Player of the Year Voting Thread 2009-10 (Voting Complete)

[Doctor MJ]

Hey guys, I don't think we've had any serious votes that totally leave out LeBron, but I want to warn you guys that I'm kind of on alert with this. People've expressed concerns, and I share them. It's incredibly hard for me to fathom having LeBron not a lock for everyone's top 5 if they're looking at this objectively.

If someone really feels otherwise, they need to point me to some explanation.

[TrueLAfan]

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Nash
5. Durant

[Silver Bullet]

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Nash
5. Durant

Care to explain how Lebron's all the way at three ?

[Dr Positivity]

1. Wade
2. Lebron
3. Kobe
4. Nash
5. Howard

One of Gongxi's posts in the discussion thread made me lean towards Lebron over Kobe. I do think Wade and Lebron are clearly better players than Kobe at this point. They have a step on him. While Lebron deserves to be hugely ostracized for his Celtics meltdown, Kobe had some bad games along the way as well and noteably his 6 for 24. If the Lakers lost that game we would all be killing him for it even more than the Lebron game. Ultimately even if one player's bad night was a result of good d and one was a mental meltdown, it's the results that matter and I've decided I can't criticize Lebron's Game 5 that much more than Kobe's Game 7 just because it came from a mental, not physical source. If Kobe doesn't have the legs anymore to play better in his most important game, that's as much a fault in this case as Lebron not having the head. Kobe's Game 7 was better than Lebron's Game 5, but not by enough to make up for Lebron being better everywhere else.

Wade is close enough to Lebron in on court function, that the latter's problems give Wade the edge though, IMO.

Nash had a fantastic year. Led an elite offense, kept Amare on track, pumped up all those bench guys and led them to career seasons. SSOL was back and they were *this* close.

Howard was probably the 2nd best regular season player. But both the Magic and his offense was not built for the playoffs. The Celtics just played him straight up and guarded the 3pt line. This is the difference between the Magic offense and the old Lakers Shaq offense. Both rely on a big guy creating 3pt shots on the outside, but Shaq's actual offensive ability down low and having him being the guy doing the passing, made it impossible to stop either him or the 3s he creates. Howard's offense preys on weak defenses. In the playoffs it won't cut it.

HM: Durant - First time in the playoffs and it showed. Otherwise would've made it over Howard.

[Dr Positivity]

He might never make a top 5 list, but I think Deron also deserves a big HM this year. He was great. You almost can't ask for more out of a PG between his 10apg passing and pick and roll play, his very good 18ppg scoring and 3pt shooting spacing the floor, and this year he was one of the best at this position defensively too. The nice thing about Deron too is he could probably play with almost any star. Like if the new Heat were Deron, Lebron, and Bosh I'd feel WAY better about the fit, even if they lose something talent wise. Likewise you could put him with Kobe, Howard, Durant, Dirk... it'd probably work with all these guys just because he has that shooting range.

I also agree with a comment someone made once that if Paul was never in the league, we might be talking about Deron as a top 5 player a lot more just from a supply/demand perspective. 20 point, 10apg PGs are crazy rare. If he was the only guy like that in the league and BY FAR the best young PG, I think he'd get big hype for the same reason Dwight Howard does in the C vacuum and would be seen as this rare phenom. Whereas if Howard played in the early 90s he'd be 4th or 5th best and likely in the 'not quite superstar' place Deron is now. It's just a bit of bad luck for DWill's legacy that we got another PG at the same time in Paul who's better and good luck for Howard that he's one of a kind as is

[ronnymac2]

Deron Williams has a decent chance of making my top five.

[TrueLAfan]

1. Wade
2. Kobe
3. LeBron
4. Nash
5. Durant

Care to explain how Lebron's all the way at three ?

Sure. I watched the playoffs.

[RunMCR]

Kobe
Wade
Lebron
Nash
Howard

[NO-KG-AI]

How did Durrant go from near unanimous 2nd to outside the top 5 based on a Wade series ?

