2023-24 NBA Season Discussion

[MartinToVaught]

Lillard is a beloved player around NBA Circles and Fandom. Now that his agent is reaching out to any potential suitors not named Miami and telling those teams they would be getting a disgruntled Lillard, how does everyone feel about him now?

Dame's "loyalty" shtick has always been phony. Real loyalty requires both sides to do whatever it takes to make it work together, even if it means the player has to sacrifice money or role. DRob, Timmy, Dirk, etc. are examples of real loyalty.

Dame's definition of loyalty is "always pay me the maximum amount of money I can get and make whatever moves I want you to make or I'm leaving, and if I'm still ringless in my 30s, I'm still leaving." Which is the exact same mentality he criticizes other players for having, except those guys at least have the honesty to not pretend they're being especially loyal by staying with the team that pays them the most.

People should have realized he was a diva early on when he felt entitled to the All-Star Game every year and would whine in public about not getting in.

I don't even think it makes sense to talk about "loyalty" when you're getting paid like that. People just bought into the branding because they wanted to use it as a stick to beat other players with.

Just the fact that he made the Blazers waste a roster spot on his cousin, who wasn't even G-League caliber, for multiple seasons says it all about Dame. If he was actually loyal, he'd have trusted the Blazers enough to not insist on silly moves like that to "prove" their commitment to him (while refusing to do their front office any favors in return), and he wouldn't have taken advantage of the team's good faith by demanding it.

[LA Bird]

Lillard is a beloved player around NBA Circles and Fandom. Now that his agent is reaching out to any potential suitors not named Miami and telling those teams they would be getting a disgruntled Lillard, how does everyone feel about him now?

I don't usually get into off-court stuff but Lillard singing praises about how loyal he is always seemed suspicious to me, like Dwight talking about him being a super devout Christian. They made such a excessively big deal about it that it just felt like they were trying to project this perfect image of someone they are not. It was certainly a smart business move in the wake of Durant going to the Warriors for Lillard to pick up support so that's understandable but his fans are the worst. There are still people defending his trade request by saying "he's been loyal for so long" and "we can't blame him for wanting to win a ring now". Like, do you even know what loyalty means? If you swear to be loyal to your wife but then cheat on her with a younger and more attractive woman after ten years, do you really expect people to praise you for the times when you didn't cheat? Oh, he was loyal for years, we can't blame him for wanting to get with a younger woman now when he still has a chance. Loyalty means you stay with them through thick and thin, not just when it is convenient for you. If you aren't prepared to make that commitment, you shouldn't have promised loyalty in the first place.

[Texas Chuck]

Just the fact that he made the Blazers waste a roster spot on his cousin, who wasn't even G-League caliber, for multiple seasons says it all about Dame. If he was actually loyal, he'd have trusted the Blazers enough to not insist on silly moves like that to "prove" their commitment to him (while refusing to do their front office any favors in return), and he wouldn't have taken advantage of the team's good faith by demanding it.

Yeah no. He didn't make them. They chose to. Just like the Bucks have employed Giannis' brother who on pure merits isn't worth a roster spot. Just like the Bulls used to employ Jack Haley for Rodman.

This isn't the gotcha you think it is. At all. And Dame has done them tons in return.

[parsnips33]

Has anybody set up a GoFundMe for the Blazers organization yet? I just feel so sorry for them

[Fadeaway_J]

Has anybody set up a GoFundMe for the Blazers organization yet? I just feel so sorry for them

I know you're just being snarky here, but I agree with you in the sense that I'm sure Portland has known what time it is for months. Nothing they've done recently suggests they were really serious about building a competitive team around Dame (which is kind of a quixotic quest at this point anyway).

All of these people do what is in their own interests at the end of the day. "Loyalty" doesn't really enter into it, IMO.

[Doctor MJ]

Lillard is a beloved player around NBA Circles and Fandom. Now that his agent is reaching out to any potential suitors not named Miami and telling those teams they would be getting a disgruntled Lillard, how does everyone feel about him now?

Sigh. Makes me sad. Not like I'm super-surprised things would go like this given that we keep seeing it in the NBA, but makes me sad nonetheless, because I want to see guys come off looking good not bad.

