Retro POY '67-68 (Voting Complete)

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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#21 » by bastillon » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:15 pm

key things to analyse:

-Lakers record without West.
-Royals without Oscar 3-14... they sucked.
-Wilt's supporting cast - 5 past/present/future all-stars (Jackson, Cunningham, Greer, Chet the Jet, Green), it was a stacked team. no wonder why they won 55 games the next year. Greer, Walker and Cunningham were perennial all-NBA players.
-Russell's supporting cast - 3 past/present/future all-stars (Hondo, Sam Jones, Howell).
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#22 » by penbeast0 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:28 pm

There is one last legit candidate from the ABA. Connie Hawkins had a season for the ages in the ABA’s first year (and his last before knee surgery changed his playing style dramatically). He led the league in scoring, was second in rebounding, third in assists, and 1st in all the advanced metrics like PER (28.8), TSP (.597), Win Shares (17.9 – second was 11.8 and no one else made double figures) while leading a questionably talented Pittsburg team to the best overall record and NBA title as MVP and Finals MVP. Even though the ABA is far below the NBA as a talent collection this year, the Hawk was such a force, he should end up top 5 anyway.

In the NBA, the Sixers were the top regular season team easily (record, SRS, etc.) but in the end it was again the Celtics over the Lakers (yawn!).

Boston was another offensively mediocre, defensive powerhouse led by (gee, I wonder) Bill Russell who added 13/19/5 in stats. Neither Havlicek (inefficient scoring) nor Sam Jones (scoring without the other areas) is a top 5 candidate.

Philly was not only the best RS team, they took Boston to 7 games which no one else did. Wilt was a monster (24/24/9!) and Hal Greer also had his normal terrific season (24/5/5 on .478). Both kept their numbers up in the playoffs too despite the loss to Boston though efficiency slipped a little (and Wilt shot .380 from the line).

LA was the other finalist and league’s 4th best record (2nd best SRS) in a typical Baylor West show. Elgin led the team in shots (22.2) and rebounds (12.2) but West was much more efficient and outscored him on 4 less shots a game to put up 26/6/6 with over .500 from the field and almost 10 trips to the line a game plus superior defense.

The 4th top team in the league were the Hawks although they were upset in the first round. Zelmo Beaty was their biggest scorer at 21/12/2 plus his normal bag of Laimbeer style tricks defensively (despite playing with two other 12+ rebounding PFs who played closer to the basket in Paul Silas and Bill Bridges). Lenny Wilkens came in second in the MVP voting – his rep always was much higher than the player I saw in his later years and I may have missed something but I prefer Z. Beaty’s playoff numbers were fine . . . the whole team was the same, but they couldn’t stop a Warriors team who came in missing their star, Nate Thurmond, but pulled off the upset against the flat Hawks.

No other impressive teams, the most impressive player on a bad team was Oscar again (led the league in scoring and assists per game) but even with Jerry Lucas having a good year, the Royals were mediocre.

Those are my candidates then.

1. Bill Russell – it’s all about the ring baby
2. Wilt – best player, second best team, just couldn’t beat Russ even with equal or better talent
3. West – Mr. Clutch, playoffs put him over Baylor despite RS injuries
4. Oscar – best numbers by a player not named Wilt
5. Connie Hawkins – sort of a sympathy vote since he was kept out of the league until age 27 because his mother was seeing a gambler when he was in HS, and he won MVP in both the ABL (age 19) and ABA’s initial seasons, then destroyed his knee halfway through 69 when they finally were willing to let him into the NBA. He probably was more Baylor’s level at best but deserves the vote more than Beaty’s 1st round loss.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#23 » by ThaRegul8r » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:31 pm

semi-sentient wrote:Russell was rather poor on the offensive end, but the Celtics were once again dominant defensively and won the championship. Hondo's RS isn't that spectacular, but he definitely picked up his play in the post-season. That's going to hurt Russell, to a certain extent.


Russell this year:

Dec. 17, 1967, Russell scored 37 points—equaling his career high—and grabbed 19 rebounds, blocked eight shots and passed for seven assists in a 123-117 win over the Lakers (LA Times, December 18, 1967). March 20, 1968, Boston played without Russell and lost to Detroit 125-116. Coach Dave DeBusschere said, “With Russell not in there, we were able to go to the hoop and take a lot of shots we normally would not be able to.”

Eastern Division Semifinals – Boston Celtics (54-28) vs. Detroit Pistons (40-42)

Game 1 against Detroit, Boston won 123-116. John Havlicek scored 25, Larry Siegfried scored 21, and Russell had 15 points, 34 rebounds and nine assists in what he said “wasn't actually that good a game for me. Normally in a good game, I'd block more shots and wouldn't get in foul trouble” (The Day, March 25, 1968). “The foul trouble came when Russell picked up his fourth personal in the opening minute of the third period, and it almost turned the game around” (The Evening Independent, Mar. 25, 1968).

Detroit won Game 2 126-116. Dave Bing led Detroit with 24, Dave DeBusschere had 23. With 2:46 to play and Detroit leading 114-112, DeBusschere “stole an errant Boston pass and drove in all alone toward the basket and dunked the ball—and missed. Teammate Eddie Miles, though, racing down court, snared the rebound and dropped it in for a 116-112 Piston edge. Detroit outscored the Celtics 8-4 the rest of the way to tie the best-of-seven Eastern Division series at one game apiece” (The Evening Independent, Mar. 26, 1968). “Sam Jones led the Celtics with 18 points and three Boston players, including player-Coach Bill Russell fouled out. The others were Tom Sanders and Bailey Howell. Russell picked up his fifth foul early in the third period and played sparingly until he fouled out late in the fourth along with Sanders and Howell” (The Evening Independent, Mar. 25, 1968).

Detroit won Game 3 in Boston 109-98 to take a 2-1 lead. “Detroit, trailing 52-48 at halftime, outscored Boston 33-15, in the third period to break the game wide open. Dave Bing led the Pistons with 27 points, while Jimmy Walker added 22 and Dave DeBusschere 18” (Reading Eagle, Mar. 28, 1968). John Havlicek had 23 for Boston.

Boston won Game 4 135-110 to tie the series at 2-2. Havlicek, “making one of his rare starts,” scored 35 points (14-26 FG, 7-9 FT), had nine rebounds and nine assists in 46 minutes. Sam Jones had 24, Don Nelson had 22, and Russell had 16 points —“his best point total of the playoffs” (The Deseret News, Mar. 28, 1968) and 21 rebounds. “Trailing 77-71 with 6:10 to go in the third quarter, Russell sparked a 19-point rally to put his team in front 95-86. Russell had eight points and eight rebounds in the burst” (The Evening Independent, Mar. 29, 1968). John Havlicek had 11 in the third quarter, after 18 in the first half. “In the opening minutes of the fourth quarter, the Celtics came to the aid of sharp-shooting Havlicek and raced from a nine-point lead to a 20-point margin in less than fourth minutes. That burst, sparked by Sam Jones’ shooting and Russell’s domination of the boards, buried the cold Pistons” (The Deseret News, Mar. 28, 1968). “It was a game we had to win,” Russell said. “We changed a different set of offensive plays and ran more, especially in the fourth quarter” (The Deseret News, Mar. 28, 1968).

Boston won Game 5 110-96 to take a 3-2 lead.

The Boston Celtics, who built a National Basketball Association dynasty with a run-and-shoot attack, still are counting on the fast break—while showing critics they also know how to check opponents trying the same offense

The Celtics slowed down the Detroit attack and rallied in the second half to defeat the upstart Pistons 110-96 Sunday to take a 3-2 lead in their best-of-7 Eastern Division semifinal playoff.

“They kept us from running and any time you can’t run against the Celtics you’re in trouble,” Detroit Coach Donnie Butcher said. “We couldn’t get the ball out of our backcourt fast enough. When you don’t beat the Celtics down the floor, everything comes hard. You don’t get the good shots.”


