The Lebron '20 Thread (Pt. 5)

[Dupp]

Giannis played bad tonight to close the game. Don’t blame him for not guarding butler though that’s on BUD. Still by his standards a poor performance and that’s a reason they lost.

[SideshowBob]

You dont get bonus points for setting a screen lmao steven adams isnt the goat

Isn't he though?

[SideshowBob]

New Thread for when this hits 100 pages.

[freethedevil]

Giannis plays efficiently cause Giannis takes great shots. The issue is when he cant get those great shots, like against a good defense in the 4th quarter of the playoffs. Giannis played poorly today for anyone who watched regardless of what the numbers say. It was a 1 point game with like 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter and he failed to generate any good offense

not really sure how you're gonna pull the eyetest card when i was noticing what was happening off of screens and you weren't.

Againt the raptors giannis's effiency plummeted. Against he heat he maintained his effiency His volume going down in one area when it goes up in another doesn't mean he was somehow nuetralized.

Giannis took less shots, but also created alot more than he usually does. If you're going to point out the first, but ignore the second. I coudl care less about you cherrypicking box stats for 5 minuites for a narrative.

Stop ballwatching.

You dont get bonus points for setting a screen lmao steven adams isnt the goat

A screen which creates a bucket because you draw the defense away with your interioir gravity is worth just as much as a kickout from an assist. Adams doesn't createwide open three pointers off his screens, giannis does.

Do you know why curry had a higher impact on teammate effiency than lebron in 2017 despite averaging less assists than durant? It wasn't because he was a better passer.

You don't get bonus points because you create the same result with a different means. Wide open threes are wide open threes, why would i care if it came from an assist or a screen you set?

[freethedevil]

Giannis plays efficiently cause Giannis takes great shots. The issue is when he cant get those great shots, like against a good defense in the 4th quarter of the playoffs. Giannis played poorly today for anyone who watched regardless of what the numbers say. It was a 1 point game with like 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter and he failed to generate any good offense

not really sure how you're gonna pull the eyetest card when i was noticing what was happening off of screens and you weren't.

Againt the raptors giannis's effiency plummeted. Against he heat he maintained his effiency His volume going down in one area when it goes up in another doesn't mean he was somehow nuetralized.

Giannis took less shots, but also created alot more than he usually does. If you're going to point out the first, but ignore the second. I coudl care less about you cherrypicking box stats for 5 minuites for a narrative.

Stop ballwatching.

Giannis isnt being compared to some secondary all-star. He's in convo for best player in the league. If Lebron or Kawhi or Harden or Steph do nothing in a 1 point game for the last 5 minutes,

Kawhi Leonard does not create 13 buckets for his teammates. Kawhi leonard does nor anchor atg defenses. Curry, lebron, harden, are ants defensively when compared to giannis.

I am not comparing giannis to all stars, i am comparing him to superstars who can't do what he does on defense or creatively. Giannis created like he was lebron, while successfulyl stifling the heat inside while often being played as a lone center and with that load mantained effecient scoring. No one you listed can do that, so stop holding them to a lower standard while acting like they're somehow comparable players.

You literally just counted ppg for a 5 minuite stretch and then ran with it. Your analysis is skip bayless tier drivel.

[MyUniBroDavis]

not really sure how you're gonna pull the eyetest card when i was noticing what was happening off of screens and you weren't.

Againt the raptors giannis's effiency plummeted. Against he heat he maintained his effiency His volume going down in one area when it goes up in another doesn't mean he was somehow nuetralized.

Giannis took less shots, but also created alot more than he usually does. If you're going to point out the first, but ignore the second. I coudl care less about you cherrypicking box stats for 5 minuites for a narrative.

Stop ballwatching.

You dont get bonus points for setting a screen lmao steven adams isnt the goat

A screen which creates a bucket because you draw the defense away with your interioir gravity is worth just as much as a kickout from an assist. Adams doesn't createwide open three pointers off his screens, giannis does.

Do you know why curry had a higher impact on teammate effiency than lebron in 2017 despite averaging less assists than durant? It wasn't because he was a better passer.

You don't get bonus points because you create the same result with a different means. Wide open threes are wide open threes, why would i care if it came from an assist or a screen you set?

Dude i just went through the made threes of the game and the threes off of giannis screens were ball screens lmao

The fact that they didnt guard the ball handler like they were lillard doesnt mean that Giannis did anything there literally any big man with a competent roll game couldnt do lol

[MyUniBroDavis]

not really sure how you're gonna pull the eyetest card when i was noticing what was happening off of screens and you weren't.

