2022-23 NBA Season Discussion

[MartinToVaught]

Kyrie has a cult following of one, himself. Does he even have actual fans anymore? Probably not since Nike didn't hesitate to dump his shoe deal.

[Doctor MJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaughlin takes a much bigger role this season. They need a no-frills table setter at PG, not sure where D'Lo fits in

My thought as well. The playoffs were telling last year. I remember watching and thinking "Russell's back-up looks better than he does", and then saw Russell get benched down the stretch in favor of McLaughlin to me said that the coach saw the same thing and either had the go-ahead to decide whether Russell was the team's point guard, or a massive conflict was going to happen in the off-season.

My guess is that the Timberwolves will now look to move Russell, more of the offense's decision making will go into Edwards' hands, and that McLaughlin will be there to learn how to be an ideal role player around their new core of KAT/Edwards/Gobert.

Of course that could be way jumping the gun. Entirely possible they'll essentially give core-with-Russell a chance this regular season and then make the judgment, but this is the last year of Russell's contract, so they best decide soon what their contingency plans for him are. Hard to imagine they want to keep a player they aren't sure is actually their 4th best player on another contract that pays him $30 mill per year.

[sp6r=underrated]

That would imply new york media cares about the nets?

I thought they literally dont care about their existence and talking about the knicks continuing to be bad gave them more clicks

What was the deal with a-rod and jeter btw? Was not a-rod like tge way, way better player but new york media forced jeter as a goat tier player down everyone throats or somethingh(some baseball people tell this)

Somethingh about playing the better player out of position for jeter ego sake?

The tabloids will see killing Durant as good for business, especially if Tsai has savvy

A-Rod was far better but Jeter was the face of a team that won 4 World Series in 5 years. A-Rod's resulted in the Yankes going 5 years without the pennant/World Series.

And while both possessed movie star looks, Jeter was savvy, while A-Rod

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

So a few things:
1. A-Rod was better. I don't think Yankees fans were ever objectively right in their Jeter love. But Jeter is a no question ATG baseball player. He was not a good player getting undeserved credit.
2. The Aughts Yankees were big disappointments. They had very loaded rosters that failed to achieve. Every year they came with expectations to dominate baseball and never did.
3. I don't think nationality played a role. A-Rod never presented as a foreign player. And Dominican ballplayers have a mucher deeper foothold in American baseball culture than Euros do in American basketball culture. Rivera was beloved and he presented as far more foreign than A-Rod
4. A-Rod's contract was a huge deal. It created enormous expectations that didn't exist on Jeter. He made well over 1.5 times Jeter earnings so fans expected a lot more.

[sp6r=underrated]

Kyrie has a cult following of one, himself. Does he even have actual fans anymore? Probably not since Nike didn't hesitate to dump his shoe deal.

Durant clearly follows him.

[Doctor MJ]

That would imply new york media cares about the nets?

I thought they literally dont care about their existence and talking about the knicks continuing to be bad gave them more clicks

What was the deal with a-rod and jeter btw? Was not a-rod like tge way, way better player but new york media forced jeter as a goat tier player down everyone throats or somethingh(some baseball people tell this)

Somethingh about playing the better player out of position for jeter ego sake?

The tabloids will see killing Durant as good for business, especially if Tsai has savvy

A-Rod was far better but Jeter was the face of a team that won 4 World Series in 5 years. A-Rod's resulted in the Yankes going 5 years without the pennant/World Series.

And while both possessed movie star looks, Jeter was savvy, while A-Rod

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Short answer: Yes and yes.

Now, Jeter was an excellent baseball player to be clear, but he wasn't an MVP level guy. He would not have become anything like the icon he was had he not been on an absolute outlier of a modern baseball dynasty on the biggest sports franchise in American sports history. Among the core group of players there for that whole run, Jeter was the strongest of the field players, good looking, hard working, and seemed to have a clear sense of what not to say in order to be revered rather than judged.

ARod on the other hand had the misfortune of starting with a weak organization, and then being judged for leaving them to go somewhere better, which put two strikes against him...while also developing a Bonds-like reputation for arrogance and selfishness and then testing positive for steroids at a time where the knives were out for all those who dared to try to keep up with what the MLB was letting others do.

If you want to argue that cultural background went into how ARod's personality was perceived compared to Jeter's, I'll certainly listen, but other than that, yeah, you're talking about a textbook case of the worse player landing in the better spot, and that having a profound impact on how the two players would later be perceived.