Bailey Howell led Boston with 28 points, and had five rebounds. “He was the difference out there,” said Butcher. “He challenged both boards and even when he wouldn’t grab the rebound he would get a piece of it just enough to keep us from running” (The Day, Apr. 1, 1968). Sam Jones had 24, and John Havlicek 18. “I moved into the pivot enabling us to keep the ball moving more,” Russell said. “It helped us to set up better shots, but our offense still was not good enough. I don’t think 110 points is good enough against Detroit, a good team” (The Day, Apr. 1, 1968). Dave DeBusschere led Detroit with 26 points, Eddie Miles and Dave Bing had 18 each, and Jimmy Walker had 16.

Boston won Game 6 111-103 to advance to the Eastern Division Finals, overcoming Dave Bing, who led Detroit with a game-high 44 points:

Detroit had a 24-22 margin at the end of the first quarter, but Boston took a 57-49 halftime lead on the shooting of John Havlicek, who hit 17 of his 20 first-half points in the second quarter.

The Celtics led by as many as 14 points in the second half before Bing hit 16 straight points to cut the margin to six, 85-79, with 32 seconds left in the third quarter.

Bing hit 22 points in the third quarter to snap a Cobo Arena record. His 37 second-half points established a record for the Arena and for the Detroit club.

Bing’s shooting consistently cut the Boston margin to six points in the fourth quarter, but the Celtics rallied each time to hold their lead.


John Havlicek led Boston with 31 points, Sam Jones had 22, and Bill Russell had 15 points and 23 rebounds (The Lewiston Daily Sun, Apr. 2, 1968).

“Russell has matured in his coaching,” said Pistons’ coach Donnie Butcher. “It should be interesting to see him match strategies with Alex Hannum. I think, under the circumstances, the series should go the distance” (Beaver Country Times, Apr. 1, 1968).

Eastern Division Finals – Boston Celtics (54-28) vs. Philadelphia 76ers (62-20)

Boston won Game 1 127-118, John Havlicek with 35 points, Sam Jones with 28, and Bailey Howell with 24. Wilt Chamberlain led Philadelphia with 33 points and 25 rebounds—“but was matched in rebounds by Russell” (The Dispatch, Apr. 6, 1968), Chet Walker had 31, and Chet Walker had 27.

There’s one thing the Boston Celtics want to accomplish this year more than anything. It’s to dethrone the Philadelphia 76ers and regain the National Basketball Association championship.

They got the jump on the 76ers by beating them 127-118 last night in the opening game of the best-of-seven series in the Eastern Division final playoffs. It was a big victory for the Celtics since they did it on the 76ers’ home court in Philadelphia.

[…]

But, the Boston victory almost didn’t come off, Celtics coach Bill Russell explained afterward.

Russell said he and Philadelphia’s Wilt Chamberlain discussed whether or not to postpone the game in deference to the slain Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“We talked about it yesterday afternoon and again after we arrived at the Spectrum for the game,” Russell said, following his team’s triumph in the opener of the best-of-seven games Eastern final.

“We felt that since all these people (14,412) came down to see a game it wouldn’t be right not to play. We knew too that President Johnson had made Sunday a national day of mourning and that the NBA had postponed Sunday’s second game of the series in Boston. We really didn’t feel like playing basketball. Most of us were in a state of shock most of the day.”

In addition to Chamberlain, the 76ers have five other Negroes on the team, while Boston has six besides Russell. The Celtics took a 1-0 edge in their quest to regain the NBA title the 76ers wrested from them last year by shooting 57.8 per cent from the field. “This was the best shooting game for us in a long time,” said Russell. “Our offense penetrated the middle and refused to be intimidated even by Chamberlain.”

John Havlicek’s 35 points led Boston, while Chamberlain’s 33 and 31 by Chet Walker were high for Philadelphia. The 76ers shot 48-for-103 [46.6%] from the field, while the Celtics were 52-for-90 and 23-for-29 [79.3%] at the free-throw line.


Philadelphia won Game 2 115-106. Wally Jones led Philadelphia with 24, Chet Walker had 19, Wilt Chamberlain 15 and 19 rebounds, Hal Greer had 15, Luke Jackson, Johnny Green and Matt Guokas had 11 each, and Billy Melchionni had nine. 76er coach Hannum said Guokas “was just fantastic, he came up with all the loose balls” (The Deseret News, Apr. 11, 1968). Bill Russell had 11 points and a game-high 20 rebounds.

Philadelphia won Game 3 122-114. “Philadelphia blew a 10-point lead before Greer, who had been held to 10 points earlier, got a hot hand” (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 12, 1968), scoring 21 points in the fourth quarter. “Greer shot 8-for-14 from the field as he scored all but 12 of 33 points by the 76ers in the final 12 minutes. The 6-foot-2 guard would up with 31 points” (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 12, 1968). “The Celtics were moving along right well […] for a time, making up a 77-67 deficit to go ahead 93-91, but by then defensive ace Bill Russell, Bailey Howell and Satch Sanders each had five fouls with 10:18 left” (Tri City Herald, Apr. 12, 1968). “That was the key to the game,” Greer said. “With Russell out of there it opened everything up. I just drove the middle and those little jumpers were wide open.” Wilt Chamberlain, “who suffered an injury on the calf muscle of his right leg in the first period,” scored 23 points, 25 rebounds and six assists (Tri City Herald, Apr. 12, 1968). Chamberlain pulled his calf muscle, and the injury “left him limping, but Trainer Al Domenico said it didn’t appear serious” (Tri City Herald, Apr. 12, 1968). Johnny Green—“turn[ing] in another standout relief job for the 76ers” (Sarasota Herald-Tribune, Apr. 11, 1968)—had 17. John Havlicek led Boston with 29. Bill Russell had 13 points and 20 rebounds.

Philadelphia won Game 4 110-105 to take a 3-1 lead. Hal Greer led the Sixers with a game-high 28 points, Chamberlain had 22 points and 16 rebounds, and Luke Jackson and Chet Walker had 22 each. Philadelphia blew a 15-point lead in the second quarter, but scored eight straight points to lead 68-62 at the half. Boston fell behind 79-65 in the third quarter, but pulled within three, 86-83 at the end of the third quarter. But in the fourth quarter up 92-88, Philadelphia scored 11 straight points, including three straight baskets by Luke Jackson, to go up 103-88 with six minutes to play. Sam Jones led Boston with 25, and Russell had 24 points (6-7 FT) and a game-high 24 rebounds.

Boston won Game 5 122-104. “Sam Jones’ 37 points and a fine defensive job by burly Wayne Embry kept the Boston Celtics alive in the National Basketball Association playoffs […]” (The Sun, Apr. 16, 1968). Jones scored 37 points of 15-for-27 shooting from the floor and 7 of 11 from the line. The Associated Press wrote, “He broke the back of the team he describes as the strongest physically he’s ever seen” (Ellensburg Daily Record, Apr. 16, 1968). “When you’re down 3-1,” Jones said, “you just pull up your socks and get the job done” (Ellensburg Daily Record, Apr. 16, 1968). John Havlicek had 29 points and 10 assists, Russell grabbed 24 rebounds and scored eight points.

Philadelphia coach Alex Hannum said, “They came in here with an uphill fight staring them in the face. They were dedicated. They played a great defense, and when they forced us to take bad shots they seemed to get every rebound and take off down the court on the attack” (The Bryan Times, Apr. 16, 1968). “I just told them to go out there and play the kind of basketball I know they’re capable of,” Russell said. “The Celtics made 16 of 26 shots from the field in the final quarter to pull away while the 76ers went completely cold and made only seven of 29 attempts. Philadelphia sank only three of its first 22 shots in the last period” (The Bryan Times, Apr. 16, 1968). Chamberlain had 28 points and 30 rebounds for Boston.