Againt the raptors giannis's effiency plummeted. Against he heat he maintained his effiency His volume going down in one area when it goes up in another doesn't mean he was somehow nuetralized.

Giannis took less shots, but also created alot more than he usually does. If you're going to point out the first, but ignore the second. I coudl care less about you cherrypicking box stats for 5 minuites for a narrative.

Stop ballwatching.

Giannis isnt being compared to some secondary all-star. He's in convo for best player in the league. If Lebron or Kawhi or Harden or Steph do nothing in a 1 point game for the last 5 minutes,

Kawhi Leonard does not create 13 buckets for his teammates. Kawhi leonard does nor anchor atg defenses. Curry, lebron, harden, are ants defensively when compared to giannis.

I am not comparing giannis to all stars, i am comparing him to superstars who can't do what he does on defense or creatively. Giannis created like he was lebron, while successfulyl stifling the heat inside while often being played as a lone center and with that load mantained effecient scoring. No one you listed can do that, so stop holding them to a lower standard while acting like they're somehow comparable players.

You literally just counted ppg for a 5 minuite stretch and then ran with it. Your analysis is skip bayless tier drivel.

Giannis absolutely does not create like lebron dude thats ridiculous lol. Theres alot more to playmaking ability than gravity and he passed it to the open guy

Giannis is pretty good at playmaking off the drive and in transition but he 100% misses opportunities at times, more so than the better playmakers of the league, while lebrons probably the best at finding cutters in the league, one of the best at running the p and r, best in transition, among the best at playmaking off the drive

[freethedevil]

You dont get bonus points for setting a screen lmao steven adams isnt the goat

A screen which creates a bucket because you draw the defense away with your interioir gravity is worth just as much as a kickout from an assist. Adams doesn't createwide open three pointers off his screens, giannis does.

Do you know why curry had a higher impact on teammate effiency than lebron in 2017 despite averaging less assists than durant? It wasn't because he was a better passer.

You don't get bonus points because you create the same result with a different means. Wide open threes are wide open threes, why would i care if it came from an assist or a screen you set?

Dude i just went through the made threes of the game and the threes off of giannis screens were ball screens lmao

The fact that they didnt guard the ball handler like they were lillard doesnt mean that Giannis did anything there literally any big man with a competent roll game couldnt do lol

What a pointless qualifier. Kawhi Leonard does not create similar chances off of screens. Harden does not. Kevin Durant does not. Lebron does not. And even then that's just dumb hyperbole.

The only players in the league who create off screens like that at all are
-> blake griffen
-> anthony davis
-> bam abedayo
-> Joel Embid
-> Rudy Gobert
-> Draymond

And off them only blake creates more off of screens.

That's like 6 players in the league. This is such a dumb way to frame this. How is what giannis did any less valuable than your average assist? Theoretically speaking mario chalmers can also pass a basketball.

I need a lot more to explain why i should treat one event that leads to an open three, as somehow different than another. Its poitnless pendatry. And, news flash, giannis had 9 assists, 2 of which came from lebron esque, bullet speed, precise no look, layup passes.

Is it that hard to admit giannis did extremely well creating?


Does steven adams create as many scoring oppurtunites as giannis did today? Does kawhi? Does KD? I dont think even harden usually does.

Giannis traded off scoring like shaq for playing like a league best creator for a night. Somehow this means he didn't play well.

[freethedevil]

Giannis isnt being compared to some secondary all-star. He's in convo for best player in the league. If Lebron or Kawhi or Harden or Steph do nothing in a 1 point game for the last 5 minutes,

Kawhi Leonard does not create 13 buckets for his teammates. Kawhi leonard does nor anchor atg defenses. Curry, lebron, harden, are ants defensively when compared to giannis.

I am not comparing giannis to all stars, i am comparing him to superstars who can't do what he does on defense or creatively. Giannis created like he was lebron, while successfulyl stifling the heat inside while often being played as a lone center and with that load mantained effecient scoring. No one you listed can do that, so stop holding them to a lower standard while acting like they're somehow comparable players.

You literally just counted ppg for a 5 minuite stretch and then ran with it. Your analysis is skip bayless tier drivel.

Giannis absolutely does not create like lebron dude thats ridiculous lol.e

He created like lebron tonight. Just like he scored less than 20 tnoight. You're penalizing giannis for a fluctuation in his volume scoring, but not crediting giannis for an increase from his usual creation.

