2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1861 » by Peregrine01 » Mon May 17, 2021 10:32 pm

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Seriously, I now think with Porter we're seeing the signs of a future MVP candidate in his own right, and quite possibly a situation where he gets seen as the "true superstar" of the Nuggets over either Jokic or Murray.

Am I saying this WILL happen? No, not big on prognostication. I see possibilities, nothing more. And I also see the possibility that the Jokic-Porter-Murray triangle never really allows all 3 to be at their best at the same time and this leads to strife. Porter's reputation as a person is on the mend, but I still won't be surprised if the Nuggets end up feeling pressure from Porter to either give him all the things he could want or trade him.

But yeah, I was skeptical of Porter earlier this year, but now I can't be. And when I think about the question of "Who has grown the most in the last 12 months as a player?", the answer is Porter more than it is anyone else.

What I'm also trying to show here is that Jokic is indeed standing out from all his other teammates in a way you might be tempted to see as analogous but lower than Gobert and the Jazz. He's not showing middle-of-the-pack type performance which you get with a putative-star that isn't showing obvious impact. He's showing impact...but Porter appears to be standing out that much more.

As someone who will have Jokic as #1 on his hypothetical MVP ballot as RS end, this is eyebrow-raising to me.


Doc, I'm surprised that you might think this. I've seen the Nuggets play a good amount and Porter to me is an incredibly proficient scorer and an improving defender. However, he doesn't have natural playmaking abilities and I don't think that he'll ever get good enough in that area to become the hub of a great offense. Jokic, IMO, is quite possibly the best passer in NBA history and has proven that he could lead great offenses every year.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1862 » by Doctor MJ » Mon May 17, 2021 11:21 pm

Peregrine01 wrote:
Doctor MJ wrote:
Seriously, I now think with Porter we're seeing the signs of a future MVP candidate in his own right, and quite possibly a situation where he gets seen as the "true superstar" of the Nuggets over either Jokic or Murray.

Am I saying this WILL happen? No, not big on prognostication. I see possibilities, nothing more. And I also see the possibility that the Jokic-Porter-Murray triangle never really allows all 3 to be at their best at the same time and this leads to strife. Porter's reputation as a person is on the mend, but I still won't be surprised if the Nuggets end up feeling pressure from Porter to either give him all the things he could want or trade him.

But yeah, I was skeptical of Porter earlier this year, but now I can't be. And when I think about the question of "Who has grown the most in the last 12 months as a player?", the answer is Porter more than it is anyone else.

What I'm also trying to show here is that Jokic is indeed standing out from all his other teammates in a way you might be tempted to see as analogous but lower than Gobert and the Jazz. He's not showing middle-of-the-pack type performance which you get with a putative-star that isn't showing obvious impact. He's showing impact...but Porter appears to be standing out that much more.

As someone who will have Jokic as #1 on his hypothetical MVP ballot as RS end, this is eyebrow-raising to me.


Doc, I'm surprised that you might think this. I've seen the Nuggets play a good amount and Porter to me is an incredibly proficient scorer and an improving defender. However, he doesn't have natural playmaking abilities and I don't think that he'll ever get good enough in that area to become the hub of a great offense. Jokic, IMO, is quite possibly the best passer in NBA history and has proven that he could lead great offenses every year.


Well I should be clear, I'm not ready to say "Porter is the franchise player". I'm on Team Jokic, and I do consider him possibly the best passer in basketball history.

But Porter scored 20+ PPG on 68% TS after the all-star break in his first full season as a starter, and seemed to be able to do his thing with or without Jokic. That's a big deal, and given that it seems to be accompanied by massive +/-, that's not something I want to dismiss lightly.

I'll put it another way:

Going into his college year, Porter was one of the top 3 high school prospects in the league along with Ayton & Bagley. I think it's pretty clear at this point that Porter should be seen as way ahead of those dudes. While that may not be enough to match Jokic, what I'm seeing here is that the Nuggets really seem to have another superstar on their roster with Porter, and I'll be the first to say I was not expecting this.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1863 » by Dutchball97 » Tue May 18, 2021 9:31 am

Who do you guys have as your All-NBA forwards? I'm pretty set on my order for centers (Jokic/Gobert/Embiid) and guards (Curry/Luka/Dame/CP3/Harden/Kyrie) but the forwards are giving me a little more trouble.

Giannis is undoubtedly first team but after that it becomes one big mess. It's between Butler and Kawhi for that final first team spot for me. After that I have Zion, Randle and LeBron but not sure on the order. I could also see some very legit arguments for Paul George, Tatum and Sabonis. So I'm wondering if anyone has a more clear picture on this.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1864 » by eminence » Tue May 18, 2021 1:37 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:Who do you guys have as your All-NBA forwards? I'm pretty set on my order for centers (Jokic/Gobert/Embiid) and guards (Curry/Luka/Dame/CP3/Harden/Kyrie) but the forwards are giving me a little more trouble.

Giannis is undoubtedly first team but after that it becomes one big mess. It's between Butler and Kawhi for that final first team spot for me. After that I have Zion, Randle and LeBron but not sure on the order. I could also see some very legit arguments for Paul George, Tatum and Sabonis. So I'm wondering if anyone has a more clear picture on this.