In Game 6, Russell had 17 points (5-7 FT) and a game-high 31 rebounds as Boston won 114-106 to tie the series at 3-3. John Havlicek scored a team-high 28 points, Bailey Howell had 22 (12 in the final 12 minutes), and Sam Jones had 20. “John Havlicek, a tower of strength for the Celtics during the play-offs, and Bill Russell, player-coach, kept Boston in command almost all the way, despite a 40 point performance by Hal Greer of the 76ers. Havlicek, besides directing the Boston attack, scored 28 points. Russell, battling Wilt Chamberlain for rebounds, came away with a personal victory. He pulled down 31, to 27 for Chamberlain. And Bailey Howell had a big hand in the victory, scoring 12 of his 22 points in the last quarter, when the Celtics turned back a strong challenge” (The Milwaukee Journal, Apr. 18, 1968). Hal Greer scored a game-high 40 points on 15-for-24 shooting from the floor (62.5%) and 10 of 13 shooting from the line for Philadelphia in defeat. Chamberlain had 20 points on 6-for-21 shooting from the floor (28.6%) and 8-of-23 shooting from the line (34.8%) and 27 rebounds. “The Celtics played without starting forward Tom Sanders, who is through for the series because of a back injury.” The oddsmakers said that it would be the Celtics’ last game of the season.

[Comment: This explains why Russell had to shift to guard Chet Walker. When Satch Sanders went down with back muscle spasms—putting him out for Games 6 and 7, the Celtics lost the player who'd be guarding Walker. So Russell did what needed to be done for the Celtics to win.]

“The home court doesn’t mean much to these two teams,” said Boston coach Bill Russell. “The team that has a good night wins; it’s as simple as that.” Philadelphia coach Alex Hannum said, “If the Celtics can come in there and beat us they deserve all the credit in the world, because they’re going to be up against a tough basketball team. We worked all season for the home court advantage. We’ve still got it. We’re going to have that crowd yelling for us Friday night” (The Free Lance-Star, Apr. 18, 1968).

Boston won Game 7 100-96 to complete an unprecedented comeback from a 3-1 deficit. Sam Jones led a balanced Boston attack with 23 points, Larry Siegfried had 18, and Bailey Howell had 17 (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 20, 1968). “Celtics player-Coach Bill Russell scored 12 points, grabbed 26 rebounds, and blocked countless shots in what Chamberlain and other 76ers described as a magnificent performance” (Tuscaloosa News, Apr. 17, 1968) [Robert Cherry said he had 10, though I haven't found any corroboration yet], and Chamberlain had 14 points on 4-for-9 shooting from the floor and 6-of-15 shooting from the line and 34 rebounds. “I’m going to tell you something,” Russell said afterwards. “I was never more worried about a game more than this one. It was the seventh and final and away from home. It was a tough situation. But we haven’t won anything yet.”

Robert Cherry wrote,

Hannum admitted he called the plays from the sidelines, so he must share much of the blame for Wilt not getting the ball in the second half. But Hannum isn’t the only culpable party: there are Wilt’s teammates—they shot horribly and didn’t get the ball to him. Some measure of responsibility also must be assigned to Wilt who, after all, was the most dominant offensive player in the history of basketball. Granted he was playing hurt, but that didn’t stop him from gathering [p. 199] 34 rebounds. A leader leads; a scorer wants the ball—particularly in crucial moments. Why didn’t Wilt shout to his mates, “Gimme the damn ball!” He could have said it in a timeout or while foul shots were being taken. Anyone who has ever played basketball knows there are ways to alert your teammates that they’re not getting the ball to you and that you want it. But Wilt didn’t speak up, and he said in other interviews, sometime after the game, that he should have been more aggressive. Why wasn’t he? Could it have been that Wilt wanted to show Hannum, and the world, that if the Sixers weren’t going to throw the ball to him, they weren’t going to beat Boston? It may sound illogical, but who said Wilt was always logical?

It remains inexplicable why Wilt, his coach, and his teammates didn’t make sure that he got the ball.

Instead of Wilt coming to the offensive rescue, Boston completed its stunning comeback. Certainly, Philadelphia’s sports fans, among the most knowledgeable and rabid, have endured their share of disappointment by the city’s professional baseball, football, hockey, and basketball teams. But the collapse in the 1968 Eastern Finals, in which the 76ers botched a three-to-one lead, with two of the final three games at home, ranks with the worst of them.


(cont.)
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#24 » by bastillon » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:36 pm

Oscar Robertson had a fantastic season again, but missed 17 RS games and his team missed the playoffs. In his absence, Lucas put up some pretty ridiculous numbers. I'd be inclined to pick him over Robertson if push came to shove. Certainly two players from a team with a losing record can't possibly make the top 5.


for a team with 3-14 record, it's kind of easy to put up some empty stats.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#25 » by ThaRegul8r » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:49 pm

NBA Finals – Boston Celtics (54-28) vs. Los Angeles Lakers (52-30)

"Havlicek [...] and Bill Russell were the players chiefly responsible for Boston's unprecedented achievement of beating Philadelphia 4-3 after being behind 3-1."

"[...] the Lakers have an excellent chance of becoming the first Western team to win the title in exactly a decade."

[...] the magnificent rebounder, Russell, who has independently destroyed the dreams of many Laker teams in past championships, is again the key. For years the lithe giant has dominated a team with so much talent that it bulldozed the opposition. Now he is suddenly the object of much sentiment. Supposedly a tired old man near the end of his trail, who has known defeat like other mortals, he has managed to bring his own new team of hustlers and scramblers and even castoffs to the brink of one final great success. "The Celtics are a way of life with me," he says, thrusting his goateed chin forward to enforce the point. He has been the way of life for the Celtics as well.


Boston won Game 1 107-101, Russell playing the full 48 minutes, and scoring 12 of his 19 points and grabbing 16 of his 25 rebounds in the second half, in which the Celtics rallied from a 15-point second-half deficit. Boston jumped to a 20-9 lead in the first quarter, but the Lakers pulled to 29-28 at the end of one, and led 61-48 at the half. Boston scored 11 straight points and trailed 85-81 at the end of the third quarter. A Russell offensive rebound and putback tied it at 90, and Sam Jones put the Celtics up to stay at 97-95.

LA won Game 2 123-113, led by Jerry West, who had 35 points. Elgin Baylor had 23, and Tom Hawkins, “coming through in the clutch,” had 19 (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 25, 1968). In the third quarter, the Lakers scored 11 straight points to take a 73-60 lead, after which “[t]he Celtics never got closer than seven points the rest of the way” (St. Petersburg Times, Apr. 25, 1968). John Havlicek led Boston with 24 points, and Don Nelson had 20. Sam Jones had 18, Larry Siegfried 17, and Bill Russell and Bailey Howell had 15 each.

Boston won Game 3 127-119 to take a 2-1 lead, led by Bill Russell, who, as Mal Florence of the LA Times wrote, “rose high above the mere mortals who play the game Friday night and personally took command of the third championship playoff contest.” Russell had a near quadruple double, with 25 points, 16 rebounds, nine assists and nine blocked shots. John Havlicek had 27, Larry Siegfried had 26 in what Russell called “his greatest game as a Celtic,” Sam Jones had 20, and Bailey Howell had 17. Jerry West had 33 and Elgin Baylor 28 for LA. Baylor was held to four in the first half when Boston led 69-62, then Boston outscored LA 24-4 to take an unsurmountable lead.

Jerry West scored 38 points to lead LA to a 118-105 win in Game 4, tying the series at two games apiece. West suffered a sprained left ankle in the final minute, limping off the court with 40 seconds left after a collision with John Havlicek. Elgin Baylor had 30, and Archie Clark had 17 for LA. Bailey Howell led Boston with 24 points, John Havlicek had 23, and Russell had a game-high 22 rebounds, but “looked tired and scored only 11 points. He drew five personal fouls which hampered his defensive play late in the game” (The Dispatch, Apr. 29, 1968).