The idea that you would get to demand specifically what team you'll consent to being traded to when you do NOT have a No Trade Clause is just plain ridiculous. That's obviously not what "if you want a trade, we'll work with you" means, and while another player might get the benefit of the doubt in terms of not understanding this, when a guy build his brand around being loyal for so long, well,

he takes a wrecking ball to his brand's reputation.

[MartinToVaught]

Has anybody set up a GoFundMe for the Blazers organization yet? I just feel so sorry for them

I know you're just being snarky here, but I agree with you in the sense that I'm sure Portland has known what time it is for months. Nothing they've done recently suggests they were really serious about building a competitive team around Dame (which is kind of a quixotic quest at this point anyway).

All of these people do what is in their own interests at the end of the day. "Loyalty" doesn't really enter into it, IMO.

This is a common defense I see of Dame's actions: it's the Blazers' fault for actually taking his word for it vis-a-vis "loyalty" and not trading him a while ago. Of course, if they had actually done that, they would have been ripped to shreds. "How can they trade him, he said he was loyal, this is why players aren't loyal anymore," etc. Now, would it have been the right move? Probably, and the outrage would have died down at some point. But instead they chose to trust Dame, and it feels kind of gross to blame them for that. If anything, it makes Lillard look worse for treating them this way.

Another common defense I've noticed - and to be clear, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm just referencing another pro-Dame argument I keep seeing in these discussions - is that it's okay for Dame to force a trade because front offices trade players all the time, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. All nuance is swept under the rug. Like that making roster moves is literally what a front office is hired to do. Or that Lillard is actively sabotaging his own value and has tunnel vision for one specific team while front offices want to do the exact opposite of that when trading a player.

In the aggregate, the pro-player-empowerment stance appears to be that the teams are the bad guys whether they trade someone or not, and star players are always in the right. This is a very odd way of following what's supposed to be a team sport.

[Fadeaway_J]

Has anybody set up a GoFundMe for the Blazers organization yet? I just feel so sorry for them

I know you're just being snarky here, but I agree with you in the sense that I'm sure Portland has known what time it is for months. Nothing they've done recently suggests they were really serious about building a competitive team around Dame (which is kind of a quixotic quest at this point anyway).

All of these people do what is in their own interests at the end of the day. "Loyalty" doesn't really enter into it, IMO.

This is a common defense I see of Dame's actions: it's the Blazers' fault for actually taking his word for it vis-a-vis "loyalty" and not trading him years ago. Of course, if they had actually done that, they would have been ripped to shreds. "How can they trade him, he said he was loyal, this is why players aren't loyal anymore," etc. Now, would it have been the right move? Probably, and the outrage would have died down at some point. But instead they chose to trust Dame, and it feels kind of gross to blame them for that. If anything, it makes Lillard look worse for treating them this way.

Another common defense I've noticed - and to be clear, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm just referencing another pro-Dame argument I keep seeing in these discussions - is that it's okay for Dame to force a trade because front offices trade players all the time, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. All nuance is swept under the rug. Like that making roster moves is literally what a front office is hired to do. Or that Lillard is actively sabotaging his own value and has tunnel vision for one specific team while front offices want to do the exact opposite of that when trading a player.

On aggregate, the pro-player-empowerment stance appears to be that the teams are the bad guys whether they trade someone or not, and star players are always in the right. This feels like a very odd way of following what's supposed to be a team sport.

Not that you're necessarily accusing me of this, but I wouldn’t say Portland is "at fault" here. I just find it hard to believe they were really caught off guard by Dame requesting a trade when he did. That just seems delusional and at odds with how they've been operating lately.

[parsnips33]

Has anybody set up a GoFundMe for the Blazers organization yet? I just feel so sorry for them

I know you're just being snarky here, but I agree with you in the sense that I'm sure Portland has known what time it is for months. Nothing they've done recently suggests they were really serious about building a competitive team around Dame (which is kind of a quixotic quest at this point anyway).

All of these people do what is in their own interests at the end of the day. "Loyalty" doesn't really enter into it, IMO.

