Retro POY '96-97 (Voting Complete)

[mysticbb]

@sp6r=underrated

I agree with your deleted post. ;)

[sp6r=underrated]

@sp6r=underrated

I agree with your deleted post.

It was rude so I deleted it.

Do you know why JB was suspended?

[mysticbb]

It was rude so I deleted it.

Probably, but I thought it was somewhat funny. I for sure wouldn't be offended, if someone would make a similar statement about me and Nowitzki for example.

Do you know why JB was suspended?

No, I read that the first time today, because I had little to no time the last couple of days.

[Doctor MJ]

Critical Question

Why was Jordansbulls suspended?

Oh I don't get into that stuff in public.

[sp6r=underrated]

It was rude so I deleted it.

Probably, but I thought it was somewhat funny. I for sure wouldn't be offended, if someone would make a similar statement about me and Nowitzki for example.

Do you know why JB was suspended?

No, I read that the first time today, because I had little to no time the last couple of days.

I noticed there were no JB threads on the PC board so I assumed he was suspended. Sure enough, he was.

[sp6r=underrated]

Critical Question

Why was Jordansbulls suspended?

Oh I don't get into that stuff in public.

Like Stern with the refs, I see.

[bastillon]

Critical Question

Why was Jordansbulls suspended?

Oh I don't get into that stuff in public.

Like Stern with the refs, I see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=EgG9hUiw5Ig

I had the face of Hardison from 0:57 and Parker's reaction from 0:58.

[Optimism Prime]

I wonder how many people have anti-Hakeem bias here. I know about at least 5, so he's gonna be raped in this project.

it'll be interesting how much credit people will give him for stepping up big time in the playoffs. he was consistently a different player in the PS. in 97 you had 0.154 RS WS48 and 0.229 PO WS48. PER: 22.7 -> 27.6.

I've been focusing on the PS throughout entire project and I'm gonna be consistent about it.

Huge Olajuwon supporter here (Houston native, whaddya expect?) but I'd be shocked if I ever put him above Jordan (at least in the years that Jordan won the title)... a LOT of top-3s wouldn't surprise me, and probably a couple number-ones.

[Gongxi]

I wonder how many people have anti-Hakeem bias here.

Are we gonna define that the same way we defined anti-Nash bias? Just not thinking he was as good as you think he was? Probably quite a few people then.

[tha_rock220]

1. Jordan
2. Malone
3. Hakeem
4. Hill
5. Rice

G-Money was a beast of a scorer that year.

[Optimism Prime]

1. Jordan
2. Malone
3. Hakeem
4. Hill
5. Rice

G-Money was a beast of a scorer that year.

...And not much else. 27/4/2/1. Great efficiency on the scoring (.605 TS%), but he was pretty one-dimensional, no?

[mysticbb]

Huge Olajuwon supporter here (Houston native, whaddya expect?) but I'd be shocked if I ever put him above Jordan (at least in the years that Jordan won the title).

1986, 1994, 1995 should be years in which Olajuwon is for sure ahead of Jordan. Especially 1986 when the Rockets made the finals and Jordan was out with that injury. 1994 and 1995 are years in which Olajuwon should be winning the POY, imho.

[Optimism Prime]

Huge Olajuwon supporter here (Houston native, whaddya expect?) but I'd be shocked if I ever put him above Jordan (at least in the years that Jordan won the title).

1986, 1994, 1995 should be years in which Olajuwon is for sure ahead of Jordan. Especially 1986 when the Rockets made the finals and Jordan was out with that injury. 1994 and 1995 are years in which Olajuwon should be winning the POY, imho.

I'd vote myself for POY over Jordan in '94. It's what happens when you don't play.

[mysticbb]

I'd vote myself for POY over Jordan in '94. ;) It's what happens when you don't play.

Uh, didn't know that you played some minutes in the NBA that year. Nice. ;)

[ElGee]

1. Jordan
2. Malone
3. Hakeem
4. Hill
5. Rice

G-Money was a beast of a scorer that year.

...And not much else. 27/4/2/1. Great efficiency on the scoring (.605 TS%), but he was pretty one-dimensional, no?