I don't get what you are saying with Wade at all, but Durant wasn't near my consensus 2 at any point, he just doesn't bring as much to a team as the other 3 wing players.

[sp6r=underrated]

All season people were debating Howard, Durant and Wade. Durant had by far the worse PS out of those three. Nash was close to that group so I don't think it is all hard to understand bumping him from the top 5.

[Silver Bullet]

How did Durrant go from near unanimous 2nd to outside the top 5 based on a Wade series ?

I don't get what you are saying with Wade at all, but Durant wasn't near my consensus 2 at any point, he just doesn't bring as much to a team as the other 3 wing players.

Wade's series seems to have catapulted him from 4 to 1 - And because people now remember Kobe-Wade-Bron instead of Lebron-Durrant... Durrant has fell off the map because of no fault of his own.

[ElGee]

Going to re-post this from other thread b/c I think it has died.

I'm curious as to everyone's take on this. Found this from an article from the playoffs post game 5. This is the pivotal quarter from game 5 vs. the Celtics. Would people call this a good quarter? Horrible quarter? Good but only OK for James?

Code: Select all

P1: West sets up Andy open J (good).      *James quick touch and pass
P2: Andy passes it into backcourt         *James no touch
P3: West off curl misses in lane v Sheed  *James no touch
P4: James crazy shot v TA in lane (good)
P5: James contested 3 on catch v TA (miss)
P6: Williams contested 3 (miss)           *James no touch (guarded by PP)
P7: James 20 foot fade over Ray (good)
   -James, starts at 15 on clock at line,
   shut off by Ray at 10, Parker open     (pierce left him to go to elbow)
   -James gets it right back at 9 from Mo,
   drives right they call touch foul on Allen
   -James again at 11 seconds, 28 feet away,
   head down, Pierce comes, scores
P8: Jamison drives and scores on KG      *James no touch
P9: Offensive foul on Shaq posting       *James no touch
P10: Parker misses open 3,
   Jamison follow good                   *James no touch
P11: James stripped by Rondo → layup
P12: Williams pass intercepted by Rondo      
   -James doubled in corner and gave it to Mo
P13: James pass tipped by KG,
  jump ball to C's                       *credited TO to Jamison??
P14: Parker misses contested 3           *James no touch
   -Williams misses crazy 2 over Rondo
   (tried to draw foul), Andy gets board
P15: James drives by Rondo and fouled (2-2)
P16: Andy fouled in lane off Mo double (1-2)   *James started at top and
                                                passed to Fish
P17: Parker 1-2 FT after loose ball foul       *James no touch (couldn't)
P18: James (dubious) fouled on 3 by Ray (3-3)
P19: Parker breakaway foul off jump (0-2)      *James pass to Parker
P20: Jamison putback James missed 28 foot fade 3!
P21: James missed 3 v Ray again, Andy putback
P22: James misses fade contested 3 (Williams miss 3 at buzzer)

James: 2-6 FG 5-5 FT 2 TO 0 ast (“10 pos used, 9 points”) **technically 1 TO
Rest of Cavs: 5-11 FG 2-6 FT 3 TO 4 Oreb

G2 or G4 aside (if those are also quibbles), what's your take on this quarter?

[An Unbiased Fan]

Going to re-post this from other thread b/c I think it has died.

I'm curious as to everyone's take on this. Found this from an article from the playoffs post game 5. This is the pivotal quarter from game 5 vs. the Celtics. Would people call this a good quarter? Horrible quarter? Good but only OK for James?