Agreed on the order for the C (though I'd be giving Gobert my MVP vote I think it's so close between he/Jokic I want to give them both props and this is one way to do that). I'd flip out Kyrie for Trae Young on the 3rd team guard slot (Conley another I'd give strong consideration, Jrue an HM). Forwards is the toughest. I'd go Giannis/Kawhi 1st team, Butler certainly 2nd. Originally had Randle 2nd, but think I've flipped to LeBron on that. Think I'd go Randle/Tatum for the 3rd squad, but Zion/George/Porter? aren't bad choices. Sabonis I do think would be a pretty questionable choice.

End up with this:

Curry
Luka
Kawhi
Giannis
Jokic

CP3
Dame
Butler
LeBron
Gobert

Young
Harden
Tatum
Randle
Embiid

Flipping Randle/LeBron from my picks a few days ago.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1865 » by Colbinii » Tue May 18, 2021 1:44 pm

Dutchball97 wrote:Who do you guys have as your All-NBA forwards? I'm pretty set on my order for centers (Jokic/Gobert/Embiid) and guards (Curry/Luka/Dame/CP3/Harden/Kyrie) but the forwards are giving me a little more trouble.

Giannis is undoubtedly first team but after that it becomes one big mess. It's between Butler and Kawhi for that final first team spot for me. After that I have Zion, Randle and LeBron but not sure on the order. I could also see some very legit arguments for Paul George, Tatum and Sabonis. So I'm wondering if anyone has a more clear picture on this.


I have Giannis, LeBron, Butler, Kawhi, Zion and George.

The hiccups I have with Paul George is he isn't making anyone better when Kawhi Leonard isn't on the court with him. He isn't a great good passer while he has been okay but inconsistent defensively. I don't have Tatum on because I think the Celtics are in trouble, have been all year, and I needed/wanted to see something from Tatum as a leader which I haven't seen--not to mention the same shortcomings as a playmaker as George has.

Honestly I am probably going to move Sabonis over George and also consider Michael Porter Jr here as well. What Sabonis is doing is ridiculous and it is only consistent for me to reward the playmaking of his like I do with Jimmy Butler and Zion Williamson.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1866 » by MartinToVaught » Wed May 19, 2021 2:52 am

Scott Brooks sticking with having Beal guard Tatum and refusing to adjust is giving me Doc/Trez flashbacks.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1867 » by Dr Positivity » Wed May 19, 2021 2:56 am

Playing Ish/Westbrook/Beal together against Tatum hasn't worked out too well
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1868 » by Fadeaway_J » Wed May 19, 2021 3:17 am

Dr Positivity wrote:Playing Ish/Westbrook/Beal together against Tatum hasn't worked out too well

They really don't have anyone to guard him though.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1869 » by Dutchball97 » Wed May 19, 2021 10:10 am

I love how literally the first day of play-ins has already proven some of the people wrong who claim to know exactly how everything will play out.

Can't wait for some upsets in the play-offs.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1870 » by Clyde Frazier » Wed May 19, 2021 4:03 pm

Didn't realize how well Draymond closed out the year. His last 9 games (warriors went 7-2):

10.4 PPG, 8.9 RPG, 9.9 APG, 1.9 SPG, 1.1 BPG, 69.3% TS, +12.8 avg raw +/-

Can't wait for the game tonight.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1871 » by parsnips33 » Wed May 19, 2021 4:29 pm

What do people see as Tatum's ceiling? He's had a pretty incredible career so far
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1872 » by Colbinii » Wed May 19, 2021 4:40 pm

I'm predicting the Warriors and Spurs to win tonight.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1873 » by CKRT » Thu May 20, 2021 2:04 am

curious if anyone here uses YouTube TV? It's a little pricy but looking for an easier way to watch games then using a bunch of different streams and having to hook my laptop up to the TV. Also curious about stability. I hate how the more popular games are almost guaranteed have me switching streams at some point in the night.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1874 » by eminence » Thu May 20, 2021 3:23 am

Dray's back at it again, masterful defensive 1st half.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1875 » by MO12msu » Thu May 20, 2021 4:01 am

Lakers really need AD to step up here, Bron doesn’t look good physically at all.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1876 » by 70sFan » Thu May 20, 2021 4:43 am

That was quite a game. James clearly wasn't himself throughout the game and yet he did it again when it mattered. Draymond was spectacular on defense, I have mixed feelings about Curry. He went nuclear in the 2nd half, but he had a lot of sloppy turnovers.

I'm glad playoffs (I mean, play-ins :D) are finally there, I missed good basketball :D
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1877 » by Colbinii » Thu May 20, 2021 4:45 am

70sFan wrote:That was quite a game. James clearly wasn't himself throughout the game and yet he did it again when it mattered. Draymond was spectacular on defense, I have mixed feelings about Curry. He went nuclear in the 2nd half, but he had a lot of sloppy turnovers.

I'm glad playoffs (I mean, play-ins :D) are finally there, I missed good basketball :D


Curry had a lot of turnovers but his gravity is so much more than any other player to ever play and it isn't really close.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1878 » by eminence » Thu May 20, 2021 4:53 am

Good game, AD at the 5 is so obvious.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1879 » by Joey Wheeler » Thu May 20, 2021 5:07 am

So it's Suns vs Lakers after all, as expected. This is so, so unlucky for the Suns; honestly believe this'd have been the WCF if they were on opposite sides of the bracket.
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Re: 2020-21 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#1880 » by GSP » Thu May 20, 2021 5:09 am

eminence wrote:Dray's back at it again, masterful defensive 1st half.


Porous 2nd half tho specially on offense he killed the Warriors. He made some great defensive plays but with no more Drummond and Ad at the 5 he wasnt near as effective as the 1st half

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