Giannis typically creates like 5-7 oppurtunies and scores 30, Tnought he created 13 chances and scored 18.
You're acting like giannis played like **** when he just played a stylistically different kg-esque game as opposed to his usual hakeem impersonation

[MyUniBroDavis]

A screen which creates a bucket because you draw the defense away with your interioir gravity is worth just as much as a kickout from an assist. Adams doesn't createwide open three pointers off his screens, giannis does.

Do you know why curry had a higher impact on teammate effiency than lebron in 2017 despite averaging less assists than durant? It wasn't because he was a better passer.

You don't get bonus points because you create the same result with a different means. Wide open threes are wide open threes, why would i care if it came from an assist or a screen you set?

Dude i just went through the made threes of the game and the threes off of giannis screens were ball screens lmao

The fact that they didnt guard the ball handler like they were lillard doesnt mean that Giannis did anything there literally any big man with a competent roll game couldnt do lol

What a pointless qualifier. Kawhi Leonard does not create similar chances off of screens. Harden does not. Kevin Durant does not. Lebron does not. And even then that's just dumb hyperbole.

The only players in the league who create off screens like that at all are
-> blake griffen
-> anthony davis
-> bam abedayo
-> Joel Embid
-> Rudy Gobert
-> Draymond

And off them only blake creates more off of screens.

That's like 6 players in the league. This is such a dumb way to frame this. How is what giannis did any less valuable than your average assist? Theoretically speaking mario chalmers can also pass a basketball.

I need a lot more to explain why i should treat one event that leads to an open three, as somehow different than another. Its poitnless pendatry. And, news flash, giannis had 9 assists, 2 of which came from lebron esque, bullet speed, precise no look, layup passes.

Is it that hard to admit giannis did extremely well creating?


Does steven adams create as many scoring oppurtunites as giannis did today? Does kawhi? Does KD? I dont think even harden usually does.

Giannis traded off scoring like shaq for playing like a league best creator for a night. Somehow this means he didn't play well.

Bro they were literally ball screens, literally any scoring threat center setting this screens would have had rhe exact same reaction unless you think defenses trap ball screens by default

[MyUniBroDavis]

Kawhi Leonard does not create 13 buckets for his teammates. Kawhi leonard does nor anchor atg defenses. Curry, lebron, harden, are ants defensively when compared to giannis.

I am not comparing giannis to all stars, i am comparing him to superstars who can't do what he does on defense or creatively. Giannis created like he was lebron, while successfulyl stifling the heat inside while often being played as a lone center and with that load mantained effecient scoring. No one you listed can do that, so stop holding them to a lower standard while acting like they're somehow comparable players.

You literally just counted ppg for a 5 minuite stretch and then ran with it. Your analysis is skip bayless tier drivel.

Giannis absolutely does not create like lebron dude thats ridiculous lol.e

He created like lebron tonight. Just like he scored less than 20 tnoight. You're penalizing giannis for a fluctuation in his volume scoring, but not crediting giannis for an increase from his usual creation.

Giannis typically creates like 5-7 oppurtunies and scores 30, Tnought he created 13 chances and scored 18.
You're acting like giannis played like **** when he just played a stylistically different kg-esque game as opposed to his usual hakeem impersonation

Dude i never said he played like **** lol i said he wasnt great, he doesnt play like either hakeem or garnett at all, and he doesnt create like lebron either, and i didnt exaggerrate at all lmfao

Giannis did NOT create those chances off of screens literally thats not how basketball works lmfao. They arent like "oh well because this center setting the ball screen isnt an all star LETS TRAP EVERY PICK AND ROLL HES INVOLVED IN NO MATTER WHAT

im sorry but this is stupid lmfao assuming were talkjng about the same threes is anyone interested in seeing the screens hes talking about because its literally the most basic bs lol

[MisterHibachi]

Feels like I'm being trolled by Mister I Watch Basketball Better Than You Ever Could.

The league MVP was in a tight playoff game and basically didn't do much on offense to help his team and didn't take a defensive challenge he's more than capable of handling. He had a bad game, it happens. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

[freethedevil]

Dude i just went through the made threes of the game and the threes off of giannis screens were ball screens lmao

The fact that they didnt guard the ball handler like they were lillard doesnt mean that Giannis did anything there literally any big man with a competent roll game couldnt do lol

What a pointless qualifier. Kawhi Leonard does not create similar chances off of screens. Harden does not. Kevin Durant does not. Lebron does not. And even then that's just dumb hyperbole.

The only players in the league who create off screens like that at all are
-> blake griffen
-> anthony davis
-> bam abedayo
-> Joel Embid
-> Rudy Gobert
-> Draymond

And off them only blake creates more off of screens.

