook going 13-17 in the game and basically being left wide open. Instead it was non-stop Harden at the top of the key.

[Bergmaniac]

For example, on Monday the Kings played a box-and-one against Harden the entire game. When the Houston big set a screen, a wing would come help leaving the big back which resulted into essentially a soft triple team on Harden. Did Pringles make any adjustments to defeat this type of gimmick defense? No. Not even with Westbrook going 13-17 in the game and basically being left wide open. Instead it was non-stop Harden at the top of the key.

Houston had 118 ORTG in that game, they lost because their defence was terrible, the offense was fine.

[bleeds_purple]

For example, on Monday the Kings played a box-and-one against Harden the entire game. When the Houston big set a screen, a wing would come help leaving the big back which resulted into essentially a soft triple team on Harden. Did Pringles make any adjustments to defeat this type of gimmick defense? No. Not even with Westbrook going 13-17 in the game and basically being left wide open. Instead it was non-stop Harden at the top of the key.

Houston had 118 ORTG in that game, they lost because their defence was terrible, the offense was fine.

Did you actually watch the game or are you just quoting random numbers and passing that off and some type of insight?

[Texas Chuck]

Houston had 118 ORTG in that game, they lost because their defence was terrible, the offense was fine.

Did you actually watch the game or are you just quoting random numbers and passing that off and some type of insight?

might be careful there considering your post above is simply your own personal conjecture about what shots a team can and can't get in a playoff game. My favorite part was your assertion that teams will mostly have to take bad shots.

[bleeds_purple]

Houston had 118 ORTG in that game, they lost because their defence was terrible, the offense was fine.

Did you actually watch the game or are you just quoting random numbers and passing that off and some type of insight?

might be careful there considering your post above is simply your own personal conjecture about what shots a team can and can't get in a playoff game. My favorite part was your assertion that teams will mostly have to take bad shots.

If you can't see the different between "hey, this number says your wrong" and "hey, based on my 25 years of watching this sport, and this particular game start to finish" then I can't help you, bud.