Boston won Game 5 120-117 in overtime to take a 3-2 lead. John Havlicek scored 31, four in overtime, Don Nelson scored 26—five in overtime, and grabbed 12 rebounds. Boston blew a 14-point fourth-quarter lead. In overtime, Boston trailed 115-113 with less than two minutes remaining when Larry Siegfried grabbed a rebound for a layup to tie the game at 115. Nelson took a rebound and scored to put Boston up 117-115. West nailed a jumper to tie the score at 117 with 56 seconds left, but Havlicek hit a jumper with 38 seconds left. “The Lakers’ Elgin Baylor appeared to get loose for a bucket that would have tied the game. But suddenly Boston player-coach Bill Russell came out of nowhere to block the shot and that was it […]” (Toledo Blade, May 1, 1968). Russell blocked the shot to Don Nelson, who was fouled and made the free throw. “I was guarding Mel Counts and I came off him to block that shot,” Russell said. “Actually, it was a very bad thing to do, but I thought I’d be sneaky, and it worked this time anyway” (Toledo Blade, May 1, 1968). Russell had 22 (6-9 FT) points and 25 rebounds, and Bailey Howell had 20. Jerry West had 35 for LA, Elgin Baylor had 24, Mel Counts had 20—“12 […] in the fourth period surge which tied the game” (Toledo Blade, May 1, 1968).

Boston won Game 6 124-109. John Havlicek had 40 and Bailey Howell had 30. Larry Siegfried had 22, and Russell had 12 points and 19 rebounds, twelve in the first half “as the Celtics virtually won the game by using a fast break with expert precision to jump into a 70-51 halftime lead” (The Dispatch, May 3, 1968). “This is one of the greatest victories of all the championships we’ve won,” Russell said, “because this Celtic team is not one of the most talented teams that I have been on. Havlicek and Howell made the difference and broke the final game open for us” (Herald-Journal, May 4, 1968). Elgin Baylor scored 28, and Jerry West 22 for LA. Mel Counts had a career-high 25 rebounds. Boston shot 49-for-97 from the floor (50.5%) to Los Angeles’ 48-for-101 (47.5%), but were outrebounded 62-55. “That man Russell was the difference,” said Lakers coach Bill Van Breda Kolff.

He came out after the final triumph in a coal-black suit, the coat a frock that was cut slim and long, in the style of another era. With the tall, gaunt, slouch figure, the beard and an old, scarred valise, the silhouette he outlined across the California night made a wildly impressionistic tableau, like Abe Lincoln leaving for Freeport to even up the series with Stephen Douglas. The kids chased after him, reaching out to touch him, to snare the frock for a moment. "Loo-oove him," one of them said loudly, hoarse with awe. Bill Russell, the very epitome of ability and victory in sport, and his Boston Celtics had won again. There were some who just stood on the parking lot and watched till his rented car had gunned down the 400 block of South Prairie Avenue and its taillights had merged into the traffic at the intersection of Manchester Avenue.

Red Auerbach, his coach for so long, had stood in the balcony at the Spectrum in Philadelphia four weeks ago and watched Russell that very same way. Russell had been warming up then for the fifth game against the 76ers. The Celtics were down 3-1 and, despite all the never-say-die bromides that have been tossed around since then, it is doubtful that at that stage anybody truly believed Russell and Boston would go on to their 10th world championship in 12 years. Auerbach himself, at that dark time, lapsed into the past tense. "There are some people," he said, biting off the words because the notion so angered him, "who have already forgotten how great that man really was."
But Russell was about to remind them all. His Celtics beat Philadelphia 4-3, and then last Thursday night in Los Angeles they closed out the Lakers 4-2 in the NBA finals, as Russell achieved a personal accomplishment unique in the history of team sport. Russell coached and he starred but, more than that, as he has for the past 15 years, he positively determined the nature of the game and, in the end, the result. What more is left for him to achieve in his sport? "Well, I don't know, because I never had a goal," Russell said, nodding. "To tell you the truth, it's been a long time since I tried to prove anything to anybody." He paused. "I know who I am," Bill Russell said.

"He is an unbelievable man," Jerry West said, shortly after the Lakers had lost the final game 124-109. "To be frank, we gave them the championship. We gave them the first game and we gave them the fifth. But I take nothing from them. There is something there, something special. For instance, twice tonight the ball went on the floor and Siegfried dove for it. He didn't just go for it hard, he dove for it. And they're all that way on the Celtics, and you can't teach it."

Whatever it is, an aura, a drive, a tradition, it hangs on the Celtics like a fine early dew. It was typical that without warning in the playoffs Don Nelson, a Laker reject who was once waived by every team in the league, would dramatically emerge as a sixth man in the classic Celtic mold, and that John Havlicek, having himself risen in these playoffs from sixth-man stature, would move all the way into the ranks of the NBA superstars.

As the team captain, Havlicek is officially Russell's deputy. He alone stands with Russell, a sidekick, Tonto to his Kemo Sabay, spiriting the offense as Russell does the defense, transmitting Russellian rebuttals and suggestions to the officials.

There has been no such tandem on the Celtics since the halcyon days of Russell and Cousy, and while the reserves played out the last seconds of the final game, Russell sat on the bench with Havlicek and in high glee wrapped a taped hand about his captain's shoulders and hugged him again and again. Sitting together—both tall and thin, long-muscled and angular, similar yet most dissimilar—they were reminiscent of the two happy scotties that adorn a Scotch bottle. Havlicek is as white—a pale sea-shell hue—as his coach is black. Russell's shoulders sag while Havlicek's always remain effortlessly high. Little rivers of perspiration are always dripping down the V that is Russell's face, eventually trickling off the tip of his beard, while everyone marvels at how Havlicek hardly seems to break a sweat. He appears to lose more moisture at the knees, which are forever bloodied, like a little boy's.

Dry and cool, Havlicek is never fazed by having to shift constantly from guard to forward, a move that is the key to Boston's offense. The transition affects only the opposition. When L.A. Coach Butch van Breda Kolff was ejected from the fourth game his only specific parting instructions to his fill-in, Guard Gail Goodrich, were what changes to make when Russell moved Havlicek.

Because Havlicek can play the whole game at top speed and because he can move about the lineup so nimbly, he makes it possible for Russell always to replace whoever is tired or cold with the best man on his bench, regardless of position. Never has a coach had that flexibility. Indeed, using Wayne Embry—who played a vital role against Philadelphia—and Tom Thacker only sparingly, Russell managed to beat the Lakers with one center, two guards, two forwards and Havlicek.

This demands a wise and precise rotation of substitutions, and Russell managed it superbly. There was no repetition of the playoff gaffe last year when he apparently completely forgot that Sam Jones was sitting on the bench in one game.

"Russell did a fine job of coaching this year," Alex Hannum said after the Celtics had eliminated his 76ers. "He is more aware of situations. Some things he did last year—well, I just had to scratch my head at them. There was none of that this season."

Feeling perhaps more secure as a coach, Russell this year was not afraid to solicit Auerbach's opinions occasionally. And, says Havlicek, "right before the season started Russ called a meeting of all the veterans. He closed the door, and he said: 'Look, this is a tough job I have, and I really need your help.' He encouraged us to speak up and make suggestions. There was the feeling last year that we were supposed to do that, too, but it was never explicitly stated to us, and this made a difference."

Coach Russell made it clear, though, that he was prepared to make the final decisions. Russell is more of a disciplinarian than Auerbach was, and Auerbach himself was no Mary Poppins. For example, once this season Coach Russell fined player Russell $500 for getting snowbound and missing a game.

Russell is capable of all kinds of surprises, in fact. The Celtics bounded exuberantly into their locker room after their final victory Thursday night, and even as the screaming and hugging was going on Russell took charge of the premises. He evicted the team owner, Marvin Kratter, his old teammate, Tom Heinsohn, and even a TV technician, who kept pleading that he could not desert his equipment. The intruders dispatched, Russell called for attention and startled his charges by stating that he felt a prayer would be appropriate before any further exultation. He then turned to Bailey Howell, who had scored 30 points and was reveling in his first championship, and Howell led the Celtics in prayer.

Until this final game, a lopsided confrontation, the teams had traded victories in sequence, Boston moving ahead 1-0, 2-1, 3-2, with neither team showing much obeisance to the supposed home-court advantage. In championship play this is an overrated factor anyway, and it was no factor at all on Thursday, when a record playoff crowd at the Los Angeles Forum saw the Lakers turn in their worst game and the Celtics their best.