Code: Select all

P1: West sets up Andy open J (good).      *James quick touch and pass
P2: Andy passes it into backcourt         *James no touch
P3: West off curl misses in lane v Sheed  *James no touch
P4: James crazy shot v TA in lane (good)
P5: James contested 3 on catch v TA (miss)
P6: Williams contested 3 (miss)           *James no touch (guarded by PP)
P7: James 20 foot fade over Ray (good)
   -James, starts at 15 on clock at line,
   shut off by Ray at 10, Parker open     (pierce left him to go to elbow)
   -James gets it right back at 9 from Mo,
   drives right they call touch foul on Allen
   -James again at 11 seconds, 28 feet away,
   head down, Pierce comes, scores
P8: Jamison drives and scores on KG      *James no touch
P9: Offensive foul on Shaq posting       *James no touch
P10: Parker misses open 3,
   Jamison follow good                   *James no touch
P11: James stripped by Rondo → layup
P12: Williams pass intercepted by Rondo      
   -James doubled in corner and gave it to Fish
P13: James pass tipped by KG,
  jump ball to C's                       *credited TO to Jamison??
P14: Parker misses contested 3           *James no touch
   -Williams misses crazy 2 over Rondo
   (tried to draw foul), Andy gets board
P15: James drives by Rondo and fouled (2-2)
P16: Andy fouled in lane off Mo double (1-2)   *James started at top and
                                                passed to Fish
P17: Parker 1-2 FT after loose ball foul       *James no touch (couldn't)
P18: James (dubious) fouled on 3 by Ray (3-3)
P19: Parker breakaway foul off jump (0-2)      *James pass to Parker
P20: Jamison putback James missed 28 foot fade 3!
P21: James missed 3 v Ray again, Andy putback
P22: James misses fade contested 3 (Williams miss 3 at buzzer)

James: 2-6 FG 5-5 FT 2 TO 0 ast (“10 pos used, 9 points”) **technically 1 TO
Rest of Cavs: 5-11 FG 2-6 FT 3 TO 4 Oreb

G2 or G4 aside (if those are also quibbles), what's your take on this quarter?

Bad quarter, too much 1 on 5 ball for Lebron when he had the ball, or he wasn't invovled in the play at all. He had 6 shots, and 0 assists with 2 turnovers.

This recap sums it up.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCfpG0aLcuc[/youtube]

[Sedale Threatt]

Wade's series seems to have catapulted him from 4 to 1 - And because people now remember Kobe-Wade-Bron instead of Lebron-Durrant... Durrant has fell off the map because of no fault of his own.

Having a dogisht series against the Lakers didn't help.

And beyond that, speaking strictly for myself, I never put him on the same level as those three, all of whom are much better all-around players. They score about the same, and they do more.

[Doctor MJ]

How did Durrant go from near unanimous 2nd to outside the top 5 based on a Wade series ?

I can only speak for myself.

I had him 3rd in the regular season behind Howard, and ahead of Wade & Kobe. The playoffs clearly put those two ahead of him - but to be clear, it's not so much a "82 games of RS + X games of PS" type thing as it is that the regular season gaps are not that huge, and the playoffs make clear who you'd want to rely on game in and game out on the biggest stage.

So that puts Durant at 5 or lower as a given, and the rest is up for debate. Nash was my #6 in the regular season, and the playoff run most definitely helps him, so it wouldn't be that crazy of a leap for him to slide by Durant as well.

[Doctor MJ]

He might never make a top 5 list, but I think Deron also deserves a big HM this year. He was great.

I don't see any reason why Deron can't make top 5 lists going forward. He's a superb player, and the Jazz will increasingly be his team. Thus far, there have just been other players doing more. It's true that his 1st round series was enough to make you wonder how he isn't clearly in the top 5 - but to me he was clearly below the top 6 in the RS, and leading a team to a 2nd round sweep isn't so extraordinary that I'd forget that.

[shawngoat23]

How did Durrant go from near unanimous 2nd to outside the top 5 based on a Wade series ?

For me, after the regular season it looked like this:
1) LeBron by himself, with no one even close
2-3) Durant/Howard, essentially neck-to-neck, probably a slight edge to Durant though
4) Wade, separated from Durant/Howard, but not by a whole lot, and well ahead of the next two guys
5-6) Kobe/Dirk, pretty much neck-to-neck

So who hurt their stock? Durant, Howard, and Dirk didn't perform especially well, but Howard also had flashes of dominance; LeBron less so, and only if you believe he quit and put in a lot of weight into the intangibles associated with that, and even then, he was heads-and-shoulders above everyone else. Kobe took over quite a few times in the postseason (and when he didn't, he was fortunate enough that his teammates were there to pick up the slack), so he improved his stock the most; plus, winning a ring and a Finals MVP helps improve his case. Wade was also a stud, and probably performed better individually than anyone this postseason, so I'm comfortable with him at #5.