[sp6r=underrated]

The tabloids will see killing Durant as good for business, especially if Tsai has savvy

A-Rod was far better but Jeter was the face of a team that won 4 World Series in 5 years. A-Rod's resulted in the Yankes going 5 years without the pennant/World Series.

And while both possessed movie star looks, Jeter was savvy, while A-Rod

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Short answer: Yes and yes.

Now, Jeter was an excellent baseball player to be clear, but he wasn't an MVP level guy. He would not have become anything like the icon he was had he not been on an absolute outlier of a modern baseball dynasty on the biggest sports franchise in American sports history. Among the core group of players there for that whole run, Jeter was the strongest of the field players, good looking, hard working, and seemed to have a clear sense of what not to say in order to be revered rather than judged.

ARod on the other hand had the misfortune of starting with a weak organization, and then being judged for leaving them to go somewhere better, which put two strikes against him...while also developing a Bonds-like reputation for arrogance and selfishness and then testing positive for steroids at a time where the knives were out for all those who dared to try to keep up with what the MLB was letting others do.

If you want to argue that cultural background went into how ARod's personality was perceived compared to Jeter's, I'll certainly listen, but other than that, yeah, you're talking about a textbook case of the worse player landing in the better spot, and that having a profound impact on how the two players would later be perceived.

I hate the I was there arguments but I'm going to make one now: A-Rod's cultural background really didn't matter. I listened to WFAN. I went to a baseball mad HS/College/Jobs in the late 90s-aughts.



Mariano is from Panama. He spoke with a very thick accent.

Watch on YouTube

He was beloved in NY. A-Rod sounded like a dude who was born in the US. Most of us thought him as a Florida guy.

Now as to why Jeter became the face of the Yankees a few things:

1. O'Neil was from Cincy so he wasn't the hometown guy. Very popular to this day.
2. Bernie Williams was excellent but he had a lot of Tim Duncan in his personality. He was quite happy to let Jeter have the spotlght.
3. Culture probably did play a role in why Jeter so much larger than Posada and Mariano. But he was a lot better than Posada.
4. Petitte never breaking out didn't make much sense to me.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Durant should get it retired for the Warriors

Okc is weird, because from an achievement standpoint for sure but it’s hard when the entire fanbase hates you and you say they have to do it, making them not want to do it more (he might’ve said it for the Warriors too but they don’t really care)

Yeah and OKC's fanbase hatred for him is unreasonable IMO. He played at an elite level on multiple championship level squads. He also was a good soldier in OKC and never denigrated the franchise or the city the way the some superstars in small towns have. The owners put together a terrible CBA that made it impossible to pay player like KD their deserved share of the cap. That is going to lead to a lot of superstars bolting out of the Oklahomas for Chicagos/Atlantas/SFs and of course NYC/LA.

As examples, Melo thought mgmt., did a poor job building around him in Denver. Which was nuts. He also didn't like living in Denver. I 100% defend him on having a NYC preference. But he was a little too open about it which is a problem. Most fans like living were they do, or they'd move, so a guy acting like your town sucks will piss them off. Dwight Howard burned bridges with kerosene on his way out the door. I'd never hold a ceremony for him.

I'd look at KD's tenure in OKC as a less accomplished version of Kareem in Milwaukee. Neither guy may have particuarly enjoyed their city. But both em gave tons of elite seasons and were mostly respectful.

This is one if I was Owner I'd spend $$$ brainwashing fans to forgive him.

Ehhh, I don’t blame him for leaving but leaving to the Warriors was a pretty lame move, beyond that didnt he start trash talking okc for a hot minute afterwards?

[parsnips33]

I like Warriors getting Divincenzo, guy was a starter on a championship team not 2 seasons ago

[HeartBreakKid]

In regards to OKC retiring Durant's jersey I can't tell if it's being over thought or under thought

- OKC will almost certainly be its own franchise, separate from Seattle. Meaning it is an incredibly young franchise with close to no history by the time Durant retires

- The era of most significance, and arguably of its only real significance was with Durant

- Durant was their first superstar, highprofile prospect and was in the club before they were even OKC

- The Thunder were incredibly popular outside of OKC and this began when Durant was the star, Westbrook was not very popular yet

- He is an MVP and MVP's almost always get their stuff retired - he was their FIRST MVP which certainly means it is getting retired

- They won the Western conference with him and had many deep playoff runs

- He played their for quite a while

- Durant was not "hated" for leaving OKC, he was more "hated" for joining the Warriors - leaving a club in free agency is not some death mark that you will not get your jersey retired, people keep pretending it is but it isn't true



Look at all the retired jerseys and you'll find plenty of guys who were on the hot seat and crapped on by that particular fanbase. Durant is not really anymore "hated" by OKC fans than any other fans. Durant would be seen as a #2 behind Westbrook because of his lack of loyalty and the way his personality is portrayed, but outside of that he's getting retired there - even more guaranteed than GSW which is also going to happen.