The Lakers threatened to get into the game only once after Singer Johnny Mathis crossed up the smart money and went to God Bless America instead of The Star-Spangled Banner. That spurt came midway in the first half when Van Breda Kolff sent little (6'1") Goodrich into the backcourt alongside West. Havlicek, who was to score a series high of 40 points in the game, Howell and Larry Siegfried had made all of the Celtic first-quarter points and had rushed Boston in front 28-13. Goodrich got the Lakers running, picked up three layups and a free throw and cut the edge to 39-32 after 90 seconds of play in the second period.

Then Sam Jones came to life and settled the series. In his first six years as a starter with Boston, Jones had never failed to average more in the playoffs than in the regular season, a feat that is rare. But Jones is almost 35 now, and it has been a decade since he started keeping a diary when he arrived on the team. He figured he would only be around a few weeks and it would make interesting reading someday wherever he settled down to teach school. This year his playoff figures fell off, for he has slowed just enough that he can't penetrate for the good shots. He was scoreless in the sixth game when Russell called for a shift of Jones up front, with Havlicek moving back to guard. Goodrich, guarding Jones, now had to move inside, too, and in there is where six-footers die.
Jones got the ball and quickly swished a short shot over Goodrich's stretch. He came right back and banked another in over Goodrich. Immediately Van Breda Kolff's hand was forced, and he had to take out the man who had stirred up his team. It was too late, though, for Sam Jones had switched the momentum to the Celtics. They ran the count to 47-32 before the Lakers called time, and the contest was not at issue after that.

The decisive game was not really this one, anyway. It was the fifth, in Boston. That was the 100th league game for the Celtics, making them the first NBA team to achieve this dubious and debilitating milestone. By then they should have been tired, if not altogether wasted. Since the middle of the first playoff round against Detroit, a series in the distant past that only a few Civil War drummer boys can still recall, Havlicek and Russell had been playing virtually every minute. "I'm a 28-year-old man with a 48-year-old body," Havlicek declared. The Celtics survived only because, it now seems, Russell rested himself near the end of the regular season and restricted his and Havlicek's play to a relatively low 36 minutes a game. Since the NBA penalizes teams that work hard for regular-season success, forcing the first-place finisher to meet the third-place team while the runner-up gets the fourth-place club, and since, for that matter and without all the details, the season is simply horribly long, it can be expected that more teams will bench their stars and thus dilute the regular-season product in the future. Russell's Law is clear: blessed are the rested, for they shall inherit the championship.

The fifth game was an overtime game, a fitting excess. Boston twice had it won, moving to a 19-point lead in the first quarter behind Don Nelson and, after losing all that, to an 18-point margin late in the third quarter. Splendid in their gaudy royal purple road uniforms—the shade is about midway between the color of an overripe plum and the Archbishop of Canterbury's vestments—the Lakers managed to regroup splendidly, and with reserve Center Mel Counts shooting over a momentarily lulled and languid Russell, Los Angeles came back to tie it at 108 on West's layup with 12 seconds remaining.

Late in overtime, West tied it again at 117 all, but Havlicek threw in a 20-foot jumper with 38 seconds remaining. The Lakers now went to Elgin Baylor on the left side. Nelson was guarding him, and Elgin began to yo-yo his old roommate, the classic 1 on 1. Suddenly, with no discernible warning, Baylor whirled to his left and started his shot. It was inches on its way when from out of somewhere, from Commonwealth Avenue or Cape Cod or from 1960, Russell's great arm flew up and swatted the ball to a teammate. Nelson made a free throw a few seconds later that clinched the game 120-117.

Jerry West was at last starting to dress after Thursday's final game when Russell, in his frock coat, toting his ancient suitcase, came out through the crowd and began to break through the waves of people, nodding as the cheers rolled along in his wake. "They can talk about individual players in any sport," West said, now almost alone in defeat, "but I tell you what, when it comes to winning, there is no one like him. Some of these guys in other sports, in baseball and football, I know they're great, but in comparison.... I play this game, and I know. I know. What has this man won? Ten championships. Ten championships in 12 years. Has there ever been anyone like him?"

"I remember they were calling us old when I came in, and that was six years ago," Havlicek had said. "We were fighting that then." Havlicek has now played on more championship Celtic teams than Bill Sharman did, and remember, Sharman's retirement was going to be the first crack in the dynasty. Everybody said so. Now they're all gone but Russell. He has outlasted every player in the league who was there when he came in. Just consider the Celtics who played with him, won their championships and have gone: Cousy, Heinsohn, Frank Ramsey, K. C. Jones, Jim Loscutoff, Andy Phillip, Arnie Risen, Jack Nichols, Gene Conley, Gary Phillips, Carl Braun, Clyde Lovellette, Jack McCarthy, Willie Naulls and Auerbach, too, of course, and Buddy LeRoux, the trainer. The owner, Walter Brown, died, and the owner after him, Lou Pieri. The team was sold and still has gone on, so that now Howell and Embry have their championships with Russell, too.

"Is there any greater tribute in sport than the simple one of being a winner?" West asks. "Is there? This guy here is the greatest of them all."

Russell moved the last steps through the crowd, and there were children there old enough to be out at night, reaching to touch him or just to call out to him, who had not been born when he and the Boston Celtics won their first world championship.


Lots of people commented this season about Russell being a better coach than he was last (his first) season. He got a lot of criticism his first year, which I'll get more into when we get into '66-67.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#26 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:07 am

EDIT -- Reg beat me to some of this already, I see.

I work at the newspaper in San Antonio, and as I suspected, there was no information of note in our archives. The paper didn't print rebounds, assists, shooting totals, not even scores by quarter back then -- just individual points. Game 6 didn't even make it on the front page.

An unintentionally hilarious cutline that I'm sure the non-Chamberlain fans will love: Wilt Chamberlain and the Sixers were losers. It was in specific reference to Game 6, but I thought some would enjoy that.

Cherry, quite correctly in my opinion, concludes of Game 7 in "Wilt: Larger than Life" -- It remains inexplicable why Wilt, his coach, and his teammates didn't make sure he got the ball. The 76ers blew it -- plain and simple.

Couldn't agree more. There's more than enough blame to go around for a catastrophe of that magnitude. Some of the factors that stand out to me:

* The injuries. Wilt had three different leg injuries (hamstring, calf, toe), leading Russell to say, "His leg is hurting him. Everybody knows. A lesser man probably wouldn't be out there."

According to Taylor's "The Rivalry," No. 6 scorer Luke Jackson had a torn hamstring and No. 5 scorer Wali Jones an injured knee. Which is in addition to Cunningham's broken hand, which sidelined him for the entire series. There is no mention in either book of significant injuries suffered by the Celtics.

* The breakdown. Wilt took only two shots in the second half of Game 7. But according to film study by Sixers scout/statistician Vince Miller, Wilt only touched the ball in the post five times in the third quarter and twice in the fourth. He got it 23 times in the first half, which was right around his average of 10-15 touches per quarter according to NBA reporter George Kiseda.

* Wilt admitted in "other interviews" according to Cherry that he should have been more aggressive. This is obvious, but it needs to be mentioned as even Wilt has acknowledged it.

Couldn't agree more because at some point, he should have done something, anything, to get himself more involved. There are no accounts of him saying anything to anyone. But considering a center can't really pass himself the ball, it wasn't entirely his fault, in my opinion. Especially considering:

* Hannum was calling all the plays from the sideline. After the game, he said, "I wanted to play a normal game. We tried to get the ball to the open man. It wasn't intentional that Wilt didn't shoot in the second half. It just worked out that way." He said later, "I never had to ask him to shoot before."

According to Taylor, For the rest of his life, Hannum blamed himself for the defeat. (Which I don't buy. At least, not for the reason he gives. Hannum regretted not having a team meeting to collect the team after MLK's assassination prior to Game 1. They still went up 3-1, so...)

Other tidbits:

*The Sixers shot 37, 37 and 35 percent in the last three games. Boston's defense obviously had a lot to do with that.

Writes Cherry, Russell had 10 blocked shots (in Game 7) and intimidated the 76ers on God knows how many others. The poor shooting against Boston was no aberration. They shot almost 50 percent on the season; against Boston, only 40.