That's like 6 players in the league. This is such a dumb way to frame this. How is what giannis did any less valuable than your average assist? Theoretically speaking mario chalmers can also pass a basketball.

I need a lot more to explain why i should treat one event that leads to an open three, as somehow different than another. Its poitnless pendatry. And, news flash, giannis had 9 assists, 2 of which came from lebron esque, bullet speed, precise no look, layup passes.

Is it that hard to admit giannis did extremely well creating?


Does steven adams create as many scoring oppurtunites as giannis did today? Does kawhi? Does KD? I dont think even harden usually does.

Giannis traded off scoring like shaq for playing like a league best creator for a night. Somehow this means he didn't play well.

Bro they were literally ball screens, literally any scoring threat center setting this screens would have had rhe exact same reaction unless you think defenses trap ball screens by default

Not really. The screen-setter needs to be big, and sturdy enough to keep the perimiter defender in question in check, that's why those kind of screens(playing specifically off the pnr threat) are almost ecxlcusively done by bigs. And with giannis, the screens are super effectiev since teams usually save two defenders for his potential lobs while most bigs only get one.

That said this is really not the point here. Klay thompson sets a screen which leads to an open bucket, klay thompson makes a pass that leads to an open bucket. Why is the altter event inherently more valuable than the former.

I'm not understanding why you think the average assist is easier to do then a oppurtunity off a screen or why you think its less valuable. If the value is the same, they should be counted as the same.

[freethedevil]

Feels like I'm being trolled by Mister I Watch Basketball Better Than You Ever Could.

That was you:

anyone who watched the game

The league MVP was in a tight playoff game and basically didn't do much on offense to help his team and didn't take a defensive challenge he's more than capable of handling. He had a bad game, it happens. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

So the league mvp didn't get 9 assists?

Stop trying to pretend that your analysis wasn't literally just off ppg. I gave you a thorough ass explanation for why i thought it wasn't a significant decrease from his usual performance, and you're dodging it. How am I pretending?

And why did you try to pretend that this was somehow a similar situation as the raptors?

[xb3at band1tx]

HOU still spook me with those matchups but if this is the version of Westbrook that's gonna play LA, they got no chance.

[Bidofo]

So we gonna act like Giannis didn't also have 6 turnovers? Also how exactly was he super-efficient? He went 4/12 from the FT line. It was a bad performance offensively speaking.

[freethedevil]

HOU still spook me with those matchups but if this is the version of Westbrook that's gonna play LA, they got no chance.

Westbrook's never been the same since 2017

[mademan]

Read on Twitter

This is not a good game. It's a best player in the league candidate doing this in a tight playoff game against a quality opponent that could very well win the series. Anybody with a claim to best player in the league would be criticized for how poorly they played in the biggest moments.

[freethedevil]

So we gonna act like Giannis didn't also have 6 turnovers?

No, that should be considered, but i would'nt attribute it to his passing.

at least three of those turnovers were from scoring attempts. So yeah, his scoring was worse. However, his creation increased.

So there's three ways to view this.

-> Volume-bias: Giannis created a lot and scored little
-> Effiency bias: Giannis had great effiency on creation, and low effiency on scoring( if you count turnovers against scoring)
-> Effiency bias 2.0: Giannis had okay effiency on creation and good effiency on scoring (if you count turnovers against passing)

And, finally, the most accurate way to view this imp:
-> Giannis createed way more than he usually does on good volume and scored little on meh effiency.

Either way, a holistic analysis credits giannis for improving more than he usually does in one apsect, and having a down game in another aspect. The logical conclision from this is not "he played like ****" or "he can't handle competent playoff defences", its that his game stylistcially changed against a defense that did different things than other defenses.

This also aligns with the team level stats. The bucks shot 40+% from 3, but got absolutely suffocated at the rim. The likely conclusion here is -> creation good, scoring bad.

[freethedevil]

Read on Twitter

This is not a good game. It's a best player in the league candidate doing this in a tight playoff game against a quality opponent that could very well win the series. Anybody with a claim to best player in the league would be criticized for how poorly they played in the biggest moments.

Well we know you wouldn't, because as your refusal to even engage with me suggests, you would give kawhi no **** on his passing(or even his significnatly weaker than giannis defense), no **** to kawhi or kd's creation, and no **** to curry or lebron or kd, or harden's comparatively weak defense.


YOu can spam that stat as much as you want, focusing on scoring want change that giannis created a shitton, thereby debunking your asinine conclusion that he was somehow shut down defensively