His team's SRS was 2.13 and he had a solid, although injury plagued, team. The statistical strength was its offense, but Mason was running the team basically and rebounding like a menace (he finished 9th in MVP fwiw). He, Bogues and Vlade probably had a lot to do with those numbers. It's hard to justify someone who was primarily just a shooter as having a greater impact on the game than Pippen, Payton and even guys like Shaq (missed time), Ewing, Penny.

[Silver Bullet]

I wonder how many people have anti-Hakeem bias here. I know about at least 5, so he's gonna be raped in this project.

it'll be interesting how much credit people will give him for stepping up big time in the playoffs. he was consistently a different player in the PS. in 97 you had 0.154 RS WS48 and 0.229 PO WS48. PER: 22.7 -> 27.6.

I've been focusing on the PS throughout entire project and I'm gonna be consistent about it.

I don't have an anti-Hakeem bias - he was a Raptor for a while afterall, so if anything I should be biased for him but Robinson was in my opinion unarguably better.

[shawngoat23]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Karl Malone
3. Grant Hill
4. Hakeem Olajuwon

Not sure about the fifth. I'm trying to decide between Gary Payton, Glen Rice, Tim Hardaway, and Scottie Pippen right now. Maybe even Patrick Ewing or Alonzo Mourning. I think I'll go with Pippen by default if I don't decide by the end of the voting session.

[Gongxi]

Just for posterity's sake, I'm going to say that throughout this thing I'm going mostly by on-court production, with games in December mattering as much as games in March, and games in the playoffs meaning only about 50% more than games in the regular season. Which is to say: if you play 20 playoff games and 82 regular season games, your regular season still accounts for roughly 2/3rds of where I'm placing you. Why? Because a 20 game sample size pales in comparison to 82 or, together, 102 games.

Also, I don't much care about how well your team did. It's basketball, not ping pong- one player can't dictate whether an entire team wins or loses.

As of right now, I'm gonna go ahead with....

1- Michael Jordan
2- Karl Malone
3- Grant Hill
4- Hakeem Olajwuon
5- Scottie Pippen

I feel pretty strongly about the top three, and am pretty content with Olajwon at 4. Pippen can move, I think. Also considering Bug, Ewing, Zo, along with Deke and Stockton. Maybe Payton. No rice for me, thank you.

[Baller 24]

Ehh, I'm a Rockets fan and I'll tell you that Olajuwon was great this year, but Barkley playing on this team really helped glue this team together and mesh really well, they didn't often play that well without him. The Rockets in '97 were 57-25 (70%), but with Barkley they were 41-12 (77%), meaning 16-13 without him (55%), I'm not buying Olajuwon at 3, and I'm a Rockets fan. Jordan and Malone are a respectable 1 and 2 for me, I've got Grant Hill at 3, and Olajuwon probably at 4, still need to look into the 5th one.

[Dr Positivity]

1. Jordan
2. Malone

Pretty clear top 2 for me. Most impressive numbers, all 115 1st place MVP votes went to one of the two, won the most games in the reg. season and went to the Finals against each other where the Mailman didn't deliver and MJ very much did. Just one point about the 97 Bulls regular season - I consider it arguably more impressive than the 96 year. It's one thing to win 72 games with the energy of Jordan's return and Rodman's addition, but to come out in a 'year after', which anything after the 96 season had to be, and to put up the T-2nd best regular season ever with all these players who had nothing left to prove really, is a monster feat. I consider the Bulls and Jordan's most impressive titles to be the last 2 for that reason. There's been teams like the Bad Boys that wore out after 2 title runs. For Chicago to go for one more back to back after winning 4 and getting up there in age, it takes a rare blood

3. Hakeem - Would've been lower if going by regular season performance, but he played really well in the playoffs giving him this spot
4. Shaq - I know he missed games but I can't accept Grant Hill was a better player at 24 than Shaq. Lakers also won more games and went farther in the playoffs so it's not like Hill had a much more successful year.
5. Hill - Great numbers, high MVP love (albeit he was riding a lot of hype at the time), and won 54 games with old Joe Dumars, Lindsey Hunter, old Otis Thorpe and Aaron McKie.

HM: Payton, Pippen, Ewing, Hardaway/Mourning