"We played not to make mistakes," Hal Greer said. "We changed our brand of ball. We didn't run the ball when we should have."

Kiseda corroborates this thought with his Game 7 observation, The Celtics had two offensive weapons going for them -- their fast break and outside shooting. The 76ers had no outside shooting and, unbelievably, they did not score one basket on a fast break.

He wrote further, Chamberlain was magnificent on defense and magnificent on the boards. But that wasn't enough, because Russell was magnificent, too. It maybe have been Russell's greatest series against Chamberlain.

Frustratingly, there are no figures given in the book for him. Dipper's posts seem to assert that the two weren't even guarding each other -- or at least, Russell wasn't guarding Wilt -- as the series wore on.

Said Chamberlain, "I thought they (Jones, Havlicek and Russell) were magnificent."

Conversely, Philly's Game 7 supporting cast:

Greer -- 8 for 25
Walker -- 8 for 22
Jackson -- 7 for 17
Jones -- 36 percent, no figures
Guokas -- 2 for 10

* In Game 5, the Sixers shot 2 for 20 at one point in the fourth quarter.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#27 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:18 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:I work at the newspaper in San Antonio, and as I suspected, there was no information of note in our archives. The paper didn't print rebounds, assists, shooting totals, not even scores by quarter back then -- just individual points. Game 6 didn't even make it on the front page.


Irritating. :sigh:

Sedale Threatt wrote:According to Taylor's "The Rivalry," No. 6 scorer Luke Jackson had a torn hamstring and No. 5 scorer Wali Jones an injured knee. Which is in addition to Cunningham's broken hand, which sidelined him for the entire series. There is no mention in either book of significant injuries suffered by the Celtics.


As I mentioned two posts up, Satch Sanders missed the last two games with back spasms, which would then explain the need for Russell to switch to Walker, as, with Sanders down, Boston had no one to guard Walker.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#28 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:24 am

I didn't see that; I am going to give those posts a closer read tmw.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#29 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:32 am

I'm just going to put assorted details from Wilt's season here.

March 8th to March 20th, Chamberlain set an NBA record with a triple double in nine consecutive games:

March 8, 1968 — 21 points, 26 rebounds, 13 assists in a 101-96 win over Boston
March 10, 1968 — 28 points, 27 rebounds, 10 assists in a 119-108 win at New York that clinched the Eastern Division Championship
March 12, 1968 — 22 points, 30 rebounds, 12 assists in a 139-115 win over Chicago
March 13, 1968 — 15 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists in a 130-120 loss to New York. Willis Reed scores 32, and the Knicks outscore the 76ers 37-24 in the fourth quarter
March 15, 1968 — 25 points, 21 rebounds, 13 assists in a 122-115 win over the Baltimore Bullets
March 16, 1968 — 35 points, ? rebounds, 10 assists in a 144-122 win over the Chicago Bulls. He scored 19 in the first quarter
March 18, 1968 — 53 points, 32 rebounds, 14 assists in a 158-128 win over the Los Angeles Lakers. Chamberlain scored 20 in the first half, and 33 in the second
March 19, 1968 — 22 points, 27 rebounds, 19 assists in a 131-130 overtime loss to the Cincinnati Royals. Chamberlain’s last-second fadeaway missed, giving the Royals the win.
March 20, 1968 — 26 points, 17 rebounds, 12 assists in a 137-119 win against the Baltimore Bullets on the last game of the regular season

[Comment: I find it interesting when you think that the closest anyone got to it was in the 1987-88 season, when Jordan recorded a triple double in seven consecutive games from March 25, 1989 to April 6, 1989: 21/12/12 at Seattle; 33/12/11 Mar. 28 vs. Golden State; 32/10/10 Mar. 29 at Milwaukee; 37/10/10 Mar. 31 vs. Cleveland; 27/14/12 Apr. 2 vs. New Jersey; 33/10/12 Apr. 4 vs. Charlotte; and 31/13/10 Apr. 6 at Detroit. But then, Jordan was a guard, while Wilt was a center.]

Chamberlain recorded 31 triple doubles (one every 2.65 games), second all-time behind Oscar Robertson’s 41 in 1961-62.


Eastern Division Semifinals - Philadelphia 76ers (62-20) vs. New York Knicks (43-39)

Chamberlain had a sore toe from his foot being stepped on in the regular-season finale 3/20/68 in a 137-119 win over Baltimore. Chamberlain had 26 points and 17 rebounds (The Dispatch, Mar. 21, 1968).

Philadelphia won Game 1 118-100, led by Chamberlain, who had 37 points, 29 rebounds and seven assists. The Knicks “forged into a 10-point lead early in the third period. But Chamberlain […] started dominating the game in his typical fashion and powered the 76ers to a 118-110 triumph in the first game of the best-of-seven series” (Reading Eagle, Mar. 23, 1968). Wally Jones had 23. Willis Reed led New York with a game-high 38 points, and Dick Barnett had 19.

New York won Game 2 128-117, led by rookie Walt Frazier (The Sun, Mar. 24, 1968). Wilt Chamberlain and Hal Greer led Philadelphia with 24 apiece. (all articles pay-per-view)

Philadelphia won Game 3 138-132 in double overtime. (all articles pay-per-view)

New York won Game 4 107-98 to tie the series at two games apiece. (all articles pay-per-view)

Philadelphia won Game 5 123-105 to take a 3-2 lead. Hal Greer had 38 points, Wilt Chamberlain had 26, and Johnny Green, filling in for Billy Cunningham, had five of his 16 points and grabbed six rebounds in the third quarter (Schenectady Gazette, Apr. 1, 1968). Cazzie Russell led New York with 31.

Philadelphia won Game 6 113-97 to win the series 4-2. Greer had 35 points, 22 in the second half, 13 in the third quarter, which began with Philadelphia trailing 57-56 and ended with Philadelphia leading 86-76 (The Miami News, Apr. 2, 1968). Chamberlain had 25 points and 27 rebounds. “They put pressure on the guards, the same way Boston does, but the Celtics are more successful because they have Bill Russell to back them up,” said Alex Hannum. “Walt Bellamy did a great job for New York, but he’s no Russell on defense” (The Miami News, Apr. 2, 1968).
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#30 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:04 am

fatal9 wrote:If possible, can we see Oscar's team w/ him and w/o him as well? I'm not sure if this information was posted in the last thread.


It was, since this was going to be the next year we'd be looking at:

ThaRegul8r wrote:I'm starting with '68 first, since that's the very next season we'll be looking at, so I wanna get that out in time for voting.

Oscar played 65 games, missed 17. All 17 games are accounted for:

Suffered an injury in San Diego

1) 10/29/67 – 108-99 W @ San Diego. “Oscar Robertson missed the game because of a pulled left thigh muscle suffered Friday night” (The Dispatch, Oct. 28, 1967).
2) 11/1/67 – 101-96 L to St. Louis. “Ask not what the Cincinnati Royals can do without Oscar Robertson. Ask instead when Oscar’s coming back. Hurt in a game over the weekend, Oscar missed Cincinnati’s contest with St. Louis.... The Hawks took advantage of his absence to scored their 10th victory of the season against just one defeat .... Robertson has a thigh injury and may be ready for action again this weekend. The Royals’ shooting suffered mightily without him. Leading 55-48 at halftime, they took nine minutes and 10 seconds to get their first field goal in the third quarter. In all, the Royals got just 12 points in the third period, hitting on only that one shot from the floor out of 23 tries” (Lewiston Evening Journal, Nov. 2, 1967). (1-1)

Robertson played Nov. 4 against LA.

3) 11/7/67 – 113-103 L to Boston. Russell suffered dislocated shoulder late in the second half, popped it into place during halftime, then played all but two minutes of the second half (The Bryan Times, Nov. 8, 1967).
4) 11/8/67 – 122-110 L to Baltimore (1-3)

Robertson returned to action 11/9 against New York, “but sat out from midway through the third period because of a muscle pull” (The Times-News, Nov. 10, 1967).