This is a common defense I see of Dame's actions: it's the Blazers' fault for actually taking his word for it vis-a-vis "loyalty" and not trading him a while ago. Of course, if they had actually done that, they would have been ripped to shreds. "How can they trade him, he said he was loyal, this is why players aren't loyal anymore," etc. Now, would it have been the right move? Probably, and the outrage would have died down at some point. But instead they chose to trust Dame, and it feels kind of gross to blame them for that. If anything, it makes Lillard look worse for treating them this way.

Another common defense I've noticed - and to be clear, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm just referencing another pro-Dame argument I keep seeing in these discussions - is that it's okay for Dame to force a trade because front offices trade players all the time, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. All nuance is swept under the rug. Like that making roster moves is literally what a front office is hired to do. Or that Lillard is actively sabotaging his own value and has tunnel vision for one specific team while front offices want to do the exact opposite of that when trading a player.

In the aggregate, the pro-player-empowerment stance appears to be that the teams are the bad guys whether they trade someone or not, and star players are always in the right. This is a very odd way of following what's supposed to be a team sport.

I think the notion that there is always gonna be "good guys" and "bad guys" in every contract dispute is wrongheaded. There's no real moral component here - Portland is gonna do what they think is best for Portland and Dame is gonna do what he thinks is best for Dame.

[MartinToVaught]

I know you're just being snarky here, but I agree with you in the sense that I'm sure Portland has known what time it is for months. Nothing they've done recently suggests they were really serious about building a competitive team around Dame (which is kind of a quixotic quest at this point anyway).

All of these people do what is in their own interests at the end of the day. "Loyalty" doesn't really enter into it, IMO.

This is a common defense I see of Dame's actions: it's the Blazers' fault for actually taking his word for it vis-a-vis "loyalty" and not trading him a while ago. Of course, if they had actually done that, they would have been ripped to shreds. "How can they trade him, he said he was loyal, this is why players aren't loyal anymore," etc. Now, would it have been the right move? Probably, and the outrage would have died down at some point. But instead they chose to trust Dame, and it feels kind of gross to blame them for that. If anything, it makes Lillard look worse for treating them this way.

Another common defense I've noticed - and to be clear, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I'm just referencing another pro-Dame argument I keep seeing in these discussions - is that it's okay for Dame to force a trade because front offices trade players all the time, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. All nuance is swept under the rug. Like that making roster moves is literally what a front office is hired to do. Or that Lillard is actively sabotaging his own value and has tunnel vision for one specific team while front offices want to do the exact opposite of that when trading a player.

In the aggregate, the pro-player-empowerment stance appears to be that the teams are the bad guys whether they trade someone or not, and star players are always in the right. This is a very odd way of following what's supposed to be a team sport.

I think the notion that there is always gonna be "good guys" and "bad guys" in every contract dispute is wrongheaded. There's no real moral component here - Portland is gonna do what they think is best for Portland and Dame is gonna do what he thinks is best for Dame.

I agree it's not a moral issue. I'm not saying Lillard is some awful person or anything. But as I've said before, basketball is a social game. How you treat the people around you does matter. Case in point: years of deranged behavior have made it so that Kyrie is only an option for the most desperate teams anymore, because teams in a good position don't want to risk him coming in and single-handedly ruining it.

Dame isn't nearly as toxic, but his next team might not be as eager to cater to his every whim like the Blazers did now that they've seen how that's been rewarded.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Wemby is 1/4 in game 1 of the summer league and I can safely say that wembys offensive ceiling is above al horford

[bigboi]

Wemby reminding me of KAT tbh. Scared of the paint, camp by the 3 all day. People need to stop overrating players’ outside ability when they’re tall. Wemby should be dominating the paint not trying to play like Kobe. He needs to stop studying KD and start studying Jokic, Embiid, Hakeem, etc. play like a big man

[MyUniBroDavis]

Wemby reminding me of KAT tbh. Scared of the paint, camp by the 3 all day. People need to stop overrating players’ outside ability when they’re tall. Wemby should be dominating the paint not trying to play like Kobe. He needs to stop studying KD and start studying Jokic, Embiid, Hakeem, etc. play like a big man

Your a dude built like linguini to bang down low btw, he’s comfortable slashing

It’ll probably be year 3 or 4 where he becomes crazy offensively

[bigboi]