Like, retiring a jersey is a sign of prestige not just for a player but the franchise. You want superstars jerseys retired...it makes it look better. Crappy franchsies have little to no jerseys retired, great franchises have many.

And most of all, time heals most wounds. Durant did not do anything irreversible to OKC or GSW. Having an all time great jerseys in the rafters is easily worth it for those franchises, especially OKC where his name will stick out as Westbrook is the only other guy they can (and will) reasonably retire.

[falcolombardi]

The tabloids will see killing Durant as good for business, especially if Tsai has savvy

A-Rod was far better but Jeter was the face of a team that won 4 World Series in 5 years. A-Rod's resulted in the Yankes going 5 years without the pennant/World Series.

And while both possessed movie star looks, Jeter was savvy, while A-Rod

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Short answer: Yes and yes.

Now, Jeter was an excellent baseball player to be clear, but he wasn't an MVP level guy. He would not have become anything like the icon he was had he not been on an absolute outlier of a modern baseball dynasty on the biggest sports franchise in American sports history. Among the core group of players there for that whole run, Jeter was the strongest of the field players, good looking, hard working, and seemed to have a clear sense of what not to say in order to be revered rather than judged.

ARod on the other hand had the misfortune of starting with a weak organization, and then being judged for leaving them to go somewhere better, which put two strikes against him...while also developing a Bonds-like reputation for arrogance and selfishness and then testing positive for steroids at a time where the knives were out for all those who dared to try to keep up with what the MLB was letting others do.

If you want to argue that cultural background went into how ARod's personality was perceived compared to Jeter's, I'll certainly listen, but other than that, yeah, you're talking about a textbook case of the worse player landing in the better spot, and that having a profound impact on how the two players would later be perceived.

The racial thingg was my wild guess, i just heard from my dad once (a big yankees fan in mexico where everyone are dodgers fans but that is a different story) that A-rod was a lot better and thar was odd to me since jeter seems to have been the "jordan" of baseball as far as being the face of tge league

I thought the race thinfg may have been a explanation for it

googled up jeter vs a rod and there was some stufd about advanced stats saying jetwr is the most overated fielder ever and that a-rod was put out of the more inportant fielding position to have jeter there

I will freely admit i have all my baseball knowlesge by pure osmosis, dont know nuch about it outside the basics and some big namea

[Homer38]

Read on Twitter

[sp6r=underrated]

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Short answer: Yes and yes.

Now, Jeter was an excellent baseball player to be clear, but he wasn't an MVP level guy. He would not have become anything like the icon he was had he not been on an absolute outlier of a modern baseball dynasty on the biggest sports franchise in American sports history. Among the core group of players there for that whole run, Jeter was the strongest of the field players, good looking, hard working, and seemed to have a clear sense of what not to say in order to be revered rather than judged.

ARod on the other hand had the misfortune of starting with a weak organization, and then being judged for leaving them to go somewhere better, which put two strikes against him...while also developing a Bonds-like reputation for arrogance and selfishness and then testing positive for steroids at a time where the knives were out for all those who dared to try to keep up with what the MLB was letting others do.

If you want to argue that cultural background went into how ARod's personality was perceived compared to Jeter's, I'll certainly listen, but other than that, yeah, you're talking about a textbook case of the worse player landing in the better spot, and that having a profound impact on how the two players would later be perceived.

The racial thingg was my wild guess, i just heard from my dad once (a big yankees fan in mexico where everyone are dodgers fans but that is a different story) that A-rod was a lot better and thar was odd to me since jeter seems to have been the "jordan" of baseball as far as being the face of tge league

I thought the race thinfg may have been a explanation for it

googled up jeter vs a rod and there was some stufd about advanced stats saying jetwr is the most overated fielder ever and that a-rod was put out of the more inportant fielding position to have jeter there

I will freely admit i have all my baseball knowlesge by pure osmosis, dont know nuch about it outside the basics and some big namea

At a high level, A-Rod was a better hitter and fielder than Jeter. A-Rod was a generational HOFer. If I were to use 1 stat to give you an idea of how great he was I'll use wins above replacement. A-Rod grades out 16th all time in a sport with over a century of respected history. Jeter ranks 94th all time. The difference between the two is 46.3.