5) 11/11/67 – 109-108 W @ San Diego. “With Oscar Robertson sitting out the game with a pulled hamstring muscle the Royals got a big lift from rookie Jim Fox” (Chicago Tribune, Nov. 12, 1967)
6) 11/14/67 – 122-102 L @ Philadelphia.
7) 11/17/67 – 120-119 W @ Boston. Hairston led Cincinnati with 26, “minus their injured star, Oscar Robertson, but it was Adrian Smith’s field goal with only four seconds left to play that won for Cincinnati” (The Pittsburgh Press, Nov. 18, 1967). (3-4)

Robertson played 11/22 in a 123-122 W over New York.

11/25 “The Royals played the last 36 minutes without Oscar Robertson” in a 133-123 L to Detroit (NY Times, Nov. 26, 1987).

8) 11/29/67 – 119-99 L to New York. “All 12 players used by the Knicks scored at least two points against the Royals, who were without the injured Oscar Robertson” (The Bryan Times, Nov. 30, 1987).
9) 12/1/67 – 123-109 L to Baltimore. “Robertson sat out the game with a pulled leg muscle” (The Free Lance-Star, Dec. 2, 1967). (3-6)

Robertson returned 12/2 in a 126-110 L to Chicago. “Robertson shook off a knee injury to return to the Royals lineup tonight” (Chicago Tribune, Dec. 3, 1967).

“Robertson was hobbled with a knee injury for the last month and the Royals became everybody’s favorite punching bag” (The Times-News, Dec. 14, 1967)

Robertson injured leg 2/3 against St. Louis.

10) 2/5/68 – 132-129 OT L to Seattle. “The Royals played without Oscar Robertson, sidelined with a pulled leg muscle” (The Pittsburgh Press, Feb. 6, 1968).
11) 2/6/68 – 146-102 L @ LA.“The last time the teams met here Oscar was sidelined because of a leg injury” (LA Times, Feb. 23, 1968).
12) 2/12/68 – 112-104 L to Chicago. “Jerry Sloan’s two jump shots in overtime led the Chicago Bulls to a 112-104 National Basketball Association victory ... over the Cincinnati Royals, who played without Oscar Robertson and scored only five points in over eight minutes at the end. Robertson, suffering from a pulled thigh muscle, stayed in Cincinnati” (Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Feb. 13, 1968).
13) 2/13/68 – 123-111 L to St. Louis. “Hudson wound up with 28 points while Jerry Lucas had 23 for the Royals who once again played without the injured Oscar Robertson” (Beaver Country Times, Feb. 14, 1968). (3-10)

Robertson played 2/15 against Seattle.

2/20, Robertson “aggravated an old leg injury in the opening minutes” of a 126-110 L @ Boston (St. Petersburg Times, Feb. 21, 1968).

14) 2/22/68 – 112-99 L to Baltimore. “The Royals again played without the injured Oscar Robertson” (The Bryan Times, Feb. 23, 1968) (3-10)
15) 2/23/68 – “The Lakers had an easy time with the Cincinnati Royals, who were minus Oscar Robertson, beating them 131-115 at the Forum” (LA Times, Feb. 24, 1968).
16) 2/24/68 – 127-114 L @ San Francisco
17) 2/27/68 – 117-106 L @ Los Angeles (3-14)

Robertson “returned to full-time duty” 2/29 @ San Diego to scored 27 in a 120-114 W (The Milwaukee Journal, Mar. 1, 1968).

In the 17 games Robertson missed, Cincinnati went 3-14 (17.6%).
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#31 » by JordansBulls » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:06 am

Here were your top 5 Players in Win Shares in the playoffs this year.

Win Shares

1. Jerry West*-LAL 3.6
2. John Havlicek*-BOS 2.8
3. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHI 2.5
4. Bailey Howell*-BOS 2.2
5. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 1.9



In the playoffs Russell was 4th on his team in Win Shares and 7th in Win Shares PER 48 Minutes. Also he didn't finish top 5 in MVP voting this year. I'm not seeing how he had a greater impact than even Havlicek overall nor the #1 guy this year.
It would appear that this season and 1969 only it would compare to like ranking Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title and was the defensive anchor on that team.
Just not seeing it.
I know people will point to Frazier over Reed in 1970, however Reed won both league and finals mvp and he and Frazier were relatively close in Win Shares in the season and playoffs. In this case the last 2 years, Havilicek literally had double the playoff Win Shares that Russell had. Not to mention that Havlicek was a more efficient player overall this year as well.

Now I do believe that these were the only two years where Russell was behind his teammates that much in overall production however.


Early Rankings (Maybe final, going out of town, may not have time to revist.)

1. Connie Hawkins - Won League MVP and the Title, Led in win Shares, Win Shares PER 48 Minutes, PPG, PER in the season and playoffs.

2. Wilt Chamberlain - League MVP, Led in Win Shares, Win Shares PER 48 Minutes, PER, RPG, APG in the season, 3rd in Win Shares in the playoffs, 4th in Win Shares PER 48 Minutes, 3rd in PER in the playoffs.

3. Oscar Robertson - 2nd in Win Shares, 2nd in Win Shares PER 48 Minutes, 2nd in PER

4. John Havlicek - 2nd Team All NBA, 2nd in Playoff Win Shares, 1st in Playoff Points

5. Bill Russell - Won Title, but didn't much else.


HM: Elgin Baylor, Jerry West missed too many games this year to be considered.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#32 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:24 am

Gonna be hard for West to make my list. Missing 31 games is... a lot. Without a guy like Baylor the Lakers miss the playoffs this year. Like the Royals who couldn't survive just 17 missed from Oscar

On the other hand Baylor's looking good. Dropped a 26/12/5 and 28/14/5 in the playoffs and had team results with Lakers staying afloat without West + posting #1 ORTG, then making the Finals

Start of the HUGE! Oscar statistical years, albeit this one is tarnished a bit by his 65 games. Still - led the league in points while shooting 50% and being the league's best FT line player, led the league in assists, + 6rpg and clearly had big ORTG impact. A grouch, but still epic

My preliminary list is Russell, Wilt, Oscar, Baylor, Havlicek in that order
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#33 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:26 am

JordansBulls wrote:It would appear that this season and 1969 only it would compare to like ranking Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title and was the defensive anchor on that team.
Just not seeing it.


With all due respect, it's completely ridiculous to equate Russell to Ben Wallace. I've seen too many people do this, and before Wallace came into his own, it was Dikembe Mutombo everyone was using. Wallace did NOT have the same impact Russell did. It's not even debatable.

JordansBulls wrote:I know people will point to Frazier over Reed in 1970, however Reed won both league and finals mvp


Irrelevant. It's debatable as to whether he actually deserved regular season MVP (my vote goes to West—Reed actually had a better case in '68-69) and he DID NOT deserve Finals MVP. I don't care what he got. He didn't deserve it. Speaking for myself, I will not give credit for an undeserved award. I don't give Reed credit for the '70 Finals MVP (Frazier was the MVP), and I do not give Magic credit for the 1980 MVP (Kareem was the MVP). I evaluate things for myself, not just blindly accept whatever happened. If it's legit, then fine. If it isn't, then I'm not going along with it.

JordansBulls wrote:and he and Frazier were relatively close in Win Shares in the season and playoffs.


Frazier led in virtually every advanced metric, both regular season and postseason. As I said before, if it didn't matter then, I don't know why it would suddenly matter now, especially considering the impact neither player had.

JordansBulls wrote:In this case the last 2 years, Havilicek literally had double the playoff Win Shares that Russell had. Not to mention that Havlicek was a more efficient player overall this year as well.


As the team captain, Havlicek is officially Russell's deputy. He alone stands with Russell, a sidekick, Tonto to his Kemo Sabay[...]


Not to take anything away from Havlicek. And as I said before, Russell and Havlicek were Boston's top two performers in the Finals. Russell actually had a better Final statistically than he did the last one we looked at.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#34 » by penbeast0 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:28 am

ThaRegul8r wrote:As I mentioned two posts up, Satch Sanders missed the last two games with back spasms, which would then explain the need for Russell to switch to Walker, as, with Sanders down, Boston had no one to guard Walker.