Wemby reminding me of KAT tbh. Scared of the paint, camp by the 3 all day. People need to stop overrating players’ outside ability when they’re tall. Wemby should be dominating the paint not trying to play like Kobe. He needs to stop studying KD and start studying Jokic, Embiid, Hakeem, etc. play like a big man

Your a dude built like linguini to bang down low btw, he’s comfortable slashing

It’ll probably be year 3 or 4 where he becomes crazy offensively

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

[MyUniBroDavis]

Wemby reminding me of KAT tbh. Scared of the paint, camp by the 3 all day. People need to stop overrating players’ outside ability when they’re tall. Wemby should be dominating the paint not trying to play like Kobe. He needs to stop studying KD and start studying Jokic, Embiid, Hakeem, etc. play like a big man

Your a dude built like linguini to bang down low btw, he’s comfortable slashing

It’ll probably be year 3 or 4 where he becomes crazy offensively

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

It’s the combination, you can’t teach that fluidity and shiftiness at that size, but he’s too light, and his jumper isn’t quite good emough

Def some clear concerns and if he doesn’t pan out offensively it wouldn’t be crazy but his ceiling is absurd and always has been

[itsxtray]

Your a dude built like linguini to bang down low btw, he’s comfortable slashing

It’ll probably be year 3 or 4 where he becomes crazy offensively

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

It’s the combination, you can’t teach that fluidity and shiftiness at that size, but he’s too light, and his jumper isn’t quite good emough

Def some clear concerns and if he doesn’t pan out offensively it wouldn’t be crazy but his ceiling is absurd and always has been

Yep, he'll definitely be more impactful on defense long before he's anything special on offense. He's the closest thing to a Dpoy caliber lock we've had in a while. He only needs to be an all-star on offense to be special.

[MyUniBroDavis]

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

It’s the combination, you can’t teach that fluidity and shiftiness at that size, but he’s too light, and his jumper isn’t quite good emough

Def some clear concerns and if he doesn’t pan out offensively it wouldn’t be crazy but his ceiling is absurd and always has been

Yep, he'll definitely be more impactful on defense long before he's anything special on offense. He's the closest thing to a Dpoy caliber lock we've had in a while. He only needs to be an all-star on offense to be special.

There’s a pretty big range offensively of what he can be,I think people giving him a low ceiling are tripping but there’s a big gap between what he can be vs what he is gonna be I think

[MyUniBroDavis]

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

It’s the combination, you can’t teach that fluidity and shiftiness at that size, but he’s too light, and his jumper isn’t quite good emough

Def some clear concerns and if he doesn’t pan out offensively it wouldn’t be crazy but his ceiling is absurd and always has been

Yep, he'll definitely be more impactful on defense long before he's anything special on offense. He's the closest thing to a Dpoy caliber lock we've had in a while. He only needs to be an all-star on offense to be special.

There’s a pretty big range offensively of what he can be,I think people giving him a low ceiling are tripping but there’s a big gap between what he can be vs what he is likely to be I think, although sounds like he has a great head on his shoulders

[bigboi]

He looks like an injury risk with his slashing man. Idk man. I think these scouts need to stop looking for the next KD and start looking for the next Jokic/Embiid. Both players can dribble and shoot but their bread and butter is in the paint and they have elite post moves. Wemby’s lack of post moves and frame are concerning. Even with his hood handle for his size, he honestly isn’t as freaky as Giannis as an athlete nor the shooter that KD is so he won’t be able to rely on driving for buckets

It’s the combination, you can’t teach that fluidity and shiftiness at that size, but he’s too light, and his jumper isn’t quite good emough

Def some clear concerns and if he doesn’t pan out offensively it wouldn’t be crazy but his ceiling is absurd and always has been

Yep, he'll definitely be more impactful on defense long before he's anything special on offense. He's the closest thing to a Dpoy caliber lock we've had in a while. He only needs to be an all-star on offense to be special.

If that’s what he becomes then he’s just an AD. I don’t anticipate him being an iron man in the league. All this forced media hype for another AD?

[bigboi]

Guy’s shooting more 3s than Curry