[ronnymac2]

^^^Shawn, how did Dirk hurt his own stock with his performance in the first round? He played great.

[shawngoat23]

^^^Shawn, how did Dirk hurt his own stock with his performance in the first round? He played great.

You are correct, he did perform very well, but his team failed him (and I recognized that at the time). I guess even just one or two months after the fact, I've managed to conflate the two.

I still don't feel he did enough to overtake anyone else in the top 5 though, let alone withstand a strong surge by guys like Nash who I initially had behind him.

[ronnymac2]

Shawn^^^All right. Fair enough.


I reconsidered Dwight's position. I'm giving him the fourth spot. I have to remind myself sometimes that even though he isn't the type of dominant offensive center that roamed the NBA ten to 15 years ago, he's still pretty good on offense. Game Four of the Boston series is an example. His offensive rebounding- which he always does at an all-time level imo- helped take down Boston. Moses Malone made a living that way, and I have tremendous respect for Malone's game. Howard isn't in Malone's class as an offensive rebounder (nobody in history was really), but it still is something valuable. It's an unorthodox way of being a constant source of offense for your team, and it isn't the best way, but it is effective.

He actually showed me something ito scoring on his own against Perkins this year. He was held down a few games and never really required a double team, but he showed that he has got some effective moves- or at least ways of scoring against Perkins.

I'm not going to bring him down a whole lot for his performance in the first two rounds. I wouldn't have elevated him much for dominating those garbage teams, so why would I bring him down much if he only played good but his team demolished them anyway. He did was was necessary. It worked. End of story.

You add all this in with him being by far the best defensive player in the league, a constant force in the middle that wreaks havoc on offenses, and you've got a player worthy of being top four this year imo. If Oden and Bynum don't become defensive powerhouses, Howard should win the next ten DPOYs. Nobody else has an arugment.

Deron Williams will be in my fifth spot. It was Deron vs. Nash for fifth. I chose Williams because I think he's the better player. Pretty simple, right?

I don't think Nash did enough to overtake that. The tiebreakers are too damn close. Yes, Nash played great in the playoffs and had his moments against the champion Lakers. I know full well about that since he scared the **** out of me as a Laker fan. But Deron was phenomenal in the Denver series, outplaying Chauncey Billups and looking like the best player on the floor while Carmelo Anthony was playing, too. IIRC, Deron's performance was historic in a Magic Johnson kind of way.

Against the Lakers, he averaged 22/9 and with ten FTA's per game. I know the percentages won't look so great, but look at each game individually. He was fantastic in game one and gave L.A. a scare by bringing his team back when LA controlled everything for the entire way for the most part. He did struggle a bit in game two. Game three surely wasn't his fault as he dropped an efficient 28/9. His offense was only countered by the number three guy on my list, Kobe Bryant. If it takes Kobe's best effort to exceed what you're doing, you're impressing me. In game four, LA killed Utah, and Deron just tried to shoot a lot to bring the team back from an early deficit. What is he supposed to do when his all-star PF shoots 4-11 while the other team's all-star PF drops 33/14?

In a lot of ways, Nash and Deron were in the same position against the Lakers. They proved how great they were offensively in their respective shots vs.Los Angeles, but their teams were overmatched inside and couldn't slow Bryant down at all. Nash's team pushed it to six games because his guys were better than Deron's.

I actually wanted to put Nash in fifth this time. He's a guy who brings it every night and helps his teammates and displays composure in tough situations while having a "grab a game by the balls" approach. Great player.

Final Rankings:

Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Kobe Bryant
Dwight Howard
Deron Williams

Super-Ultra-Mega-HM: Steve Nash

HM: Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Tim Duncan