John Havlicek, who many consider one of if not the greatest defensive SF to ever play, is now considered no one? Or is Walker just that guy with his number (which happens sometimes even to the best)? Curious
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#35 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:30 am

penbeast0 wrote:
ThaRegul8r wrote:As I mentioned two posts up, Satch Sanders missed the last two games with back spasms, which would then explain the need for Russell to switch to Walker, as, with Sanders down, Boston had no one to guard Walker.


John Havlicek, who many consider one of if not the greatest defensive SF to ever play, is now considered no one? Or is Walker just that guy with his number (which happens sometimes even to the best)? Curious


So who guards Greer? He just had 40.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#36 » by ElGee » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:32 am

JordansBulls wrote:Here were your top 5 Players in Win Shares in the playoffs this year.

Win Shares

1. Jerry West*-LAL 3.6
2. John Havlicek*-BOS 2.8
3. Wilt Chamberlain*-PHI 2.5
4. Bailey Howell*-BOS 2.2
5. Elgin Baylor*-LAL 1.9



In the playoffs Russell was 4th on his team in Win Shares and 7th in Win Shares PER 48 Minutes. Also he didn't finish top 5 in MVP voting this year. I'm not seeing how he had a greater impact than even Havlicek overall nor the #1 guy this year.
It would appear that this season and 1969 only it would compare to like ranking Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title and was the defensive anchor on that team.
Just not seeing it.
I know people will point to Frazier over Reed in 1970, however Reed won both league and finals mvp and he and Frazier were relatively close in Win Shares in the season and playoffs. In this case the last 2 years, Havilicek literally had double the playoff Win Shares that Russell had. Not to mention that Havlicek was a more efficient player overall this year as well.

Now I do believe that these were the only two years where Russell was behind his teammates that much in overall production however.


Apologies if this has been asked before, but why do you value win shares so much?

re: Havlicek. Is that conclusion based on something other than WS? The MVP voters, coaches, peers, writers and fans at the time all believed if Russell was removed the Celtics would be a non-factor and with him they practically never lost. No one ever said that about Havlicek. (That is, indeed, what happened in 1970 when Hondo stayed and Russell left).

Havlicek was the 6th man, who was comparable to a number of players in the league in role. There was no one in the league comparable to Russell. And the Ben Wallace comparison doesn't seem accurate because he had a smaller defensive impact than Russell, was an absolute offensive liability and didn't coach the team.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#37 » by JordansBulls » Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:34 am

ThaRegul8r wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:It would appear that this season and 1969 only it would compare to like ranking Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title and was the defensive anchor on that team.
Just not seeing it.


With all due respect, it's completely ridiculous to equate Russell to Ben Wallace. I've seen too many people do this, and before Wallace came into his own, it was Dikembe Mutombo everyone was using. Wallace did NOT have the same impact Russell did. It's not even debatable.



Again, I'm not saying Russell is the same as Ben Wallace, I am saying that they both anchored the defense on great defensive teams. If you look, Ben Wallace on that Detroit team had better overall numbers than Russell did on the Celtics in 1968 and 1969. I am just saying these two years in particular. Before that time Russell was clearly the best except the year maybe Cousy won MVP on the C's.
All I am saying is that voting Russell #1 this year because he won the title would be similar to voting Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title. Difference is is that Wallace was higher in Production on his own team, then Russell was on his team those 2 years.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#38 » by ThaRegul8r » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:04 am

JordansBulls wrote:
ThaRegul8r wrote:
JordansBulls wrote:It would appear that this season and 1969 only it would compare to like ranking Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title and was the defensive anchor on that team.
Just not seeing it.


With all due respect, it's completely ridiculous to equate Russell to Ben Wallace. I've seen too many people do this, and before Wallace came into his own, it was Dikembe Mutombo everyone was using. Wallace did NOT have the same impact Russell did. It's not even debatable.



Again, I'm not saying Russell is the same as Ben Wallace, I am saying that they both anchored the defense on great defensive teams. If you look, Ben Wallace on that Detroit team had better overall numbers than Russell did on the Celtics in 1968 and 1969. I am just saying these two years in particular. Before that time Russell was clearly the best except the year maybe Cousy won MVP on the C's.
All I am saying is that voting Russell #1 this year because he won the title would be similar to voting Ben Wallace #1 in 2004 because he won the title. Difference is is that Wallace was higher in Production on his own team, then Russell was on his team those 2 years.


:sigh:

Obviously your mind is made up, but it's seeming to me that you just look at basketball-reference and use that to make your decision. Other people want to look deeper. The entire reason I've posted my summaries is to look deeper and provide something just looking at basketball-reference can't tell you. To provide context.

Wallace did not have a Finals series in 2004 that Russell did in 1968. I'm sure you've seen the summaries I've posted. Show me something that shows that your comparison is valid, that shows me that you came to that conclusion after considered thought, rather than a simple, misinformed preconception. Show me something that Ben Wallace did on the court that you can't find on basketball-reference that validates your assertion. Give me sources which back you up, as I've done and will continue to do for the remainder of the time I'm involved in this project.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#39 » by bastillon » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:47 am

the difference is that Wallace didn't have impact Russell had, on either end of the floor. according to multi-year APM, Ben was Pistons' 3rd best player, after Billups and Rasheed. while this group of guys was really great together regardless of his presence, Celtics without Russell weren't a playoff team, which was evident as soon as he was off the floor.

see, the problem with WS or actually ESTIMATED WS (because these are just estimations, not the real WS, which became available only after '77) is that they have no clue about what to do with the defense. there are numerous examples of that. not only boxscore stats have no clue about the defense, but also the data itself is limited. now for example DWS for '68:

7.8 - Russ
4.9 - Hondo
4.5 - Howell
3.2 - Sam Jones
2.9 - Sanders
2.9 - Don Nelson
2.6 - Embry

now if you believe that Hondo and Howell had more combined defensive impact than Russell or that Sam Jones, Don Nelson and Howell (or poor defenders at this point) somehow are better than Bill on defense then that's fine, but if you do, you're an idiot.

Russell was very clearly responsible for Celtics dominance. there is tangible evidence to that Russell is responsible for about half of their DWS... and I'm still probably shortchanging his impact. so that would give Russell about 17-18 DWS and overall more than 20 WS. that'd be more accurate.

so far example Celtics had
33 DWS in '68
40 DWS in '69
21.4 DWS in '70, after he retired.

which seems more likely: that Russell had 8-10 DWS what his estimated DWS suggests or that he had more like 20 DWS which figures if you look at his team defense after he left ? to me it's a no brainer that Russell was responsible for at least half of their defense and assuming that he was mere 25% in DWS, like what the boxscore is telling you, is ridiculous.

and there's no rocket science, man. simple math: Russell had 10 DWS in '69, 0 DWS in '70 (since he didn't play) and players who replaced him combined for 4.2 DWS, then his team THEORETICALLY should lose about 6 DWS when in fact it lost 20 DWS. pretty big difference, huh ?

so that's the problem with your reasoning. while boxscore may provide you with some useful data in terms of offensive performance, it has no shot at measuring the defense. since Russell's dominance is measured in team DRtg and there is tangible evidence pointing to him being responsible for ~20 DWS, then there is really nobody who could compete with Russell in terms of individual dominance.

and for the record, Ben Wallace is nowhere near 20 DWS, whether you look at his +/- or his boxscore production, you won't come up with anything near that number.
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Re: Retro POY '67-68 (ends Fri morning) 

Post#40 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Aug 31, 2010 4:09 am

Yeah WS's became really rough to use in this period. They use rebounds to help estimate blocks, and assists to help estimate steals. It's incredibly problematic.

My thoughts in general on #1 this year:

I see Wilt as the absolute clear regular season MVP, and if it's a matter of some bad luck & a little slump in the playoffs, I'm inclined to give him the nod for #1.

However, the 76ers didn't lose to just anyone - they lost to the team they always lose to, with Wilt once again having problems against them, put everything into the realm of debate. I'll definitely be debating Wilt/Russell here.
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