Mark Grace, an excellent baseball player, not a perfect comparison point but think someone like Mike Conley. Finished his career at 46.2. It is a chasm between the two.

A-Rod's rep got dinged for unfair reasons. The contract is a really big one. Baseball has no salary cap. In 2009, A-Rod made 33 million. The lowest spending team only spent 36 million. So a lot of guys disliked him too because of how much money he got

[Clyde Frazier]

I know I'm being simplistic here but can KAT play the 4 well enough? And damn minni gave up a lot of picks/swaps. Although that seems to be trending up now vs past years.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

[tsherkin]

Rudy Gobert is a flat out better player than KD.

Is he, ornis he just quieter? A better defender, sure, but KD is also an ATG offensive player with a reasonable track record as number one. The idea that Gobert is clearly superior needs an actual argument.

[Outside]

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaughlin takes a much bigger role this season. They need a no-frills table setter at PG, not sure where D'Lo fits in

My thought as well. The playoffs were telling last year. I remember watching and thinking "Russell's back-up looks better than he does", and then saw Russell get benched down the stretch in favor of McLaughlin to me said that the coach saw the same thing and either had the go-ahead to decide whether Russell was the team's point guard, or a massive conflict was going to happen in the off-season.

My guess is that the Timberwolves will now look to move Russell, more of the offense's decision making will go into Edwards' hands, and that McLaughlin will be there to learn how to be an ideal role player around their new core of KAT/Edwards/Gobert.

Of course that could be way jumping the gun. Entirely possible they'll essentially give core-with-Russell a chance this regular season and then make the judgment, but this is the last year of Russell's contract, so they best decide soon what their contingency plans for him are. Hard to imagine they want to keep a player they aren't sure is actually their 4th best player on another contract that pays him $30 mill per year.

Russell will be hard to move, but if they can get some quality bench depth in return, that would be worth it.

I do have questions about how the new-look Wolves will work. Gobert adds very little offensively and clogs the middle for KAT. Assuming DLo goes, they need someone to replace that offense. Is McLaughlin able to do that on a nightly basis? Will their defensive improvement make up the difference?

Maybe Rudy will do better as a lob threat with this group, but in Utah, my lasting impression is a guy with poor timing and bad hands.

I like the addition of Slow Mo, but he's help,, not a difference maker.

[Colbinii]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

They got fleeced if you think they gave up all that for a non-difference maker [Say Top 25-30 Player].

[HeartBreakKid]

I was telling my friend Gobert to Minnesota would be a great albeit random addition in the NBA last week. I feel like I somehow manipulated reality.

Can't wait to see how it works out with him and Towns. Big guys at PF becoming more of a thing again these days.

[Dr Positivity]

That would imply new york media cares about the nets?

I thought they literally dont care about their existence and talking about the knicks continuing to be bad gave them more clicks

What was the deal with a-rod and jeter btw? Was not a-rod like tge way, way better player but new york media forced jeter as a goat tier player down everyone throats or somethingh(some baseball people tell this)

Somethingh about playing the better player out of position for jeter ego sake?

The tabloids will see killing Durant as good for business, especially if Tsai has savvy

A-Rod was far better but Jeter was the face of a team that won 4 World Series in 5 years. A-Rod's resulted in the Yankes going 5 years without the pennant/World Series.

And while both possessed movie star looks, Jeter was savvy, while A-Rod

Was jeter not just a very good player in a stacked team and a-rod a legitimate all time great?

Are we sure it was not because alex rodriguez was a dominican and jeter an american?

Arod had kind of a weird and fake feeling personality as if he wanted to be liked too much. It’s like Durant’s personality vs Curry I guess but people were probably harder on Arod. The Yankees were a dynasty with Jeter and then stopped the titles when ARod and famously huge contract came which also didn’t help, and he was blamed for playoff chokes until 2009 breakthrough

In general baseball back then just seemed way more important to me and with larger than life personalities like this, Manny, Randy Johnson, etc than now. A sign of its decline.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Did the timberwolves just get fleeced lol that’s what everyone’s saying

They got fleeced if you think they gave up all that for a non-difference maker [Say Top 25-30 Player].

I just saw the details of the deal

I don’t think the vets they got rid of hurt too much, but 5 firsts is a lot, he might end up beating us in the playoffs if I say this but I feel the playoff impact Gobert has been shown to be at least substantially less than his regular season impact especially in certain matchups, so minessotta are probably a great team now but I feel they’ll sputter out in the playoffs